How 'bout a history lesson for the new guys. 6 6

[Buzzetta]

I’ve got no problem with pressing. It’s not restoration to me. 
 

But there are a few things that are omitted here.  CGC can absolutely determine THEIR own pressing because of the chain of custody in relation to in-house pressing. 
 

The issue is that they cannot determine the EXTENT of someone else’s pressing.  Therefore if they only labeled their own books it would merely lead to people submitting books to be pressed outside of CGC so there really is no need for them to shoot themselves in the foot. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Buzzetta

[Lord Gemini]

Yeah, I don't agree that pressing is restoration just as I don't see cleaning as restoration. I see restoration as adding something or replacing something to make the comic look better.

[joeypost]

On 11/4/2021 at 11:55 PM, kav said:

Heat and pressure change paper and ink.  Oakman is right.  For all we know as decades pass the pressed books will start degrading.  Ink fade and browning/brittling.

Once again, you are spot on. 

[joeypost]

On 11/5/2021 at 12:14 AM, Jesse-Lee said:

Is it possible for pressed defects to come back? Honest question I've been curious about. Like can the paper that had a bend or crease "revert" or anything?

Possible? Yes. But, this is largely due to rushing the pressing process and how severe the defects are. 

[jas1vans]

Here's a little bit of history (and it's even being brought to the present). There are a couple links in the more recent pages to even more history as well.

 

[Math Teacher]

On 11/4/2021 at 9:18 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I don’t like restored books.  A 9.0 book that’s been pressed into a 9.4 isn’t equal to a 9.4 that was preserved that way.  

What are some of the identifying signs that a book has been pressed? To my naked eye, I can't tell most of the time.

[Math Teacher]

On 11/4/2021 at 9:57 PM, Joe Peck said:

Yep,totally understand and agree it's "restoration", but if I was buying a book to bring home, I would want it to be in the best condition it could be.  I have art hanging on my living room wall, and it has been "restored", but it gives me no less pleasure when I examine the art.  Again, we each choose our own preferences, and I respect yours immensely, but I am willing to purchase "restored" works without prejudice, and I think that increases the market, and I believe THAT is a good thing.Thank you for sharing your opinion!

I prefer to avoid purple labels, but if restoration allows me to buy a GA/SA book that I couldn't otherwise afford, I would seriously consider it. Especially if the price is right, like half the price of an unrestored copy. For example, if I could get a copy of Detective Comics #140 (first Riddler) in restored condition, I would seriously consider purchasing if the restoration wasn't extensive. A low grade copy, CGC 1.8, sold for $9,000 in September, 2021.

[ramrodcar]

On 11/5/2021 at 5:45 AM, Shawn Everidge said:

Yeah, I don't agree that pressing is restoration just as I don't see cleaning as restoration. I see restoration as adding something or replacing something to make the comic look better.

I mean lets be real here, we don't want pressing to be restoration because there's a good outcome for everyone involved if it's not restoration (more high grade non-restored books, more business for cgc/pressers, more money when we sell, etc...).

I (conveniently) prefer to think of cleaning like washing and waxing my car; on a nicer car that's filthy, you want to keep it looking nice, same goes for a book. Likewise pressing to me is like paintless dent removal; there's technically no body work or paint done, just pop that ding right back out with a suction cup; when done well, it's in-perceivable.

Restoration is like mechanical reconstruction after car accident, e.g. paint, body work, frame straightening, etc...

My

Edited November 5, 2021 by ramrodcar

[shadroch]

Sure, you can apply heat so the books structure is affected at the molecule level, and subect the book to ungodly pressure and that isn't restoration, but trim off a microspot of bad paper and the book is ruined for ever.

[Lord Gemini]

On 11/5/2021 at 8:32 AM, ramrodcar said:

I mean lets be real here, we don't want pressing to be restoration because there's a good outcome for everyone involved if it's not restoration (more high grade non-restored books, more business for cgc/pressers, more money when we sell, etc...).

I (conveniently) prefer to think of cleaning like washing and waxing my car; on a nicer car that's filthy, you want to keep it looking nice, same goes for a book. Likewise pressing to me is like paintless dent removal; there's technically no body work or paint done, just pop that ding right back out with a suction cup; when done well, it's in-perceivable.

Restoration is like mechanical reconstruction after car accident, e.g. paint, body work, frame straightening, etc...

My

"Restoration" has gained a negative connotation in the comics world that means something more specific to me than what you might think of outside of comics. If you think of it as making something look nicer than it was before, sure, it's restoration. But personally, and I understand this is not everyone's definition, if nothing non-original is introduced (new staples, color touching, etc.), then it's not restoration as it applies to collecting comics.

[ramrodcar]

On 11/5/2021 at 8:39 AM, shadroch said:

Sure, you can apply heat so the books structure is affected at the molecule level, and subect the book to ungodly pressure and that isn't restoration, but trim off a microspot of bad paper and the book is ruined for ever.

By your definition you're stating that putting a box of comics in a florida attic in the summer for less than a day is restoration.

If applying heat without intent isn't restoration (attic), applying heat with intent isn't restoration either (pressing). Intent can't be the measure.

[sckao]

Yes. WHERE you live also contributes to how well preserved your comics are naturally. If you live in an arid climate, the humidity level in your area is different than say Florida. (We know humidity is used in the pressing process.) Living in areas with harsh winters or areas prone to flooding probably also introduce a lot of water into the air naturally. Extreme temperature changes to paper also may not be what you would consider  “natural” or beneficial.

Comics from a home of people who smoke also may have smoke residue or whatever other residue is in there.

 

[Mystafo]

On 11/5/2021 at 6:53 AM, joeypost said:

Once again, you are spot on. 

Now here's some real insight!  Joe, do you think this might be possible with even the most careful, pro level pressing?

[joeypost]

On 11/5/2021 at 10:53 AM, Mystafo said:

Now here's some real insight!  Joe, do you think this might be possible with even the most careful, pro level pressing?

You can. Change the appearance of a book simply by changing the ambient humidity it is stored in. If a book is pressed properly at 50% humidity levels in the room, and then stored properly in that same environment chances are very low any reversion will happen. Once you add outside variables, all bets are off. 
 

Regarding fading and color loss over time, my experience is the opposite. If the book is cleaned and pressed properly you can remove oxidation that tends to dull the gloss in the cover, making the inks “pop”.

Then again, what do I know. 

[shadroch]

On 11/5/2021 at 7:10 AM, ramrodcar said:

By your definition you're stating that putting a box of comics in a florida attic in the summer for less than a day is restoration.

If applying heat without intent isn't restoration (attic), applying heat with intent isn't restoration either (pressing). Intent can't be the measure.

Say what?

[Lord Gemini]

On 11/5/2021 at 9:44 AM, POS#1 said:

Plus, the way CGC defines Restoration: "Restoration is the act of adding foreign material to a comic book through certain techniques to return its appearance to an ideal or original state" is a complete CGC fabrication. They made this definition up themselves, so pressing would be acceptable,  as it was not the way Resto was defined at the time. 

And yet, I agree with their definition, so it is not a complete CGC fabrication. Your definition is not the be all, end all.

[Lord Gemini]

On 11/5/2021 at 10:31 AM, shadroch said:

Say what?

The process you describe can occur naturally, yet the comic will not be graded differently or considered restoration if said process is to the benefit of the comic's appearance.

[ramrodcar]

On 11/5/2021 at 8:39 AM, shadroch said:

Sure, you can apply heat so the books structure is affected at the molecule level, and subect the book to ungodly pressure and that isn't restoration, but trim off a microspot of bad paper and the book is ruined for ever.

 

On 11/5/2021 at 10:31 AM, shadroch said:

Say what?

I took the first part of your comment as you being sour that pressing is not restoration (and should be). My point is that I think we can all probably agree that a book being in heat/humidity/pressure without a press for days, weeks, years is not restoration. The method in which a book is subjected to heat/humidity/pressure is arbitrary.

Edited November 5, 2021 by ramrodcar

[Lord Gemini]

On 11/5/2021 at 11:05 AM, POS#1 said:

Fabrication as in they invented the term to allow for pressing. CGC intentionally undermined the established restoration standards to allow for another revenue stream. Their definition is self-serving, misleading, and bogus. They changed the definition to force the hobby to accept pressing.

It's the same as when CGC said you need to re-slab your books every 7 years. They made that up to try to secure another revenue stream. What do they say about it now? The exact opposite. 

You say self-serving, misleading, and bogus. I say accurate.

[chrisco37]

They (CGC) were very careful with their wording so as not to have pressing fall into the definition.  

Way back when CGC started, there were a select few that knew it was acceptable to CGC.  It wasn't out in the open.  Pressing was discussed on the boards and the when it was discovered that CGC was starting up CCS, the cat was out of the bag.   And CCS was discovered by someone looking at public domain.  There was no big announcement.  They were trying to to it under the radar (maybe only offering it to a select few?  Not sure).   But they definitely didn't advertise it.

The first person/dealer I recall offering it was Reynold Jay (this was even before the pressing debate really started).   He had a "CGC Prep Service".  He was cleaning & pressing books.  So some people certainly knew about it.  Ablue (an old time boardie) was an early advocate of it ("cleaned & pressed is the way to go") and he was soundly thrashed here for it by many (myself included).  Turns out he was 100% right.  

Once the genie was out of the bottle and CGC flat out said they didn't count straight pressing and/or dry cleaning ("wonderbread") as restoration, most people thought "if you can't beat them, join them".   There was/is simply too much $$$ between the .2's / .4's / .6's not to accept it.