CGC does not encapsulate Authenticated Cards 3 3

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 10/2/2021 at 8:02 AM, Yeahiwasder4dat said:

Some had a green label Venusaur on here. He was probably expecting something like that. Let me see if I can find it.

Bottom right. Only green label I've seen. I'm not a comic person, but isn't that equivalent of altered? I wasn't aware that it was specifically limited to size like trimming. He was probably expecting something like that.

@onlyweaknesskryptonite know you're a comic dude. What is the green?

 

On 10/2/2021 at 11:27 AM, topcat54 said:

The GREEN is for qualified cards or books.

This one describes whats wrong on the back of the case. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185074353622?hash=item2b174a85d6:g:aTcAAOSwKdxhQ9uO

Top Cat is correct.  The Green Labels are called Qualified.  Those usually mean there is some defect with the graded item that CGC recognizes and notes, but they do not detract from its overall grade for its qualifier. 

Most common examples in comics.

Hulk 181 has a Marvel Value Stamp inside of the book that a lot of people cut out. When it is cut out CGC will grade them as if it still had them, but will note missing MVS. 

Next would be Signatures that were not witnessed by CGC. Those usually will note "Name Written on Cover/First Page Etc" on the Label and they will grade them as if the Signature was not there. 

Some of these are hit and miss as CGC can also grade the exact same books and detract from the grade for the qualifiers and give them a Blue Universal Label.(The still note the issues on the label)

The site and submission suggest that you can request between getting the Green and Blue Label. When they were not as busy as they have become now , they used to reach out to you and ask would you prefer to get a Green or Blue Label.  

[Drew99]

On 10/2/2021 at 3:51 AM, Rufuss C. Kingston said:

CGC does authenticate cards, cause they wouldn't encapsulate a fake card.  But I don't believe CGC encapsulates cards where the dimensions are altered, or for the most part "hand cut" cards.   I believe that as a matter of standards, CGC does NOT slab anything that has been trimmed or altered dimension wise.  What you are asking for is a "grade" of Authentic Altered, but that is not a grade that CGC offers.  Yes, other companies do, but just because they do doesn't mean CGC automatically does.   When you called in, were you VERY specific that you were going to submit altered/mutilated (jk) cards?   When you made your submission, did you put somewhere that you wanted them graded as Authentic altered?   CGC could NOT just encapsulate them as Authentic because that would not imply that they were altered,

They do authenticate altered cards.  These cards are considered authenticated by CGC

i know this is a convoluted post.

I hear what your saying… pretend for a second that I had all of your questions and concerns and I called in advance and asked… that… and they say… oh yea sir we can help you…

then you get what I got back in the mail…

oh… well we didn’t know you wanted it in plastic… well we won’t do that…

it’s so hard to explain because it’s so crazy

[Drew99]

The best is when they replied and said one side could have been mistaken for a card from another set… of the 12 places on their site and the several posts from the same dude where they discuss the card as a whole getting a single number for the grade and sub grade…

now only one side matters…not familiar with that policy on the site but okay, now we have policies conflicting with other policies.

there is a such a thing as Rebacked cards… it’s a problem… but this isn’t one.  It was submitted under the proper set and year and is not clipped anywhwe close to an alpha. 
 

also, CE were made

from BETA plates anyways and if you can’t tell the difference… it just blows my mind

[Drew99]

The only relevant item is that they did authenticate the cards.  It’s not a question of whether they should or should not.  They did.

Read the title of the posting.  They do not encapsulate authenticated cards.

if you have a card that is altered and is a high dollar card.  You can call customer service right now… I did yesterday and ask.  Hey, can you provide an authentication only service.

They will tell you yes…

you will receive what I received in the mail.

it’s authentic… congratulations… but we will offer no secure authentication so it’s worthless.  
 

if anyone needs this service… MTG is a game where many old cards are damaged.  People might want to know this.  They will proclaim a service… but they actually really don’t 

 

[Yeahiwasder4dat]

On 10/2/2021 at 12:46 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

 

Top Cat is correct.  The Green Labels are called Qualified.  Those usually mean there is some defect with the graded item that CGC recognizes and notes, but they do not detract from its overall grade for its qualifier. 

Most common examples in comics.

Hulk 181 has a Marvel Value Stamp inside of the book that a lot of people cut out. When it is cut out CGC will grade them as if it still had them, but will note missing MVS. 

Next would be Signatures that were not witnessed by CGC. Those usually will note "Name Written on Cover/First Page Etc" on the Label and they will grade them as if the Signature was not there. 

Some of these are hit and miss as CGC can also grade the exact same books and detract from the grade for the qualifiers and give them a Blue Universal Label.(The still note the issues on the label)

The site and submission suggest that you can request between getting the Green and Blue Label. When they were not as busy as they have become now , they used to reach out to you and ask would you prefer to get a Green or Blue Label.  

Strange to me that a card can receive a grade for being touched with ink but not trimmed under Auth/altered. Such is the case with most other places.

[Drew99]

On 10/2/2021 at 1:56 PM, Yeahiwasder4dat said:

Strange to me that a card can receive a grade for being touched with ink but not trimmed under Auth/altered. Such is the case with most other places.

No card can receive a grade that is altered.  I believe this is consistent in all grading across all companies.

green label cards are artistic altered…

However, the designation of altered is separate and apart from the authentication.  If you receive the slip, it is authenticated… but they will not Slab it.  
 

That’s the point.  They are saying you are paying for someone to render an opinion.  And I take issue with that.  People  do NOT do that.  They pay for a secure opinion from a grading agency.  They have every right to choose not to do it or whatever they do or don’t… it’s their company… but they cannot say that the cards I have received and are pictured have received an official 3rd party authentication as is offered by other agencies.  
 

you can’t have it both ways.  Nobody will buy these cards as authenticated as they are NOT secured and verifiable.  Anyone could tamper with that so it’s not valid.  

I do not want nor did I seek a numerical grade.  My cards are altered and should NOT be graded.  I olnly wanted them to slab what they actually did do.

the graders at CGC are correct in their designation.  It’s the company and their policy, the website, the disconnect in communication with customer support I have an issue with.

the graders also had several

other items.  Everything I got back… everything from a grading perspective was top notch and accurate.  
 

Not slabbing the cards is not the choice of the graders, it’s a company issue, policy.  
 

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

Something that surprises me about this is that they return the cards in a standard sleeve and the label just inserted. You would think at least they would be branded CGC toploader/sleeve that would have a  tamper proof seal making at least some attempt to deter misuse of the authentication.  

[Drew99]

On 10/2/2021 at 1:56 PM, Yeahiwasder4dat said:

Strange to me that a card can receive a grade for being touched with ink but not trimmed under Auth/altered. Such is the case with most other places.

No card can receive a grade that is altered.  I believe this is consistent in all grading across all companies.

green label cards are artistic altered I believe.

However, the designation of altered is separate and apart from the authentication.  If you receive the slip, it is authenticated… but they will not Slab it.  
 

That’s the point.  They are saying you are paying for someone to render an opinion.  And I take issue with that.  

People  do NOT pay to do that.  They pay for a secure opinion from a grading agency.  They have every right to choose not to do it or whatever they do or don’t… it’s their company… but they cannot say that the cards I have received and are pictured have received an official 3rd party authentication as is offered by other agencies.  
 

you can’t have it both ways.  Nobody will buy these cards as authenticated as they are NOT secured and verifiable.  Anyone could tamper with that so it’s not valid.  

I do not want nor did I seek a numerical grade.  My cards are altered and should NOT be graded.  I olnly wanted them to slab what they actually did do.

the graders at CGC are correct in their designation.  It’s the company and their policy, the website, the disconnect in communication with customer support I have an issue with.

the graders also had several

other items.  Everything I got back… everything from a grading perspective was top notch and accurate.  
 

Not slabbing the cards is not the choice of the graders, it’s a company issue, policy.  
 

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

Or even similar to the inner well in comics where it is a "soft" case for the card and  that has the label heat sealed inside.  

[Drew99]

On 10/2/2021 at 2:56 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Something that surprises me about this is that they return the cards in a standard sleeve and the label just inserted. You would think at least they would be branded CGC toploader/sleeve that would have a  tamper proof seal making at least some attempt to deter misuse of the authentication.  

Yes!!! This guy gets it…that’s the only thing I payed for… a SECURE opinion

[Rufuss C. Kingston]

You just don't get it.  You asked them to authenticate the cards, however, because the cards were "trimmed"/dimensionally altered (not to deceive though), they are NO  LONGER authentic as far as CGC is concerned.  One of the standards for a card to be deemed authentic by CGC is that the card is dimensionally the same as it was when issued by the manufacturer, except in instances of mfg error/miscut.  You basically handcut the card, and thus it is no longer authentic, because as I said previously, if CGC deemed it authentic, then they are deeming the modifications you made as authentic.    CGC does NOT have a Green Label qualifier of "dimensions altered", so thus you can't get a grade of Authentic Altered.

And stop talking about not paying for a graders opinion and paying for a 3rd party company's secure opinion.  They are interchangeable and mean the same thing....

The title of you post is incorrect, they DO encapsulate authenticated cards, it should say they don't encapsulate Authentic cards that have had the dimensions altered by hand!   Alas as I said, because the cards have changed dimensions, CGC does not consider them authentic from an official stance, only in jest if they tell you in email, but they will not slab it and guarantee it.

Again, when you spoke with customer service on the phone asking about getting the cards authenticated, were you adamant in telling them that you had mutilated the cards dimensions by hand that you were going to send them?

As it stands, you paid for and got a "secure" (in quotes because not slabbed) opinion.....  The opinion being that the cards are dimensionally altered, thus NOT authentic per CGC's policies.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Rufuss C. Kingston

[Yeahiwasder4dat]

On 10/2/2021 at 5:33 PM, Rufuss C. Kingston said:

You just don't get it.  You asked them to authenticate the cards, however, because the cards were "trimmed"/dimensionally altered (not to deceive though), they are NO  LONGER authentic as far as CGC is concerned.  One of the standards for a card to be deemed authentic by CGC is that the card is dimensionally the same as it was when issued by the manufacturer, except in instances of mfg error/miscut.  You basically handcut the card, and thus it is no longer authentic, because as I said previously, if CGC deemed it authentic, then they are deeming the modifications you made as authentic.    CGC does NOT have a Green Label qualifier of "dimensions altered", so thus you can't get a grade of Authentic Altered.

And stop talking about not paying for a graders opinion and paying for a 3rd party company's secure opinion.  They are interchangeable and mean the same thing....

The title of you post is incorrect, they DO encapsulate authenticated cards, it should say they don't encapsulate Authentic cards that have had the dimensions altered by hand!   Alas as I said, because the cards have changed dimensions, CGC does not consider them authentic from an official stance, only in jest if they tell you in email, but they will not slab it and guarantee it.

Again, when you spoke with customer service on the phone asking about getting the cards authenticated, were you adamant in telling them that you had mutilated the cards dimensions by hand that you were going to send them?

As it stands, you paid for and got a "secure" (in quotes because not slabbed) opinion.....  The opinion being that the cards are dimensionally altered, thus NOT authentic per CGC's policies.

I'm assuming because most other services have a version of this, that's what he was wanting. Trimming a card doesn't make it less real which is the point behind the "Authentic" label. While being ungradable in the sense of a numerical grade, it verifies that it is indeed a legitimate card.

Generally speaking in card grading "Authentic" status doesn't really have a lot to do with what the alteration was, color, cutting, etc, that prevented it from receiving a numerical grade. It's simply a yes or no on whether it was an original card. Then price is based on eye appeal.

Some cards still have value whether it's trimmed or not if it's rare, and people simply want to confirm that it's an originally printed card regardless of condition. 

Unless they expressly say on the sub page that they don't encapsulate Authentic/Altered cards he probably feels like he was mislead and paid for nothing.

Example being this with the border being to small. Can't get a numerical grade, but just being Authentic makes it worth a decent chunk of money.

[Drew99]

On 10/2/2021 at 5:33 PM, Rufuss C. Kingston said:

You just don't get it.  You asked them to authenticate the cards, however, because the cards were "trimmed"/dimensionally altered (not to deceive though), they are NO  LONGER authentic as far as CGC is concerned.  One of the standards for a card to be deemed authentic by CGC is that the card is dimensionally the same as it was when issued by the manufacturer, except in instances of mfg error/miscut.  You basically handcut the card, and thus it is no longer authentic, because as I said previously, if CGC deemed it authentic, then they are deeming the modifications you made as authentic.    CGC does NOT have a Green Label qualifier of "dimensions altered", so thus you can't get a grade of Authentic Altered.

No sir, CGC and I are in agreement, there is no dispute on what they did.  
 

The cards are authenticated… You are incorrect.  
 

CGC DOES consider the cards authentic and these are authenticated cards. CGC has stated and I have an official statement that hey ARE AUTHENTICATED.   

anything that receives a slip is authenticated.  I had to follow up with customer support to verify this because the slips say AC which is confusing but there it is.

there are also cards that for whatever reason they CANNOT authenticate due to certain types of alterations and such that would make it impossible to know… such as if someone took a sharpie and went over pertinent parts of a card (yes people did that too).  Those would not receive a slip.

these are not examples of that.  This is the full authentication service for altered cards through CGC.
 

That’s what I’m trying to pass along.  These cards were not ruled out.  They got the designation AC that was discussed, that was anticipated, and that is CORRECT.  

I did not submit the cards for grading.
 

If you want an authentication service… your cards will NOT be encapsulated.  
 

THE END

[Drew99]

The reasons that the cards can’t be graded is understood… I did not want them graded.

grading and authentication are separate things. 
 

I know that these cards CANNOT be graded and I do. It want them to be graded.  I only want them authenticated and set in plastic because they are valuable parts of my collection and people who buy them want this 

I did not want them graded but they do not offer this service but the eye will tell you that they do. 
 

Read the post title very carefully.  They do not encapsulate authenticated cards.  (This has nothing to do with grading)

[topcat54]

All the OP is saying is why didn't CGC do this with the cards end of story. Which in my eyes is what they should have done.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333911460150?hash=item4dbeac8936:g:qb4AAOSwZH5gQt-V

[Drew99]

This is a very narrow issue about company policy. I want to be clear that I take no issue with the graders at all.

I received the correct designations from the graders.  I also received a couple other cards back that were graded and they were accurate and looked great.  I really like their cases.

it’s a policy issue, not a quality or anything of that sort.  

My main frustration here honestly is that I don’t want to use another service… all collectors are a bit OCD and I’m no different.

 

I don’t want a bunch of PSA cases mixed in with my CGC cases.  And I want to be able to display my power nine set in a nice layout.

I hope that they do offer an authentication only service in the future… what they offer now is not an authentication service… it just isn’t.  But otherwise… I really like the look of their cases and I do think they grade correctly. (Just a little something positive… it wasn’t all a bad experience)
 

 

[topcat54]

If you are looking just to display the for yourself BCW Resealable Graded Card Sleeves will work till CGC changes their policy .

Just saying at least they will be safer in a good case for the time being.

[Drew99]

On 10/3/2021 at 11:02 AM, topcat54 said:

If you are looking just to display the for yourself BCW Resealable Graded Card Sleeves will work till CGC changes their policy .

Just saying at least they will be safer in a good case for the time being.

Yeah… good thought.  Will probably go that route.

What can you do…….. ?  I did want to use them but until they start taking the secure part seriously… I’ll have to wait until they figure things out.

[HomeGrownPoke1]

The more I read on this post the more I feel bad for that dead horse.....

[Kusig]

On 10/3/2021 at 10:26 AM, HomeGrownPoke1 said:

The more I read on this post the more I feel bad for that dead horse.....

I just keep waiting and checking back for Paul to chime in and clarify that the opinion given was that it was altered and not authentic hence why it wasn't put in a case.