Exposing FRAUD And DECEPTION - A Must Watch! 18 18

[COI]

On 8/31/2021 at 10:07 PM, comicwiz said:

If we're throwing out wild ideas, it would appear that we understand how someone holding 2000 Jordan's is fine, and that spending $400K to acquire one of them is all good, because it establishes a floor price or keeps moving the needle for the rest of their holdings to continue to increase in value. But the ultimate end game would be to take away the notion of ownership by a single person by pricing everyone out of their hobby, until fractional ownership is the only possibility. This allows the asset to be held and controlled by one entity or person(s) pulling the strings, while everyone else gambles away their money, believing they are stakeholders of some sort.

We have this with Rally, and the only way this fails is if collectors don't make it so easy for them by gravitating to the predictable same dozen keys everyone wants, just because market hype says their the ones to own. If they don't know what people want, they won't have any appealing offerings, and the whole model falters. But more importantly, if people actually followed what they preach, which is to collect what they love, you'd be flipping all the folks wanting to pull the rug out from under you the bird in the process. And maybe even enjoy your hobby again.

We're definitely on the same page here.

I think most of the buying/selling activity now - the FOMO - isn't collectors, it's people trying to get in while the getting is good. When prices are going up exponentially, not in years, and sometimes not even in months, but in days, everyone wants some of the action.

Over the last little while I've done a lot of bidding on comics and no winning. That's fine. I bid what I'm willing to pay, based on 20 years of experience and my own personal valuations, and what I'm willing to pay currently doesn't cut it. The vast majority of comics are plentiful, and the vast majority also aren't affected by any of this. Same thing with games, which I also buy, and thankfully I care more about the games I buy than most because I'm winning those left and right. They're definitely not sealed NES games.

[COI]

The console wars are still alive and kicking, the players are just different. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/31/2021 at 9:36 PM, COI said:

The console wars are still alive and kicking, the players are just different. 

Badaboom indeed, would love to help my brother to a PS5, but he has no time to watch for announcements.

A while back he saw something posted like, already a million or whatever sold.

He was like, ya where?

Made me chuckle, but I like classics and the minis and he's comfortable awaiting a true supply.

Still the skirmish is more subtle imo nowadays

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 8/31/2021 at 10:31 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Yes ,there have also been a few Netflix docuseries, it's all ia bit interesting having grown up during the time, when you'd hear all kinds of rumors and or this or that. It IS a nice closure to know the final deal surmised! 

 

What's the best documentary to watch if I wanted to learn the history of console video games, especially the Atari era?

[Djangology]

On 8/31/2021 at 12:18 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I don't collect video games but what I've learned from all of this is that for some reason, the games that I would personally consider the most desirable as collectibles -- basically those original Atari 2600 games and that first round of Activision games that raised the bar -- are not really the ones fetching the best prices.

I guess it shouldn't be surprising that the original Super Mario Bros. game would be a major collectible (#1, I gather?) since it launched one franchise (Nintendo consoles in general) and sort-of launched another (all things Mario -- which of course really started with the Donkey Kong arcade game).  But I would have expected much more love for the Atari.  The Atari 2600 changed my life as a 10-year-old kid, and it set me on the path of wanting to be a software developer before I even knew exactly what that meant.  I have never looked back.

 

On 8/31/2021 at 12:54 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Honest question, what does how "playable" a game is today have to do with anything when these are all sealed in shrink-wrapped boxes?

If this is all (or mostly) about nostalgia, it shouldn't be about how well a game ages by today's standards, it should be about how that game made you feel as a kid.  Some of the least impressive games from a purely visual standpoint (Zork anyone?) are among the all-time greats in terms of how much they dominated the public consciousness in their time.

Out of curiosity, what are the arguments for why Atari's console games should be the most desirable independent of your personal connection to them? After Atari crashed the U.S. game market in the early 80s, they never really came back in any meaningful way. In contrast, Nintendo significantly expanded the market in the mid-80s and has been relevant to every subsequent generation. On top of that, the popular 2600 games were mostly wildly inferior arcade ports.

It's not like Platinum Age comics or 19th century baseball cards are the most desirable in those respective hobbies, so just being earlier in the market isn't inherently enough.

[lou_fine]

On 8/29/2021 at 7:18 PM, Iconic1s said:

Lastly, I hope to God that the next thing Blackstone does isn’t link CGC up with an auction house. I already see what I think are inflated grades on their in-house signings, and I think the Promise Collection has already been talked to death.  If there is some preferred auction house then I think we can kiss grading integrity goodbye.

A question here for you................have you been sleeping in a cave for the past 20 years and just got up to take a look outside?  

Think back to a few years ago when the big Jon Berk Auction took place at CC and we saw many of the books come back out on dealer's website with the same books now residing in higher graded slabs and being resold for substantially higher prices, and this was within a few weeks of the auction ending on CC.  No surprise though when the CGC acolytes on these boards here came on and said that it only made business sense for CGC to have undergraded the Jon Berk Collection.  

Fast forward to today and guess what...............the Promise Collection is being auctioned off through a different auction house and unlike the Jon Berk Collection where I don't remember any talk at all about overgraded books while the auction was taking place, the boards seem to be quite active with various threads showing scans and having chatter on books that appear to be overgraded.  BTW:  Have we seen even a single one of the Promise books sold so far coming back into the marketplace encased in higher graded slabs and being resold for a higher price yet?    

[lou_fine]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:10 AM, comicwiz said:

I was speaking with someone who had several copies of a high demand key he bought in his retirement, at the time we spoke, one of them (which he purchased for $8K was now only getting about $5K in the open market, that's a difference of roughly $3K from March 2021 to about July 2021. He said he'd keep it and try to get what he had in it, doubtful he will come anywhere close to what he paid for it. That was one of three copies of that book that he bought to "invest" in, the other two were higher grades, and consequently, he had much more into those.

Well, maybe he's gone from the strategy of trying to "time the market" to "spending time in the market". 

If so and if he's willing to hold on long term, you just never know.  Remember that economics professor (i.e. Boston Corbett) who came onto these boards here about a decade ago and proceeded to lectured all of us on why his purchase of New Mutants 98 in CGC 9.9 for $12K was a sure fire winner just before the value dropped in half.  Well, if he had onky held on until now, then he surely would have gotten the last laugh on all of us and his classic departing line would have been much more appropriate:

"Thus Endeth The Lesson"  

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

On 8/30/2021 at 10:59 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Sounds like the million dollar payment was not made to stop the FTC from wasting their time. Sounds like it was made to stop the blood flow

Are you saying it's really nothing more than "hush money" to keep the real story from coming out?  

[comicwiz]

On 8/31/2021 at 10:33 PM, COI said:

We're definitely on the same page here.

I think most of the buying/selling activity now - the FOMO - isn't collectors, it's people trying to get in while the getting is good. When prices are going up exponentially, not in years, and sometimes not even in months, but in days, everyone wants some of the action.

Over the last little while I've done a lot of bidding on comics and no winning. That's fine. I bid what I'm willing to pay, based on 20 years of experience and my own personal valuations, and what I'm willing to pay currently doesn't cut it. The vast majority of comics are plentiful, and the vast majority also aren't affected by any of this. Same thing with games, which I also buy, and thankfully I care more about the games I buy than most because I'm winning those left and right. They're definitely not sealed NES games.

I think I spoke about this at some point in another thread, but I had the kids home all summer and wanted them off the screens. I picked-up a comic rack and put it in their room, and told them I would fill it with comics for them to read. They had to read at least one a day. I wanted to expose them to some early Hulks and Spidey's. Guess what? I couldn't find any readers from even the Hulk run for under $30. One of the boardie's here was slashing prices on a few they had, didn't even respond to my PM (thankfully) asking if we could work out a bundle deal. Instead, I went over to eBay and found a seller offering about 8 or 9 of them at $1 each - the only downside is for some reason eBay wasn't allowing shipping to be combined, and each was tacking on $20 of shipping. I bought them anyway and worked something out with him in the end. I got some 20 comics from him (15 were Trimpe Hulks, 5 were MTU's) for $50 shipped. Conversely, those same 15 Hulks would have cost me well over $400 (no shipping included) if I had bought them from the boards. I filled one side of the rack and had some Spidey's already (which I couldn't find any readers below $60 per). Don't get me wrong, I stand to benefit from a lot of what's happening, but as a parent trying to lightly nudge my own to get into at least enjoying the yarn weaving these classic stories told, it's getting impractical and nuts, and frankly the future is looking bleak if this continues. And yes, I could have gotten an Omnibus or reprints, but it just isn't the same experience, and the whole point was to get them off the screens, so digital was a no go. I've also been the kind of person to call a spade a spade, and I realize it's tempting to hang around and watch the specs ride the waterslide and to throw them an anchor when they come up for air, or sell/rent the spade to help them burrow down and retreat, but to say nothing at all or be complicit about it, that's just not me.

Edited September 1, 2021 by comicwiz

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:28 PM, COI said:

Most of the people here are doing the exact same type of motivated reasoning. Quick to point out the reasoning flaws in anyone holding the opposing view, then all is silent when the tables are turned.

Tons of reasoning errors, leaps in logic and clear exaggerations have been pointed out in both the video and Abramson's writing throughout this thread; they are the ones making claims and accusations; the burden of proof is on them, not Dan who's on vacation with his kid. Why not scan the video and Abramson's substack for logical fallacies too, because I can assure you, you'll find tons.

If Dan doesn't have the time, then he shouldn't be resorting to logical fallacies. It's a fool's errand.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/31/2021 at 10:45 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Badaboom indeed, would love to help my brother to a PS5, but he has no time to watch for announcements.

GameStop Pro. Doesn't take more than a second to check your phone when you get an email alert.

[The Lions Den]

Well, I've read the various articles and I understand the allegations. What I'd like to know is what people actually think is going to happen from all this..?  

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/1/2021 at 9:25 AM, The Lions Den said:

Well, I've read the various articles and I understand the allegations. What I'd like to know is what people actually think is going to happen from all this..?  

Likely very little. People like to talk a lot, but very few walk.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/31/2021 at 10:09 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

On 8/31/2021 at 9:31 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Yes ,there have also been a few Netflix docuseries, it's all ia bit interesting having grown up during the time, when you'd hear all kinds of rumors and or this or that. It IS a nice closure to know the final deal surmised! 

 

Expand  

What's the best documentary to watch if I wanted to learn the history of console video games, especially the Atari era?

I want to say it was called high score...

It's the best one currently on Netflix, I don't know of any other to compare it to, yet it went through older to current consoles. I want to say there was another as well but can't remember the name....

[MatterEaterLad]

On 9/1/2021 at 7:25 AM, The Lions Den said:

Well, I've read the various articles and I understand the allegations. What I'd like to know is what people actually think is going to happen from all this..?  

Another FTC investigation. Another settlement. The reputations of WATA and Heritage take a beating for a while. Then back to shilling as usual. 

[WolverineX]

On 9/1/2021 at 9:31 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Likely very little. People like to talk a lot, but very few walk.

 

On 9/1/2021 at 9:49 AM, MatterEaterLad said:

Another FTC investigation. Another settlement. The reputations of WATA and Heritage take a beating for a while. Then back to shilling as usual. 

I guess don't use the companies? I don't anyway. Do you really think b there will be another FTC investigation? I wonder how the coin fraud investigation started in the 80s?

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/1/2021 at 10:04 AM, Wolverinex said:

I guess don't use the companies? I don't anyway.

I don't, either. I expect that it'll be the same as TAT complaints. Sure, everyone will complain, but most of the people who submit will continue to do so. They'll just bemoan more than they did before.

[jimjum12]

On 9/1/2021 at 10:04 AM, Wolverinex said:

 

I guess don't use the companies? I don't anyway. Do you really think b there will be another FTC investigation? I wonder how the coin fraud investigation started in the 80s?

... This is a good question. 

Another would be who exactly determined that overgrading occurred ? It must have been pretty bad if it could be proved to the point of litigation. I wouldn't mind seeing some examples. GOD BLESS ... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 9/1/2021 at 9:25 AM, The Lions Den said:

Well, I've read the various articles and I understand the allegations. What I'd like to know is what people actually think is going to happen from all this..?  

I think it depends on who the buyers are that were impacted by these shenanigans.  If one of them happens to be overly litigious, things could get ugly.  Maybe a class action suit gets filed....

 

 

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

On 8/31/2021 at 10:33 PM, COI said:

We're definitely on the same page here.

I think most of the buying/selling activity now - the FOMO - isn't collectors, it's people trying to get in while the getting is good. When prices are going up exponentially, not in years, and sometimes not even in months, but in days, everyone wants some of the action.

Over the last little while I've done a lot of bidding on comics and no winning. That's fine. I bid what I'm willing to pay, based on 20 years of experience and my own personal valuations, and what I'm willing to pay currently doesn't cut it. The vast majority of comics are plentiful, and the vast majority also aren't affected by any of this. Same thing with games, which I also buy, and thankfully I care more about the games I buy than most because I'm winning those left and right. They're definitely not sealed NES games.

I'm in the same boat, if you will, not having won an auction in quite some time as all the comic books I have bid on in almost a year have sold for more, often much more, than I'm willing to pay.