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THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023)
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Started by paperheart,

3,126 posts in this topic

@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

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On 1/3/2023 at 1:32 PM, drotto said:

Because, in today's world winning an emmy for a comedy central animated show, writing one episode of a MCU show, and writing a comic means you have all the skills, and knowledge to write a major, big budget motion picture.  

 

I looked up his IMBD, he has written exclusively for TV, except for two Robot Chicken TV movies.  Most of what he is credited with have been very small and something the vast majority of the public has never seen. He has not done anything remotely close to this size or prominence. I am not saying he does not have talent, but he has no significant track record for this type of project.  So why would you give him this job.  Sorry, writing a movie screen play is a specific skill, there is no proof he has that skill. He may one day be a great screen writer, but his resume is thin to non existent when it comes to movies right now. Seems to me he should have a few movies under his belt before being given a big part in a $200 billion plus project.

 

Zeb Wells is not the only writer credited on The Marvels. The other writers are Meghan McDonnell who wrote some episodes of WAndaVision, and Nia DaCosta the director.

Also, Marvel Studios has a long history of employing writers and directors with limited experience in movies or TV or both. 

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drotto

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On 1/3/2023 at 1:40 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Zeb Wells is not the only writer credited on The Marvels. The other writers are Meghan McDonnell who wrote some episodes of WAndaVision, and Nia DaCosta the director.

Also, Marvel Studios has a long history of employing writers and directors with limited experience in movies or TV or both. 

Yeah, kinda makes it worse.  They need somebody leading the team with experience.  Writing some episodes of WandaVisin again does not prove you are ready to write a major film. There is a reason why traditionally, people have had to prove themselves in lessor but similar products before they leapfrog into major positions.  It is always good to bring in new ideas, but you still need mentors or experience in the nuances of different types of writing. MCU is leaving a wake of people who have shown they are not ready for prime time, or have been terribly mismatched to the project.

 

There are countless example of writers that are great at their primary form, but have failed to adapt to other writing forms. JK Rowling comes to mind, she writes great books, and is absolutely awful with screenplays. So being great does not always translate. 

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theCapraAegagrus

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On 1/3/2023 at 2:00 PM, drotto said:

There are countless example of writers that are great at their primary form, but have failed to adapt to other writing forms. JK Rowling comes to mind, she writes great books, and is absolutely awful with screenplays. So being great does not always translate. 

Geoff Johns. Excellent comic book writer, terrible movie writer.

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drotto

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On 1/3/2023 at 2:04 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

That would be Kevin Feige, who oversees all of it, especially The Marvels, a very important film for Marvels Studios. 

Kevin Feige who is obviously over extended at this point with the MCU underoing many changes, rewrites and delays, as 3 if the 6 shows slated to release this year have now been pushed back.  Likely, a good thing.

The Marvels will be the weakest of the 3 films next year's, and my gut says will have the lowest box office of the slated films, although it will be close with Quantumania.   Gardians 3 will be the best performing movie of the bunch. I still have zero confidence that the most divisive character in the MCU, combined with the title character from an underperforming D+ show, and a B storyline character from a second D+ show is going to perform well.  The ceiling on The Marvels is in the $650 to $700 million range.

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drotto

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On 1/3/2023 at 5:10 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Elissa Karasik, writer and story editor on Loki, is also a credited writer on The Marvels.

Again has two, count them two writing credits and  they are both TV. I am still puzzled by how this is enough experience to be given a lead writing role on a major movie.  No wonder the quality of writing is crashing in the MCU.  They are giving work to very inexperienced people, who have not worked their way up through the ranks, and proven they can turn out reliably good product. 

 

Would you want to  go to a doctor and need a major surgery, and they say, I have done this procedure twice?  Or hire a new graduate engineer to be the lead on designing your new sky scrapper? I know they are not exactly comparable, but that is basically what Marvel is doing.

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@therealsilvermane

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On 1/3/2023 at 2:00 PM, drotto said:

There are countless example of writers that are great at their primary form, but have failed to adapt to other writing forms. JK Rowling comes to mind, she writes great books, and is absolutely awful with screenplays. So being great does not always translate.

To keep this kind of pointless debate going, there are also "countless" examples of comic book writers who did just fine transitioning from comic books to film and television. Daniel Clowes co-wrote the adapted screenplays of his Ghost World and Artist Confidential comics. Comics legend Gerry Conway is partially responsible for the success of TV's Law and Order. Allen Heinberg, who co-created and wrote Young Avengers, wrote the Wonder Woman screenplay. J. Michael Straczinski created and produced Babylon 5.

Again, Zeb Wells is just a co-writer of a group of four writers of The Marvels. Every MCU film has multiple screenwriters credited. Iron Man had eight writers. That's how they work. Multiple writers contribute to an organic and narratively flexible movie whose story can and usually does change during production, all under the unifying vision of a good director. In this case, Nia DaCosta.

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@therealsilvermane

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About the sequel's name being THE MARVELS (as opposed to Captain Marvel 2: The Manifestation of the Marvels or something), and as it pertains to both the title and the apparent story...

After ending and beginning the year rediscovering Alan Moore's 1982 MIRACLEMAN (an old favorite of mine, one of the greatest comics stories ever written, and maybe the beginning of serious adult themed comics), I realized that for the MCU Carol Danvers' ongoing story, Marvel Studios is leaning into the character's original Fawcett Captain Marvel and Miracleman roots.

In the credits scene of the Ms. Marvel series finale, we see Kamala suddenly switch places with Captain Marvel. This could, at least, be seen as a reference to the Billy Batson/Captain Marvel and Mickey Moran/Marvelman dynamic. Mar-Vell and Rick Jones also had this existence dynamic for a short while in the early days, too.

The "Marvels" concept and title can also be seen as the MCU's version of Fawcett's The Marvel Family and the UK Marvelman Family. But rather than call Carol's team "the Captain Marvel family", it's being called "The Marvels". 

254852438_marvelfamily.thumb.jpg.8f2c07a9cd4de077cbdbd29fe8fc6076.jpg1145892025_marvelmanfamily.jpg.af26fc58c4cd47f9f0e1857e2b28af7e.jpg

1400904740_themarvelsstage.thumb.jpg.1e8e5ab55f071fdfa3872ba06d3db11a.jpg

 

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Cat

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On 1/4/2023 at 11:46 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

To keep this kind of pointless debate going, there are also "countless" examples of comic book writers who did just fine transitioning from comic books to film and television. Daniel Clowes co-wrote the adapted screenplays of his Ghost World and Artist Confidential comics. Comics legend Gerry Conway is partially responsible for the success of TV's Law and Order. Allen Heinberg, who co-created and wrote Young Avengers, wrote the Wonder Woman screenplay. J. Michael Straczinski created and produced Babylon 5.

Again, Zeb Wells is just a co-writer of a group of four writers of The Marvels. Every MCU film has multiple screenwriters credited. Iron Man had eight writers. That's how they work. Multiple writers contribute to an organic and narratively flexible movie whose story can and usually does change during production, all under the unifying vision of a good director. In this case, Nia DaCosta.

Allen Heinberg did television before Young  Avengers. That's how he landed the comics gig in the first place. 

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@therealsilvermane

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On 1/6/2023 at 9:49 AM, Cat said:

Allen Heinberg did television before Young  Avengers. That's how he landed the comics gig in the first place. 

Yes, you're right. Still, he's another writer who kind of counters drotto's "example of writers that are great at their primary form, but have failed to adapt to other writing forms."

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@therealsilvermane

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On 1/14/2023 at 3:55 PM, paperheart said:

is this more prestigious than a Razzie?

The Razzies have been around a long time and get fairly big recognition every year, so maybe not. But this Golden Tomato thing is just a recognition that Ms Marvel received outstanding reviews from critics across the globe. And it WAS an outstanding series. From a pure humanity story aspect, it’s among the best things Marvel Studios has produced. If James Cameron wants to talk family dynamics in film, he needs look no further than Ms.Marvel.

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Larryw7

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On 1/15/2023 at 12:43 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

. If James Cameron wants to talk family dynamics in film, he needs look no further than Ms.Marvel.

Judging by the box office , I really don't think James Cameron needs to take advice from anyone.

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