Show Us Your Books Scuttled By Stan Lee 2 2

[Jesse-Lee]

On 8/16/2021 at 10:06 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Yes understandable. I bought these raw for at most $30 a piece. When attempting this it still takes wisdom and patience to pick copies

But really I'm happy! The most I have in is $250 for each slab, so "if" they were to be sold, a mere sale for $300 on Ebay to break even.

Now given your "rules" do you think they'd sell? That's "a" reason why some do higher grade. For neal Adam's books at least, the lower grades havent been worth subbing long if at all. So, if you commit, nows the time

 

I honestly think they're really cool looking, but I personally wouldn't buy them unless I got what I felt was a good deal. And if I was looking to add either to my collection (which I am actually looking to add a Bat 234 at some point), I wouldn't buy a Signature Series, regardless of grade. But again, that's just me. And if I ran across a 2.5 copy of 234 that I got for a deal raw? I'd probably at least consider getting a sig on that and still hunting for a mid- to higher-grade blue label for sure.

[Math Teacher]

On 8/16/2021 at 9:07 PM, Randall Ries said:

Aw yeah. That's a beaut. Marvel chipping and a beautiful, latter day Stan Lee sig. There was even someone here wanting to buy this book.

I have seen a lot worse signature placements by Stan Lee.

[Randall Ries]

On 8/16/2021 at 11:07 PM, shadroch said:

Why would you disappoint a fan who was willing to shell out big bucks to stand in line and get your signature?  We get it. You think signing on covers ruins the books. Obviously many people disagree with you, and  calling them dolts  and doofs is sad.  You are a grown man who collects kiddie books but you think people whose taste is slightly different are some class of sub-humans.  Getting Stan and Joe to "scuttle" my Avengers 4 is one of my favorite memories and possessions. 

That isn't what I said at all. Before I dive in head first: If I were a famous Silver/Bronze Age artist and someone slid me a mint copy of a key book and asked me to draw a cameo all over the cover, I would refuse. But that's just me. No amount of money I could be paid to wreck a pristine copy of a key book. Sayeth I: "Get your mother to sign it. Or Stan Lee. I hear he would sign his own death certificate were it presented to him at a comic book 'Bazaar.'"

Court stenographer?

"Yes. The record says you said: "I have many SS books. I like a well place signature. Not on keys, though. Especially high grade keys.'

Correct. And?

"Stan flung his signature everywhere and added globs of what I guess is supposed to be a spider on a Spiderman book....Someone paid them to do it, sure"

Let the record show that

A: I like a well placed signature as an owner of "many SS books."

B: My main complaint was the decimation of a FF#1 Why? Because not only was it signed (Fair enough), the doof who had it signed also had him add the trite phrase "Flame On!". If THAT wasn't enough, Stan Lee wrote "Flame On!" over one of the word balloons.

A few posts later, I clarified and compared by way of Neal Adams and fan requests to draw cameos along with a signature all over high grade examples of books that are REALLY hard to find in high grade. Bat #227 in 9.6, for example.

We CAN SPECULATE that many fans do this to add to the resale value of these books. Or! ARE THEY ACTUAL FANS? Or are they speculators and profiteers misreading what a buyer might actually purchase?

In conclusion, I submit anyone who submits a NM-M copy of a hard to find, low pop, key book to have signed and drawn on is in fact a doofus and a dolt. Or someone with no for taste aesthetics. CAN they or do they have the right to do whatever they want with their property? Yes. Is it a good idea? Not on your life. Generations from now, collectors will comment:

"Who is the doofus who had Neal The Great or Stan The Creator Of The Historical Documents draw all over the 9.6's and add their own two cents?"

[grendelbo]

On 8/16/2021 at 8:02 PM, kav said:

the day will come when collectors highly value books that were unscribbled on by anyone.

 

On 8/16/2021 at 8:14 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

But I can't help but cringe a little when I see a key or a mega-key book in a signature series. It just hurts my soul a little...

 

On 8/16/2021 at 8:37 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

I feel like it'd be ruining what is a nearly pristine copy of an already scarce book. Like it does a disservice to future collectors or those who wish they had an unblemished copy, regardless of if it's the author's autograph.

 

IMO, our hobby in the future will not be kind to our Signature Series history and this era where we are defacing classic, key and often rare or high grade comicbooks. Sign the back cover and still enjoy it in a slab. Sign the splash page and enjoy it raw or take a pic of the interior signature before it's entombed. Bronze or earlier should be off limits.

Peace & love. ☮️

Get them signed if you want though. It's just not for me. Not this way.

 

[HighVoltage]

On 8/16/2021 at 7:57 PM, kav said:

In my opinion every book scribbled on by stan lee wwas scuttled.  

You'd be wrong.

[HighVoltage]

On 8/17/2021 at 7:46 AM, Randall Ries said:

That isn't what I said at all. Before I dive in head first: If I were a famous Silver/Bronze Age artist and someone slid me a mint copy of a key book and asked me to draw a cameo all over the cover, I would refuse. But that's just me. No amount of money I could be paid to wreck a pristine copy of a key book. Sayeth I: "Get your mother to sign it. Or Stan Lee. I hear he would sign his own death certificate were it presented to him at a comic book 'Bazaar.'"

Court stenographer?

"Yes. The record says you said: "I have many SS books. I like a well place signature. Not on keys, though. Especially high grade keys.'

Correct. And?

"Stan flung his signature everywhere and added globs of what I guess is supposed to be a spider on a Spiderman book....Someone paid them to do it, sure"

Let the record show that

A: I like a well placed signature as an owner of "many SS books."

B: My main complaint was the decimation of a FF#1 Why? Because not only was it signed (Fair enough), the doof who had it signed also had him add the trite phrase "Flame On!". If THAT wasn't enough, Stan Lee wrote "Flame On!" over one of the word balloons.

A few posts later, I clarified and compared by way of Neal Adams and fan requests to draw cameos along with a signature all over high grade examples of books that are REALLY hard to find in high grade. Bat #227 in 9.6, for example.

We CAN SPECULATE that many fans do this to add to the resale value of these books. Or! ARE THEY ACTUAL FANS? Or are they speculators and profiteers misreading what a buyer might actually purchase?

In conclusion, I submit anyone who submits a NM-M copy of a hard to find, low pop, key book to have signed and drawn on is in fact a doofus and a dolt. Or someone with no for taste aesthetics. CAN they or do they have the right to do whatever they want with their property? Yes. Is it a good idea? Not on your life. Generations from now, collectors will comment:

"Who is the doofus who had Neal The Great or Stan The Creator Of The Historical Documents draw all over the 9.6's and add their own two cents?"

You'd be wrong.

[HighVoltage]

On 8/17/2021 at 7:04 AM, Math Teacher said:

I have seen a lot worse signature placements by Stan Lee.

For that cover - that's actually a very good sig placement.

[The Lions Den]

Call me crazy, but I can see both sides of this argument.  

For instance, RR recently posted some nice Neal Adams sig series books. I thought those were actually pretty tasteful since the signatures were neatly placed and didn't detract from the cover art. But there are other times when the signature (or other doodling) obscures the artwork and is a bit of an eyesore, IMO... 

 

 

[BigLeagueCHEW]

I like my Stan Lee signature books. Nothing wrong with SS if it is in the right location.

 

[BigLeagueCHEW]

On 8/16/2021 at 6:57 PM, kav said:

In my opinion every book scribbled on by stan lee wwas scuttled.  

Your ugly

[Qalyar]

On 8/17/2021 at 11:29 AM, The Lions Den said:

Call me crazy, but I can see both sides of this argument.  

For instance, RR recently posted some nice Neal Adams sig series books. I thought those were actually pretty tasteful since the signatures were neatly placed and didn't detract from the cover art. But there are other times when the signature (or other doodling) obscures the artwork and is a bit of an eyesore, IMO...

Here's my take on it.

I don't collect Signature Series books. My personal collection is all raws and blue labels (and a couple weird manufacturing defects in green but that's not the point...). I don't begrudge people getting most books signed. Like those ASM 298 and 299s just posted? Those are cool books. They're not what I collect, but I collect weird anyway. I have absolutely no problem with them.

I have problems with Sig Series books when one -- or more -- of the following is true:

• Someone gets cute and has a book signed by someone not realistically related to the book. That Stan Lee on the Star Wars 1 35 cent variant that I posted? Yeah, that's one of the problems there. Stan Lee scribbles on DC books for the lulz? Absolutely. MCU actors signing books with "their" character (by name) but unrelated to the modern portrayal, much less their involvement with it are personally pretty far up there for me, too. Purely as a hypothetical: Sebastian Stan is awesome, but does anyone think a copy of Captain America Comics #1 would be improved by Stan's signature (on the grounds that it's the first appearance of Bucky Barnes, who becomes the Winter Soldier, who Stan plays in the MCU)? Or even Chris Evans, for that matter? At least, I hope that's a hypothetical; there are 3 Sig Series copies of Captain America Comics 1, after all (at least one is Joe Simon)...
• The signer does something to actively make the cover much, much worse. Sometimes this is the fault of submitters with "clever" ideas about where to put the window on their window bags. Sometimes it's the signers' fault. Stan Lee seemingly had a thing for signing across faces, for example. And while good sketches and remarques can be legitimately amazing, we've all seen bad ones phoned in with a sharpie.
• Perhaps most of all, it bothers me when legitimate rarities (either in terms of overall scarcity or even scarcity in grade) are consumed for Signature Series books. I get it. SS collectors want high grade copies, too. But the process isn't reversible. There are hundreds and hundreds of 9.8 copies of ASM 298 and 299; those signatures didn't realistically limit collector access to equivalent Universal books, but for some issues, it really can. For a dramatic example, let's look at the census for Captain America Comics 3. It's understandable why people wanted this book signed, because it was Stan Lee's first work for Timely. But it's a legitimate rarity, with 112 total copies on census (assuming there's no label duplication there). Sixteen of those books are signed (plus another six in hybrid purple/yellow labels). Over 10% of the slabbed copies. Now, to the credit of the Sig Series collectors, I suppose, the handful of highest-graded copies aren't signed. But they could have been. With enough cash, that sole 9.6 at the top of census could have been shipped off to a Stan Lee signing, leaving a handful of 9.2s at the top of the Universal census. Would that have made the book better? Would that have made the book's population better? It's possible in more recent books, too. Over 10% of the copies of Albedo 2 on census are Sig Series; fully 20% of the 9.8 copies are in yellow labels now.

[Ryan.]

[shadroch]

What I collect rules, what you collect droolz. 

Get over it.

[Terry JSA]

On 8/17/2021 at 1:38 PM, Ryan. said:

I like the placement of the Russ Heath signature. 

[sckao]

Why should the Artist or Writer care that it's a Key book or that it's in great condition? You're mixing the content with the commodity. 

If I were a creator and someone came up to me with a beater of a book that they had since childhood, I'd love to sign it. Same if it were a pristine copy. The condition has nothing to do with it.

Some creators don't like the fact that money is being made off their signatures or that some people lie to their faces when they ask for their signature or cover sketch and then turn around to sell it immediately on eBay. Those comics probably aren't read or from private collections. They're commodities and collectibles. These same creators are now being paid for their signatures in an official setting so something has been done to even the playing field for them (or remove the stigma of them asking their own fans for money for their autograph).

[jcjames]

On 8/17/2021 at 11:51 AM, sckao said:

Why should the Artist or Writer care that it's a Key book or that it's in great condition? You're mixing the content with the commodity. 

If I were a creator and someone came up to me with a beater of a book that they had since childhood, I'd love to sign it. Same if it were a pristine copy. The condition has nothing to do with it.

 

I did exactly that and even said that I had this one since I was a little kid and Neal Adams told me I could go find a better looking copy waving his hand aimlessly out towards the con. 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by jcjames

[kav]

On 8/17/2021 at 12:55 PM, jcjames said:

I did exactly that and even said that I had this one since I was a little kid and Neal Adams told me I could go find a better looking copy waving his hand aimlessly out towards the con. 

 

 

"Kneel-I didnt say I wanted you to sign a good looking copy I said I wanted you to sign the one I had since I was a little kid.  Pls try to pay attention"
(waves hand in front of Kneel's face)

[sckao]

Well, we're also collectors. He still signed it though. 

Let's put it this way... I have my beaten up childhood comics that no one would want. They weren't even mine but handed down to me by my big brother... but I also have high grade pedigree slabbed copies of them. 

Case in point: Superboy 133. (Weird, I know.)

My favorite copy: Beaten up and weathered Superboy #133

Green River Pedigree Copy 9.2

Boston Pedigree Copies (3) 9.4, 9.4, 9.2 

Savannah Copy 9.6 

 

 

 

[Randall Ries]

On 8/17/2021 at 12:29 PM, The Lions Den said:

Call me crazy, but I can see both sides of this argument.  

For instance, RR recently posted some nice Neal Adams sig series books. I thought those were actually pretty tasteful since the signatures were neatly placed and didn't detract from the cover art. But there are other times when the signature (or other doodling) obscures the artwork and is a bit of an eyesore, IMO... 

 

 

They ARE tasteful. I have no prob with SS books in general. I have a problem WHERE they are place sometimes and Lee didn't care what he was obscuring. Case in point: When we see for example a Bat #232 the vast majority of sigs are places above Batman's head. On Bat #251, the sigs are placed along the top of the banner on the bottom. Adams is at least aware that collectors want an unobtrusive sig. Who wants a Lee signature on a Captain America #100 that covers Cap's face? Or a pathetic attempt at a spider drawing that looks more like a whoopie pie than a spider? I don't.

That FF #1 is wrecked IMO. Lee thought that was a great place to write "Flame On"? And sure. Most times it's a fan or collector who thinks it'd be great to have them do a sketch on a book. Why does it have to be a 9.6 or 9.8 key? We have all seen those examples and when they inevitably get slapped up on EBAY, they sit for a long time.

[Randall Ries]

On 8/17/2021 at 2:51 PM, sckao said:

Why should the Artist or Writer care that it's a Key book or that it's in great condition?

It's nothing to them. It really does fall on the collector for the most part. Or more likely the mercenary who plans on selling the book to someone who has no taste. That's really a point I can't argue against. Adams would probably sign my a@# if I paid him to.

On the other hand, I have zero sympathy when I'm paying $200 for a signature or whatever it is. Frank Miller Does his little doodly things on DKR books. Why? Because he isn't getting a cut on the sale of original artwork. So he draws them terribly. Miller is the last artist I would ask a sketch from.
The sigs and sketches I see 4 sale 4 ever are the personalized ones. There is a GL/GA #76 Adams signed "to Bruce" that's been sitting forever. Geez. How do I buy that at that asking price? I'm not Bruce.