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THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023)
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Started by paperheart,

3,126 posts in this topic

drotto

drotto

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On 11/8/2023 at 4:26 AM, Bosco685 said:

"...full of girl power!"

This changes everything

Honestly, I would not care if it was a girl power movie. Those movies have an audience and a right to exist. The things is they present it like this in new or novel.  Everything MCU for the last 3 years has been girl power, and from a superhero movie prospective, that is not the bulk of your audience. 

 

Sound like yet another film, that does not know what it is, or who it's audience really is.  The other thing is the Fix It in Post mentality seems to be present in spades from the early reactions I have seen.  This is the reason for feeling like there are disjointed and missing sceens, thin feeling plot, and bad VFX.

 

Movies with a tight script before you start shooting, do not have these issues.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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On 11/8/2023 at 9:00 AM, drotto said:

Honestly, I would not care if it was a girl power movie. Those movies have an audience and a right to exist. The things is they present it like this in new or novel.  Everything MCU for the last 3 years has been girl power, and from a superhero movie prospective, that is not the bulk of your audience. 

 

Sound like yet another film, that does not know what it is, or who it's audience really is.  The other thing is the Fix It in Post mentality seems to be present in spades from the early reactions I have seen.  This is the reason for feeling like there are disjointed and missing sceens, thin feeling plot, and bad VFX.

 

Movies with a tight script before you start shooting, do not have these issues.

Nobody has an issue with "girl power" movies. I have 3 daughters, a step daughter and love all the women in my life. 

I also like pizza. 

But if people keep ramming pizza down my throat I won't like pizza anymore. It's that simple. 

The problem is not the message. The problem is the over-compensation of the message and that sort of thing breeds resentment and bitterness.

People are looking for art, not preaching. 

Until the art form becomes the driving force behind a story, it's going to continue to suffer. And it should.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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I'm well familiar with the mindset of loving to hate films before they come out.  I've seen it in these forums and in the fan "reviews" for films before anyone's even seen them.

But the volume of people both in these forums and in other places online who love to hate Captain Marvel and now The Marvels isn't something I've seen much, with one exception--Star Wars films have always drawn this kind of ire.  Any of them released after the original trilogy have a diehard set of haters who can't get enough of hating on those films.  But I get it--they were kids when they saw the original trilogy, they had adult-level criticism when they saw the prequels, and they complained about a million things that they didn't complain about when they were kids because they were, well, kids, and they didn't notice the same things back then.

I'm not as clear on why the Captain Marvel films are drawing so many pre-release haters.  hm  If you don't like something--or think you won't like something--the usual reaction is to ignore it.  For some reason larger numbers than I'm used to can't ignore these Captain Marvel movies--they feel compelled to just continually talk about how much they're going to suck before they come out, and once they're out they can't get enough of repetitively dancing on the imagined graves of those films.  And maybe this film WILL get buried by the reviews, but I really have no idea.  I do know that Captain Marvel wasn't a terrible film, but there was a HUGE amount of chatter about why it actually was an awful film separate from the general fan and critical response.

WTF is that--why do people do it?  Why do you guys who have dozens of posts in this thread already dumping on this film feel compelled to do it?  ???

Edited by fantastic_four
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NoMan

NoMan

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On 11/8/2023 at 7:23 AM, fantastic_four said:

Review embargo lifts in an hour and a half at noon EST, so the meta-review sites should start compiling them throughout the afternoon.

In all seriousness, what's a "Meta-Review site?"

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drotto

drotto

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Posted (edited)
On 11/8/2023 at 10:46 AM, fantastic_four said:

I'm well familiar with the mindset of loving to hate films before they come out.  I've seen it in these forums and in the fan "reviews" for films before anyone's even seen them.

But the volume of people both in these forums and in other places online who love to hate Captain Marvel and now The Marvels isn't something I've seen much, with one exception--Star Wars films have always drawn this kind of ire.  Any of them released after the original trilogy have a diehard set of haters who can't get enough of hating on those films.  But I get it--they were kids when they saw the original trilogy, they had adult-level criticism when they saw the prequels, and they complained about a million things that they didn't complain about when they were kids because they were, well, kids, and they didn't notice the same things back then.

I'm not as clear on why the Captain Marvel films are drawing so many pre-release haters.  hm  If you don't like something--or think you won't like something--the usual reaction is to ignore it.  For some reason larger numbers than I'm used to can't ignore these Captain Marvel movies--they feel compelled to just continually talk about how much they're going to suck before they come out, and once they're out they can't get enough of repetitively dancing on the imagined graves of those films.  And maybe this film WILL get buried by the reviews, but I really have no idea.  I do know that Captain Marvel wasn't a terrible film, but there was a HUGE amount of chatter about why it actually was an awful film separate from the general fan and critical response.

WTF is that--why do people do it?  Why do you guys who have dozens of posts in this thread already dumping on this film feel compelled to do it?  ???

Can only speak for myself.  The MCU though Endgame is solid good to great entertainment.   It was very high quality, well thought out, and some of my favorite movies of all time.  I have seen most of them multiple times, and they are my comic dreams come true.

 

After Endgame, I personally saw a drop in quality across the board, writing, characterization, stories, visuals, etc.  It was subtle at first, and there have been a few bright spots. I liked parts of WandaVision, parts of Loki season 1, and loved Spider-Man. But, more often then not, I became either indifferent to what I was seeing, or was disappointed. The MCU had lost focus, dropped in quality, and lost the magic. I still want it to get back to what it was, and hope that it will.

 

So how does this relate to "hoping for failure"?  At this point the trailers and everything I have seen about this film seem to indicate it is a post Engame MCU film and suffers from what I view as the same deficiencies. With little power to reverse this trend, all I can do is hope for failure, so the management at Disney is forced to re-evaluate and change course. They need to hit rock bottom, which means having  financial flops. This film is just the next prospect for this to happen, and hopeful the MCU finally realizing what they are doing is not working, and not financially viable. So with failure, hopefully there can be rebirth. I am also not going to spend money blindly supporting something I no longer find entertaining in its current state. 

Edited by drotto
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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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On 11/8/2023 at 12:02 PM, drotto said:

At this point the trailers and everything I have seen about this film seem to indicate it is a post Engame MCU film and suffers from what I view as the same deficiencies.

I agree.  But the other films from this phase for the most part didn't exceed 50 pages in length even long after they were released.  This one is over 100 pages and it hasn't even come out yet.  People are feeling more compelled to take a dump on this movie than any other from this phase.  Why?  ???

I'm not paying close attention to this film so it's certainly possible people have seen more about it than I have, but why that translates to "I MUST WARN OTHERS" to this extent is bizarre.  I wouldn't find it bizarre at all and would have chalked it up to me not paying attention to the film if the same thing hadn't happened five years ago when Captain Marvel released.

Edited by fantastic_four
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Ken Aldred

Ken Aldred

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On 11/8/2023 at 5:02 PM, drotto said:

After Endgame, I personally saw a drop in quality across the board, writing, characterization, stories, visuals, etc.  It was subtle at first, and there have been a few bright spots. I liked parts of WandaVision, parts of Loki season 1, and loved Spider-Man. But, more often then not, I became either indifferent to what I was seeing, or was disappointed. The MCU had lost focus, dropped in quality, and lost the magic. I still want it to get back to what it was, and hope that it will

I see it primarily as the studio’s equivalent to Perelman’s asset stripping attitude towards Marvel Comics product in the early-to-mid 90s. And a similar tedium toward copious, overwhelming amounts of poorly-executed (onscreen) drek is setting in.

Edited by Ken Aldred
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Ken Aldred

Ken Aldred

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I’ve been looking at some of the ‘just watched it’ reviews on YouTube.

They’re not good.

Edited by Ken Aldred
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paqart

paqart

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On 11/8/2023 at 10:45 AM, VintageComics said:

Nobody has an issue with "girl power" movies. I have 3 daughters, a step daughter and love all the women in my life. 

I also like pizza. 

But if people keep ramming pizza down my throat I won't like pizza anymore. It's that simple. 

The problem is not the message. The problem is the over-compensation of the message and that sort of thing breeds resentment and bitterness.

People are looking for art, not preaching. 

Until the art form becomes the driving force behind a story, it's going to continue to suffer. And it should.

Speaking for myself, I'm sick of "girl power". Particularly thanks to recent examples in the world of pro sports that underline how unrealistic it is. Also, I don't like how "girl power" is always at the expense of the men. The way Thor was treated by Waititi was disrespectful and made me cringe. The fact that Thor allowed it was just as bad. My opinion, in Ragnarok, when Thor realizes she is a Valkyrie, he should have had an Kenneth Branagh inspired Odin moment and said, "You are unworthy, you belong in this backward world full of depravity and utterly lacking in integrity." Then, he should have left her behind, never to be seen again. 

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paqart

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On 11/8/2023 at 10:46 AM, fantastic_four said:

I'm well familiar with the mindset of loving to hate films before they come out.  I've seen it in these forums and in the fan "reviews" for films before anyone's even seen them.

But the volume of people both in these forums and in other places online who love to hate Captain Marvel and now The Marvels isn't something I've seen much, with one exception--Star Wars films have always drawn this kind of ire.  Any of them released after the original trilogy have a diehard set of haters who can't get enough of hating on those films.  But I get it--they were kids when they saw the original trilogy, they had adult-level criticism when they saw the prequels, and they complained about a million things that they didn't complain about when they were kids because they were, well, kids, and they didn't notice the same things back then.

I'm not as clear on why the Captain Marvel films are drawing so many pre-release haters.  hm  If you don't like something--or think you won't like something--the usual reaction is to ignore it.  For some reason larger numbers than I'm used to can't ignore these Captain Marvel movies--they feel compelled to just continually talk about how much they're going to suck before they come out, and once they're out they can't get enough of repetitively dancing on the imagined graves of those films.  And maybe this film WILL get buried by the reviews, but I really have no idea.  I do know that Captain Marvel wasn't a terrible film, but there was a HUGE amount of chatter about why it actually was an awful film separate from the general fan and critical response.

WTF is that--why do people do it?  Why do you guys who have dozens of posts in this thread already dumping on this film feel compelled to do it?  ???

Possibly because the criticism is less related to the merits of the film than the fact it is perceived as unwelcome propaganda. I expected every MCU movie after Endgame to be awful for that reason. Instead, I found that almost all of them met my standard for being "good" movies. The only exception was Eternals, which suffered from the same flaws as John Carter of Mars. Excellent production values, but script, direction, and editing were boring. Of the remaining films, though they were all "good", I only enjoyed a couple of them because the political messaging was too annoying in the rest. One that surprised me was Black Panther. The reason is that I expected more political messaging than it had. I didn't like the film, primarily because several parts of it made no sense to me, but later learned that many of the things I didn't like are part of the original comic lore. 

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