THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[TupennyConan]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:46 AM, fantastic_four said:

--why do people do it?  

I don't think it is the girl power or the social focus or any of that cultural stuff, nor do I think it is whether CM is a good or bad movie, I think it is BL. Something about BL stirs folks-up. It is pretty weird. 

[jsilverjanet]

On 11/8/2023 at 1:12 PM, TupennyConan said:

I don't think it is the girl power or the social focus or any of that cultural stuff, nor do I think it is whether CM is a good or bad movie, I think it is BL. Something about BL stirs folks-up. It is pretty weird. 

rational thought and comic book fans (from the word fanatic) rarely go together

[Bosco685]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:46 AM, fantastic_four said:

WTF is that--why do people do it?  Why do you guys who have dozens of posts in this thread already dumping on this film feel compelled to do it?  

On 11/8/2023 at 2:12 PM, TupennyConan said:

I don't think it is the girl power or the social focus or any of that cultural stuff, nor do I think it is whether CM is a good or bad movie, I think it is BL. Something about BL stirs folks-up. It is pretty weird. 

 

I think the MCU hardcores drove this narrative everything else was bad - MCU was the savior of superhero films and all other studios should drive the same connected universe.

Sure, the early MCU films were fun. I had a great time with Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Avengers. But then that became a pass for slowly degrading standards and if anyone called it out they were noted as haters, misogynists, DC/Sony/Fox apologists. So that environment those fans created has helped drastically contributed to these expectations every MCU film should now be perfect - because they said they are.

So why do people fall for that narrative? Why do people force just their views of successful movies on others? WTH can't others just enjoy something different? See Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse and Spider-Man: Across The Spider-Verse for something that outshines the depth of the MCU.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Bosco685

[ymisbatg]

I'm going to see it this weekend.  I hope it provides some entertainment and makes me forget the daily stresses of my life.  I'll also take my wife along in hopes that she enjoys the show also.  I am expecting a "fun" movie with some action, humor, and maybe something I have not seen before.  

If I walk out saying "I shouldn't have spent money on the tickets", I might reconsider going to the next Marvel theatrical released movie.  But until then, I just want to have a good time.

[Bosco685]

On 11/8/2023 at 3:16 PM, ymisbatg said:

But until then, I just want to have a good time.

That's what this all comes down to. 

[Get Marwood & I]

We liked the comics when we were kids. They were ours.

Maybe she likes the films now as much as we liked the comics then. They're hers.

[musicmeta]

I plan on seeing this movie most likely in a couple of weeks.  Just too busy with other things going on right now.  I hope it's good. 

[fastballspecial]

Id like to know the spoilers if anyone does PM me. Otherwise I plan to see it next weekend or Sunday.
I spent decades wanting my comic book characters in film. Many here apparently have forgot that.

[Buzzetta]

On 11/8/2023 at 1:53 PM, paqart said:

Speaking for myself, I'm sick of "guy power"... Also, I don't like how "guy power" is always at the expense of the women.  

I switched the pronouns and wonder if you ever felt the same about the reverse regarding the previous decades of cinema.

Packy my good lad, as I told you once before, whoever she was, she said 'no' probably, many, many, years ago.  It's time to move on.  It's still affecting you. 

 

@jsilverjanet next time, just text me.  If I wasn't doing a meeting right now, I might have missed this.   

 

and just for fun... @greggy

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Buzzetta

[Buzzetta]

On 11/8/2023 at 5:06 PM, fastballspecial said:

Id like to know the spoilers if anyone does PM me. Otherwise I plan to see it next weekend or Sunday.
I spent decades wanting my comic book characters in film. Many here apparently have forgot that.

It's a headline on Yahoo.   If you really want to know... I basically ran into them and I had no plans of seeing this in the theaters because I am swamped and I still have not seen Ms. Marvel or She Hulk for that matter.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Buzzetta

[jsilverjanet]

On 11/8/2023 at 4:37 PM, Buzzetta said:

I switched the pronouns and wonder if you ever felt the same about the reverse regarding the previous decades of cinema.

Packy my good lad, as I told you once before, whoever she was, she said 'no' probably, many, many, years ago.  It's time to move on.  It's still affecting you. 

 

@jsilverjanet next time, just text me.  If I wasn't doing a meeting right now, I might have missed this.   

 

and just for fun... @greggy

 

[VintageComics]

On 11/8/2023 at 1:53 PM, paqart said:

Speaking for myself, I'm sick of "girl power". Particularly thanks to recent examples in the world of pro sports that underline how unrealistic it is. Also, I don't like how "girl power" is always at the expense of the men. The way Thor was treated by Waititi was disrespectful and made me cringe. The fact that Thor allowed it was just as bad. My opinion, in Ragnarok, when Thor realizes she is a Valkyrie, he should have had an Kenneth Branagh inspired Odin moment and said, "You are unworthy, you belong in this backward world full of depravity and utterly lacking in integrity." Then, he should have left her behind, never to be seen again. 

I actually refuse to watch the Thor movie, it looked so bad. And JIM was one of my favorite collecting runs of all time. 

I can understand how women in some circumstances may have felt "put down" looking back through the lense of the past. A look at bondage covers from the GA illustrate this as women are put into compromising positions for entertainment value, so that is definitely something to consider but it's also important to consider that the culture around an event or occurrence is just as important to consider as the occurrence itself, and roles change over time. 

For example, there was a time when the role of a man and woman were clearly defined through biological relationships. The man was the hero and the woman was the damsel in distress and BOTH MEN AND WOMEN generally agreed to those roles.

Those roles aren't as clearly defined these days but those are for INDIVIDUALS to work out among themselves, not for the media to work out for you.

Putting down ANY person to make a message more profound was always considered wrong, but these days it's the MO and it's completely counterproductive to the greater cause. You don't NEED to put anyone down to lift yourself up in this day and age, and quite frankly lifting EACH OTHER up is really the only strategic, productive and long lasting way to do it. 

We may go faster separately but we go further together. 

But if you predicate your ideology in lifting up some at the expense of others, you're just doing exactly what you're trying to prevent and creating new problems for the future.

Edited November 8, 2023 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

On 11/8/2023 at 2:12 PM, TupennyConan said:

I don't think it is the girl power or the social focus or any of that cultural stuff, nor do I think it is whether CM is a good or bad movie, I think it is BL. Something about BL stirs folks-up. It is pretty weird. 

I don't even know who she is.

Keep stirring. Or whatever it is you're doing. 

[VintageComics]

On 11/8/2023 at 4:01 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

We liked the comics when we were kids. They were ours.

Maybe she likes the films now as much as we liked the comics then. They're hers.

I fully support this, but feel it's important to say that it's not WHAT you do but HOW you do it. 

It was Nov 5th a few days ago and I posted an image of V with the words written "Remember, remember the 5th of November" on my SM and immediately two of my daughters wrote to me shouting "My favorite movie!"

It was so cute, but I understand why. Natalie Portman was the hero in that movie to them (and to me).

V, who we all thought was GOING to be the hero ended up just being a supporting character and before I'd read the story I didn't see that coming. 

I don't think ANYONE has a problem with heroines. V for V was brilliantly written, and well ahead of it's time frankly, but it was done with the purpose of telling the story well FIRST. And I think that's the main difference. 

 

[paqart]

On 11/8/2023 at 5:37 PM, Buzzetta said:

I switched the pronouns and wonder if you ever felt the same about the reverse regarding the previous decades of cinema.

Packy my good lad, as I told you once before, whoever she was, she said 'no' probably, many, many, years ago.  It's time to move on.  It's still affecting you. 

 

@jsilverjanet next time, just text me.  If I wasn't doing a meeting right now, I might have missed this.   

 

and just for fun... @greggy

 

This hypothetical is a false equivalency. We're discussing superhero movies where there is an expectation that, as in the real world, there is a male physical advantage. Switching it as you suggest would look normal, though there is no reason to belittle women at the same time. It is that aspect of these stories that bothers me more than anything else. Not so much that you have a "strong woman", but that at the same time, every man in sight is the butt of every joke, emasculated for the sake of mocking the man in the room because he is a man. If that were done to female characters in a role reversal, I wouldn't like it any more than the way it is now.

However, if you want to see truly strong female characters, they aren't in the MCU, nor in the last 15 years of filmmaking. The strongest female characters that I've ever seen are in Gone With the Wind, Goodbye Mr. Chips, Mrs. Miniver, All About Eve, Random Harvest, and Sound of Music. In more modern films, Linda Hamilton in T2, Sigourney Weaver in Alien, Julia Roberts in Erin Brockovich, and Sissy Spacek in Marie or Coal Miner's Daughter.

[troydivision1]

Brie Larson was so good in Short Term 12.
(which was directed by the director of Shang-Chi)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhS6tvSb0UQ

and also in Room
(which she won an Academy Award)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_Ci-pAL4eE

That being said, I am not a fan of the choices either she made for Carol Danvers.
Whether it be the script or Marvel mandates the lack of 'character' development in the first movie and her subsquent appearances have not delivered on the emotionality I know her capable of as an actor. 

[VintageComics]

On 11/8/2023 at 6:32 PM, paqart said:

This hypothetical is a false equivalency. We're discussing superhero movies where there is an expectation that, as in the real world, there is a male physical advantage. Switching it as you suggest would look normal, though there is no reason to belittle women at the same time. It is that aspect of these stories that bothers me more than anything else. Not so much that you have a "strong woman", but that at the same time, every man in sight is the butt of every joke, emasculated for the sake of mocking the man in the room because he is a man. If that were done to female characters in a role reversal, I wouldn't like it any more than the way it is now.

However, if you want to see truly strong female characters, they aren't in the MCU, nor in the last 15 years of filmmaking. The strongest female characters that I've ever seen are in Gone With the Wind, Goodbye Mr. Chips, Mrs. Miniver, All About Eve, Random Harvest, and Sound of Music. In more modern films, Linda Hamilton in T2, Sigourney Weaver in Alien, Julia Roberts in Erin Brockovich, and Sissy Spacek in Marie or Coal Miner's Daughter.

The Bridges of Madison County. 

Love that movie, and Clint Eastwood and Meryl Streep were full equals with each other, if not giving Meryl the edge, actually. If you think about that, with Clint being the absolute "man's man" in Hollywood, that's quite a twist. 

And in her own relationship, while she took the role of the "good, submissive housewife" it was easy to see who had the strength in that family's home. She had all the power in that home and sacrificed it all for her family. It's so subtle many may have missed it. 

That's the role of a hero. 

I'm do for a rewatch. What a flick. 

On 11/8/2023 at 5:37 PM, Buzzetta said:

Packy my good lad, as I told you once before, whoever she was, she said 'no' probably, many, many, years ago.  It's time to move on.  It's still affecting you.

Come on. Really? This is uncalled for in any setting an EXACTLY the point he was trying to make. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by VintageComics

[Buzzetta]

On 11/8/2023 at 3:08 PM, Bosco685 said:

I think the MCU hardcores drove this narrative everything else was bad - MCU was the savior of superhero films and all other studios should drive the same connected universe.

Sure, the early MCU films were fun. I had a great time with Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Avengers. But then that became a pass for slowly degrading standards and if anyone called it out they were noted as haters, misogynists, DC/Sony/Fox apologists. So that environment those fans created has helped drastically contributed to these expectations every MCU film should now be perfect - because they said they are.

So why do people fall for that narrative? Why do people force just their views of successful movies on others? WTH can't others just enjoy something different? See Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse and Spider-Man: Across The Spider-Verse for something that outshines the depth of the MCU.

So you are saying they all became Star Wars fans  

Interesting conversation related to this about people citing the character traits of Miles Morales.  What they said they disliked about Miles Morales is exactly the character traits that made Peter Parker a great character to being with.  Peter Parker has strayed so far from his core traits because they could not accept a married Peter Parker since the mid 90's that Miles has become a better Peter Parker than Peter Parker has become. 

Miles is a fun character to read.  Miles Morales' is the Spider-man behind the mask that kids imagine if not wish they were.

Peter Parker... not so much anymore.  Blame the clone saga, the "It's just magic", a marriage that may or may not have existed... and so on. 

[Buzzetta]

On 11/8/2023 at 6:32 PM, paqart said:

This hypothetical is a false equivalency. We're discussing superhero movies where there is an expectation that, as in the real world, there is a male physical advantage...

Not really when you are involving make believe super powers.  So your "false equivalency" once again is used  to suit what is tantamount to a beyond shortsighted, stymied, developmentally arrested, brand of usual pathetic knuckle dragging "wannabe" nonsense. 

You are beyond reproach. 

 

Like I said, whoever she was... maybe it's time to move on.   Or, did she emasculate you (sob face here).

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Buzzetta

[Buzzetta]

On 11/8/2023 at 7:04 PM, VintageComics said:

Come on. Really? This is uncalled for in any setting an EXACTLY the point he was trying to make. 

Imagine what I would say to him in person.