X-Men 129 & 130 v. Rest of Dark Phoenix Saga 0

[JPSESQ 8]

What is the conventional wisdom on why X-Men 129 and 130 seem to be worth considerably more than the rest of the issues in the Dark Phoenix Saga.

Theories I've just kind of thought of but don't make sense:

(1) 130 has an awesome cover but that can't be it because (a) that's just my subjective take and (b) 135 is arguably an even more amazing and definitely more iconic cover.

(2) 129 is the first issue in saga - but I am not convinced that accounts for huge discrepancy for this issue in particular and also doesn't explain 130 being worth more than the rest.

(3) First appearances of Kitty Pride and Dazzler in 129 & 130 respectively. I mean, maybe? Death of Jean Grey herself in 137 seems like a bigger deal but I don't know.

Is it something simple that I am just missing: less copies of these were in circulation? Perhaps, they started making consideably more issues from 131 on ...

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 10/11/2021 at 4:26 PM, JPSESQ 8 said:

What is the conventional wisdom on why X-Men 129 and 130 seem to be worth considerably more than the rest of the issues in the Dark Phoenix Saga.

Theories I've just kind of thought of but don't make sense:

(1) 130 has an awesome cover but that can't be it because (a) that's just my subjective take and (b) 135 is arguably an even more amazing and definitely more iconic cover.

(2) 129 is the first issue in saga - but I am not convinced that accounts for huge discrepancy for this issue in particular and also doesn't explain 130 being worth more than the rest.

(3) First appearances of Kitty Pride and Dazzler in 129 & 130 respectively. I mean, maybe? Death of Jean Grey herself in 137 seems like a bigger deal but I don't know.

Is it something simple that I am just missing: less copies of these were in circulation? Perhaps, they started making consideably more issues from 131 on ...

To my knowledge it is only because of the double 1st appearances, pretty heavy characters  that holds the most weight!

Welcome to the Boards  :

[D2]

Further to Adamantium's point, once something has been cemented into place in respect to the collector's hierarchy, it becomes collecting law.

It has been a common discussion I've read over the years regarding Hulk 181. Where many believe 180 to be the true 1st appearance of Wolverine, the collective horde have baptized 181 as the one to get.

 

Collecting is a fickle mistress.

 

 

 

[JPSESQ 8]

Thanks for responses. Yes, wish it were opposite for Hulk 180-181 - as an owner of 180 that I bought for $20 in 1990 from a friend who really needed money. But it makes sense that 181 is more valuable. 

[Brock]

As someone who started collecting the title around this time, this was also when X-men hype was shifting into high gear. The stories were increasingly popular, and the post-94 books were starting to spike in price. By about 135 everybody was jumping on the x-train.

I would suspect that both overall supply and high grade supply grow dramatically between 129 and 137.

[jjonahjameson11]

On 10/12/2021 at 11:10 AM, D2 said:

Further to Adamantium's point, once something has been cemented into place in respect to the collector's hierarchy, it becomes collecting law.

It has been a common discussion I've read over the years regarding Hulk 181. Where many believe 180 to be the true 1st appearance of Wolverine, the collective horde have baptized 181 as the one to get.

 

Collecting is a fickle mistress.

 

 

 

Yeah, the 1st app of Wolvie saw a lot of back and forth for a while, but that discussion pales in comparison to landing on the 1st app of Sgt Rock!

[rexinnih]

I have all X-Men issues from 1 - 143 and few after that (thought with Byrne leaving, it was a good time to stop the complete at that number) so happy when anyone increases. I'm extremely happy with the rise for X-Men 101 and 129 but always thought 137 was undervalued especially with such an iconic cover. I guess since no one (or very few) stays dead in Marvel and Jean Grey coming back later on has affected that one. 

[Plantman]

On 10/11/2021 at 5:26 PM, JPSESQ 8 said:

What is the conventional wisdom on why X-Men 129 and 130 seem to be worth considerably more than the rest of the issues in the Dark Phoenix Saga.

Theories I've just kind of thought of but don't make sense:

(1) 130 has an awesome cover but that can't be it because (a) that's just my subjective take and (b) 135 is arguably an even more amazing and definitely more iconic cover.

(2) 129 is the first issue in saga - but I am not convinced that accounts for huge discrepancy for this issue in particular and also doesn't explain 130 being worth more than the rest.

(3) First appearances of Kitty Pride and Dazzler in 129 & 130 respectively. I mean, maybe? Death of Jean Grey herself in 137 seems like a bigger deal but I don't know.

Is it something simple that I am just missing: less copies of these were in circulation? Perhaps, they started making consideably more issues from 131 on ...

It is (3), and (3) alone. Consider, too, that Emma Frost and Sebastian Shaw both first appear in 129. All other factors barely affect the pricing of 129 & 130 relative to the rest of the Dark Phoenix Saga. It makes sense, in the sense that first appearance books have dominated the speculative hivemind for the past ten years.

[JPSESQ 8]

On 10/13/2021 at 6:21 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Yeah, the 1st app of Wolvie saw a lot of back and forth for a while, but that discussion pales in comparison to landing on the 1st app of Sgt Rock!

Don't really get the "debate" on 180 v 181. 180 is the first appearance (I mean, it is) but 181 is the first, cover, first story, first character development, etc., etc. Makes perfect sense to me that 181 is worth more - and I say this as a 180 owner who wishes it were flipped.

Thanks for responses - seems first appearances do account for the price discrepancy though the speculation that there are maybe less of 129 and 130 in circulation does not seem out of the question as at least contributing to it.

[alexgross.com]

as @rexinnihpointed out, no one stays dead in comics, so the 'death' of a character is rarely, if ever, as valued as a first appearance, even of someone as ridiculous as the dazzler, created solely to broaden comics' appeal to the disco crowd. 

[mec3437]

It doesn't matter the quality of the story, the first appearances are apparently what makes the world go round in collecting nowadays.  

[oakenfelder]

When I started really paying attention to this stuff in the early 90's, the first appearances of Kitty and Dazzler were both considered the main reason to buy those 2 books. The storyline was not really that important. I can only imagine that it has stayed true for the past 30 years.

[Randall Dowling]

On 10/15/2021 at 5:17 AM, mec3437 said:

It doesn't matter the quality of the story, the first appearances are apparently what makes the world go round in collecting nowadays.  

It was ever thus.

[lou_fine]

On 10/12/2021 at 8:10 AM, D2 said:

It has been a common discussion I've read over the years regarding Hulk 181. Where many believe 180 to be the true 1st appearance of Wolverine, the collective horde have baptized 181 as the one to get.

 

Collecting is a fickle mistress.

Definitely the case here because if you take a look at Jimmy Olsen 134 where the 1-panel so-called first appearance of Darkseid is considered to be the key book and goes for big multiples more than Jimmey Olsen 135 with Darkseid's 1-page cameo appearance.  

[lou_fine]

On 10/30/2021 at 9:31 PM, Randall Dowling said:

On 10/15/2021 at 3:17 AM, mec3437 said:

It doesn't matter the quality of the story, the first appearances are apparently what makes the world go round in collecting nowadays.  

It was ever thus.

Not necessarily so because if you take a look at NY World's Fair 1939 with the first published appearance of Sandman, it goes for a whole ton more money than Adventure Comics 40 which had long been thought to be Sandman's first appearance when Overstreet first started out with his price guide.  

I guess this is where the following rule applies:

On 10/12/2021 at 8:10 AM, D2 said:

Further to Adamantium's point, once something has been cemented into place in respect to the collector's hierarchy, it becomes collecting law.

When it was eventually determined that NYWF 1939 was the actual first appearance for the Sandman even though this was obviously incorrect in Overstreet and the marketplace until the 90's or whenever, they then rationalized this price discrepancy by stating that Adventure 40 was the first "conceived and drawn" story which took precedence over his first published story in Adventure 40.  

[Readcomix]

Re: X-Men 137…. I remember reading that off the racks as an 8th-grader. The X-Men are about to fight for Jean Grey’s life. The Beast, an original X-Man, is with them. But he is very much an Avenger at the time. As they were decimated by the Imperial Guard, all I could think was why didn’t the Beast use his Avengers communicator to call for help before the showdown? 
Besides the Beast, the Avengers lineup at that time was Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Wonder Man, the Vision, the Scarlet Witch, Ms Marvel, Jocasta, Yellowjacket, the Wasp and Hawkeye. I STILL wanna see a What If where he gets that idea before the showdown! 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Readcomix
Typo