Marvel NFT's from 1991 0

[Sam T]

People keep talking about NFT's in these vague, abstract terms but they're actually not new and they're not valuable and they're not important.

 

Any physical recreation of existing art can be considered an NFT of that art. This is a physical representation of the art from avengers 1. But its value is in no one related to the value of a silver age copy of Avengers #1. The idea is that the vague language around NFT's keep trying to imply a connection. But folks are kinda being caught in the same hype form the 90's just with a new name. This isn't a digital NFT but its a non-fungible token non-the less. The idea is that a digital NFT actually has less value because you can't download my card but I can download the image from your NFT. NFT's have no scarcity. They're just reproducible data with a Certificate of Authentication and theres a reason no one cares about CoA's anymore...anyone can print one, lol.

 

That card probably sold for $3 in an LCS in 90's. Now its worth somewhere between nothing and $1. At the same time the original comic has probably gone up 20-50x in value.

 

A lotta older folks in the industry seem to be selling weird hype to younger collectors. But these old dudes all lived through the 90's crash. They know what they're doing and they're trying to get new, dumb money to buy them out of their toxic positions. The variant and NFT comic markets are basically the chromium covers and death of superman stuff from the 90's and that stuff ain't even worth the paper its printed on now.

 

Goodluck everyone and remember that hype ain't real and value is a two sided equation: supply and demand. if you focus on one, you'll be lead astray.

[500hpAudiS4]

That card has some value depending on condition.

[Sam T]

Not sure where you got that info but here's what i found, all gem mint 10 avengers 1 impel cards:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/114927944699?hash=item1ac23d43fb:g:tC0AAOSwMm5gnFp8 - $15

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304068008134?hash=item46cbdd98c6:g:ObwAAOSwbZJg8NCz - $14.50

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304081202146?hash=item46cca6ebe2:g:PcYAAOSwGsRg~eXu - $22.50

 

 

Basically at 15-20 bucks you're paying for the case. People might like the card and want to preserve it. The value of a graded and sealed avengers #1 impel card is probably a little less the actual cost of getting it graded.

 

 

Where do you get your sales data? Mines sourced and yours is just pic anyone could make.

[Sam T]

On 9/6/2021 at 3:59 PM, Millionth said:

This one is an 8, not a 10, no?

Why would that matter?

[Buzzetta]

Let me preach on where NFT's are eventually headed in relation to comics. 

One day, print will be dead.  One day.  It could be 100 years from now.  Who knows?

NFT's will allow an edition size of a digital comic book much like there are print runs of a tangible comic.  People will buy and sell comic book NFT's to put in their digital long box.

But Buzz... print will never die.  Okay... maybe there will be limited TPB's collecting a few issues at a time.  But eventually they will figure out how to make comic books 'collection' worthy.  NFT will probably be the avenue for that to happen.

They are already doing it with digital sports cards. 

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Buzzetta

[wombat]

I have very little experience or knowledge of NTFs. But they did some Frazetta ones that sold for quite a bit of money not that long ago. So someone is willing to pay for these things. 

[Sam T]

On 9/6/2021 at 4:43 PM, Buzzetta said:

Let me preach on where NFT's are eventually headed in relation to comics. 

One day, print will be dead.  One day.  It could be 100 years from now.  Who knows?

NFT's will allow an edition size of a digital comic book much like there are print runs of a tangible comic.  People will buy and sell comic book NFT's to put in their digital long box.

But Buzz... print will never die.  Okay... maybe there will be limited TPB's collecting a few issues at a time.  But eventually they will figure out how to make comic books 'collection' worthy.  NFT will probably be the avenue for that to happen.

They are already doing it with digital sports cards. 

 

Except this isn't an objective thing you're saying exists in the real world. Even in a digital form.

 

This "digital longbox" only exists within the walls of a single platform. Like you don't own any of the games you buy on Steam despite them using ownership-based language. If Steam stops existing, so does your "ownership". These NFTs don't actually exist outside of the proprietary database that is selling them to you and tracking ownership. Comixology, the itunes store, etc... all of these media curation platforms are designed to erode the concept of ownership. Ya'll keep that nonsense lol.

 

That's the rub...no matter what happens to marvel (and a whole lot is gonna come out when isaac perlmutter can't keep up with the protection payments) I still own my books. And I still own my game cartridges. And I still own my trading cards. If your ownership is platform based then it's not really ownership. You're stuck promoting that platform for the rest of your life or the asset loses its value because sure enough the jpg you bought on one database is also being sold on another database...what if the database you invested in doesn't become "the supreme NFT"?

Edited September 6, 2021 by Sam T

[justafan]

I can tell you where NFTs are going and where the real value could be: 2nd Life Augmented Reality VR access. NFTs are currently a verifiable blockchain asset without a physicsl copy use and digital copy restriction. But if there were a digital realm (ala Ready Player One) where such digital copies of those assets could only be owned, viewed and displayed if doing so with the block chain verified NFT copy, and that digital reality became the sole environment where everyone wanted/needed to be in order to view it, and if that environment restricted or made it a crime to hold, view, or display a copy of the NFT.

Fastforward 20 years and all internet access is only supported through proprietary paywall enforced hardware software mediums. Official physical print and the World Wide Web as we know it has been globally banned and outlawed. No book burnings but no new editions and all current computers wouldnt be able to access the Internet. Education and career advancement is based on your level of access which is based on how much you can afford. Status is based on your augmented reality presence and digital assets. Telework is the norm for all white collar jobs. Blue collar jobs basically exist to physically support the always connected workforce and elites. 

Basically physical reality becomes passe and is relegated to the poor whereas all business, learning, and social networkings happen through the fully immersed VR world (possibly a revived version of 2nd Life) or probably some lesser variation of this theme.

[Sam T]

@justafan yep, NFT's are a form of DRM for pre-existing digital content and guess what...DRM is bad for digital content distribution.

 

The entire concept is based on a bunch of folks start freemium business models and then telling their investors "well when all these people pay me, you'll get big bucks" except in between they sold their platform to marketers so the fans kinda checked out and now the platforms are mostly just influencers being control by semi-automated computer-assisted bot armies.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Sam T

[masterlogan2000]

Though I'm not going to speculate on the value of digital tokens in the future, the premise of the OP's arguments are fundamentally flawed based simply on the fact that the OP's definition of NFTs are flawed.  In particular, the OP misses or ignores the whole Non-Fungible aspect of an NFT, which is two-thirds of its whole name.  The example given is NOT an NFT, and conflating the printing and value of 1990s trading cards to NFTs is foolish.

I find it funny when comic collectors, such as myself, declare that something they don't fully understand should have no value and therefore have no marketplace.  Let's not lose sight of the fact that we derive value from paper products colored in inks.  Would you also argue that the comics we collect (and are so passionate about) should be worth nothing more than the paper that they are printed on?  I don't buy into that idea, nor will I engage in any activity where I tell another person that their hobby or collection is dumb and worthless.

 

[justafan]

The flaw (or scam?) for mainstream novice NFT collectors is that it is only Non-Fungible on the block chain and no where else. The content itself is fungible. One main difference is that the creator of a specific NFT (or anyone else really) can also recreate or remake and sell another NFT just like the first one. Jack Dorsey could make another NFT of his first tweet and sell it depreciating the value of his previous NFT. Most NFT artists do retain the copyrights for their art so not just anyone can copy their art and sell it as an NFT.

Fungibility means something that can be exchanged/replaced for another just like it. An exact copy of anything digital can be made and no one could tell the difference unless it is accompanied by its blockchain verified token that only the person that holds the digital wallet that holds the NFT can really provide.

. But if you as a collector receive joy in owning the first NFTs ever created or the first NFT among dozens of recreated NFT copies of the same NFT from the origial creator, and there are enough likeminded out there, then youve got yourself a hobby and a market for it.

[500hpAudiS4]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:56 PM, Sam T said:

Not sure where you got that info but here's what i found, all gem mint 10 avengers 1 impel cards:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/114927944699?hash=item1ac23d43fb:g:tC0AAOSwMm5gnFp8 - $15

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304068008134?hash=item46cbdd98c6:g:ObwAAOSwbZJg8NCz - $14.50

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304081202146?hash=item46cca6ebe2:g:PcYAAOSwGsRg~eXu - $22.50

 

 

Basically at 15-20 bucks you're paying for the case. People might like the card and want to preserve it. The value of a graded and sealed avengers #1 impel card is probably a little less the actual cost of getting it graded.

 

 

Where do you get your sales data? Mines sourced and yours is just pic anyone could make.

who buys graded items from emc or whatever you linked.. those aren't even good grading companies.. its like buying pgx vs cgc.so not sure if your trolling or just misinformed

[Sam T]

@justafan how is your term "the block chain" not just a proprietary, privately controlled database?

[Sam T]

@500hpAudiS4ummm dude. look at the cards. they're pristine.

 

im sorry but this weird brand loyalty mess is the opposite of what CGC stands for. don't be a weirdo and stan for a corporation. cgc is nice enough to let us have an open forum and lets at least be honest about the realities of their industry. they're good and everyone is pretty much good. Don't cheapen their forum with shilling for the parent company. They dont need this cheap stunt posting.

[500hpAudiS4]

On 9/6/2021 at 6:31 PM, Sam T said:

@500hpAudiS4ummm dude. look at the cards. they're pristine.

 

im sorry but this weird brand loyalty mess is the opposite of what CGC stands for. don't be a weirdo and stan for a corporation. cgc is nice enough to let us have an open forum and lets at least be honest about the realities of their industry. they're good and everyone is pretty much good. Don't cheapen their forum with shilling for the parent company. They dont need this cheap stunt posting.

You pretty much invalidated your first statement with what you linked regarding card values. Seriously stop trolling.

[masterlogan2000]

On 9/6/2021 at 8:22 PM, Sam T said:

@justafan how is your term "the block chain" not just a proprietary, privately controlled database?

@Sam T, I think you have some research to do on blockchain technologies.  I mean no disrespect here, but I think you are misunderstanding how this works.

While some blockchains can indeed be private, in the scope of any publicly purchased/traded NFTs, you're always working with blockchains that are also publicly operated and decentralized.  The key is the decentralization where the whole database is maintained and verified by nodes within that database.  Equally as important, anyone with a PC can run as a node.

Based on these facts, I'm not sure how you could come to the conclusion that these are privately controlled or proprietary.

[Buzzetta]

On 9/6/2021 at 5:51 PM, Sam T said:

Except this isn't an objective thing you're saying exists in the real world. Even in a digital form.

 

This "digital longbox" only exists within the walls of a single platform. Like you don't own any of the games you buy on Steam despite them using ownership-based language. If Steam stops existing, so does your "ownership". These NFTs don't actually exist outside of the proprietary database that is selling them to you and tracking ownership. Comixology, the itunes store, etc... all of these media curation platforms are designed to erode the concept of ownership. Ya'll keep that nonsense lol.

 

That's the rub...no matter what happens to marvel (and a whole lot is gonna come out when isaac perlmutter can't keep up with the protection payments) I still own my books. And I still own my game cartridges. And I still own my trading cards. If your ownership is platform based then it's not really ownership. You're stuck promoting that platform for the rest of your life or the asset loses its value because sure enough the jpg you bought on one database is also being sold on another database...what if the database you invested in doesn't become "the supreme NFT"?

Where it is most likely headed doesn’t care whether you like it or not.