THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[VintageComics]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:22 PM, EastEnd1 said:

I never saw anything like this... nor have any of my old colleagues who I still speak with regularly brought any of this up to me.  

Have you not heard about ESG in general or just not in the Disney decision making process?

https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/app/uploads/2023/03/2022-CSR-Report.pdf

 

It HAS to be there, because that is the fundamental principle 800 of the world's largest corporations are united on, although it is backfiring. 

I read a great article last year how Wall Street was pushing FOR ESG investing with Larry Fink from Blackrock championing it (they manage $10 Trillion in assets and basically own most of the world) but that Wall Street has started pushing back because the investing strategy has been backfiring. 

Again, Bud Light and Disney as evidence. 

-------------------------------------------

Not sure how high up you were or your friends still are but it's obvious that it's real and I'm not making it up. 

https://www.sustainalytics.com/esg-rating/the-walt-disney-co/1008069810

https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NYSE/DIS/sustainability/

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

Edited in a link above. 

[N7 M31]

@VintageComics. Have you seen the movie yet?

[paqart]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:37 PM, VintageComics said:

Have you not heard about ESG in general or just not in the Disney decision making process?

It HAS to be there, because that is the fundamental principle 800 of the world's largest corporations are united on, although it is backfiring. 

I read a great article last year how Wall Street was pushing FOR ESG investing with Larry Fink from Blackrock championing it (they manage $10 Trillion in assets and basically own most of the world) but that Wall Street has started pushing back because the investing strategy has been backfiring. 

Again, Bud Light and Disney as evidence. 

-------------------------------------------

Not sure how high up you were or your friends still are but it's obvious that it's real and I'm not making it up. 

https://www.sustainalytics.com/esg-rating/the-walt-disney-co/1008069810

https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NYSE/DIS/sustainability/

 

Speaking of Disney, I knew some people there and was called in for interviews two or three times, none of which worked out. I know the reason had nothing to do with skills because I was hired right away at other studios looking for exactly the same skills and competing at the same level. What Disney wanted, and they as much as said it to me, was ideological conformity to their values. Even then (1998-2003 or so), "Disney values" had nothing to do with their public image. They were all about the exact agenda we see in their current offerings. It was very obvious from even the most cursory conversation with the people I knew there. Not only that, but it was pretty well known among others in the entertainment industry that Disney was possibly the most agenda homogenous shop in town. All the studios hired from any country that had the skills they wanted, any gender, any demographic you can imagine. If the skills were there, they got hired. At Disney, the difference was that everyone had a very similar ideology-based personality. The lack of disagreement there was eerie, like Stepford Wives eerie.

[VintageComics]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:42 PM, N7 M31 said:

@VintageComics. Have you seen the movie yet?

Not yet. 

I tend to watch stuff that I'm not too interested in passively while working or doing something else so I will likely watch it at some point. 

Why?

[VintageComics]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:44 PM, paqart said:

the difference was that everyone had a very similar ideology-based personality. The lack of disagreement there was eerie, like Stepford Wives eerie.

The entire planet has become an eerie Stepford Wives scene and what's scary is most think it's normal. Thank God my kids don't. 

[paqart]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:46 PM, VintageComics said:

Not yet. 

I tend to watch stuff that I'm not too interested in passively while working or doing something else so I will likely watch it at some point. 

Why?

Same here! This is why I still haven't been able to finish the Eternals. It is difficult to passively watch an interesting movie like Iron Man, but if it is boring, there is just no way. You get lost too easily and have no idea what is going on. SHIELD was like that for me after a few episodes, same for Falcon and the Winter Soldier, which I keep forgetting I've seen in its entirety. Apart from a scene with a shrimp boat, I have no memory of the series.

[1950's war comics]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:25 PM, paqart said:

Except, apparently, at Budweiser and Disney. That said, maybe some of these execs will be fired. There have been a few already. The marketing exec at Budweiser is gone, though the people above her are still in place last time I looked. I did read about some reshuffling at Disney recently that might spell trouble for K. Kennedy. Also, DEI officers fired at multiple companies, due to a perception they were affecting profits. So maybe, the changes have already started, but they haven't hit the audiences yet.

What I loved about Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America is that every one of them was the opposite of what I normally expect from Hollywood. It is a common syndrome, where Hollywood norms are evaded somehow for the first iteration of a project, but if it is successful, it is gradually forced to conform, as happened with Home Improvement, until it loses its audience.

Speaking of exec experience in Hollywood, I wasn't an exec, but was a senior manager at Sony and Universal. From what I saw there, the goal really was to make money. However, when I spoke to other people in the biz, like the producer who helped turn my comic into a TV series, I was informed about a lot of the behind the scenes negotiations that go into making a film. Some decisions have nothing to do with quality of script or earnings potential, but personal relationships between studios, studio players, and agencies the studios like to work with.

For instance, coming from Mace Neufeld productions (the group that made the thriller No Way Out with Kevin Costner), it is impossible to shoot a script that discusses certain subjects related to China. The reason is that the studios depend on the US military for permission to shoot military bases, personnel, and vehicles. If the studio crosses any of those lines, even if that movie doesn't require military assistance, that assistance is cut off for all other productions.

There are ideological themes that are pushed and others that are repressed, for reasons unrelated to potential box office. Sometimes it is a sacrifice of something that might make money for access on multiple other projects that will also make money, as in the example I just gave. Other times, like Mel Gibson's The Passion, it is more difficult to find a financial justification for passing on a project. It is similarly difficult to explain unnecessary and objectionable content placed in recent Disney/Marvel offerings, or even one of the new Star Trek reboots. Some of this may come down to naivete. That is, the people involved were thinking, "hey, we can't get an Oscar if we don't make the cast more diverse." They do it, thinking the audience won't care. At least, won't care enough to change their buying habits.

For the most part, they got away with this in the early MCU movies because the audience didn't care that much whether Nick Fury was white or black, and were perfectly happy with a sexy Pepper Potts and Black Widow even if they did behave less respectfully towards Stark in IM II than would normally be expected. A couple of movies that were serious missteps were the all-female Ghostbusters and the Wrinkle in Time film from Disney. Those looked like propaganda, not legitimate stories. By propaganda, I mean full-on L. Ron Hubbard Battlefield Earth propaganda. I know some Scientologists who loved Battlefield Earth, because it was the realization of long desired goal. They are the only people I know who liked it. The female Ghostbusters and Wrinkle in Time definitely had an audience, but it was miniscule compared to a normal Disney audience.

Those movies could have been perceived as an aberration, or excused with some of the "I don't want to look in a mirror" excuses we're seeing for The Marvels. Given the success of Disney parks and other projects, they could afford to give everyone a second chance. The lockdown may have created a situation where a lot of movies were greenlit and produced without an opportunity to exhibit them, and thus to derive audience feedback. Maybe that contributed to the long string of duds in recent years. However, at this point is must be obvious that the extra one percent Disney wanted to add to their existing audience cost them 66% of the bigger audience. If they keep this up, there is no way I believe they are making rational business decisions. Actually, I think they passed that point with The Eternals and are well into "they need to be fired" territory.

One last example. When I lived in Hollywood, I had a friend whose mother was a very well known actress. My friend was up and coming at the time is somewhat well-known himself today. On one occasion he invited me to see him and some of his friends perform at a popular comedy club on Sunset Boulevard. This friend happened to be a Scientologist, as were all of his friends. I had seen them perform before, and they were generally quite funny. On one occasion however, things didn't work out so well. Part of their act is to ask the audience for a word that they can base a skit on. Someone in the audience called out "psychiatrist." Unfortunately, it is a tenet of Scientology that psychiatrists are very bad people. The improv troop utterly failed at turning that word into anything remotely funny. It was embarrassing. From that moment, their show died. I wanted to sneak out of the theater.

The problem was that my friend's group was so out of touch with everyone else in the audience that they didn't realize how impossible it was to do that skit from their perspective and have anyone but themselves find it entertaining. Whoever is making creative decisions at Disney right now is like that. Out of touch, and harming everything she (?) touches. 

one of the more exceptional posts i have ever read on these boards !

paqart you really should somehow go more mainstream with your posts which are brilliant by the way as you are worthy of millions of followers 

[Nick Furious]

   This thread.  It must be what a seriously dysfunctional family feels like at Thanksgiving dinner.  Very impressed that it hasn't been locked.  No need for that, just let everyone punch themselves out. 

[paqart]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:49 PM, VintageComics said:

The entire planet has become an eerie Stepford Wives scene and what's scary is most think it's normal. Thank God my kids don't. 

 

[VintageComics]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:50 PM, paqart said:

It is difficult to passively watch an interesting movie like Iron Man, but if it is boring, there is just no way.

This is truly a great Litmus test. 

If I'm passively watching a movie and it gets interesting, I stop what I'm doing. 

Literally. 

I can be processing books and if an old MCU movie comes on, I stop what I'm doing. 

But when something I'm not interested in comes on, I don't what I'm doing. 

Great observation that I didn't even realize was happening, which leads me to my next question:

Why are people enjoying some of these movies and who is loving them?

[paqart]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:50 PM, 1950's war comics said:

one of the more exceptional posts i have ever read on these boards !

paqart you really should somehow go more mainstream with your posts which are brilliant by the way as you are worthy of millions of followers 

Thanks! For some reason, I have a tiny following on Twitter (218), despite the fact that my research gets millions of views when other people write about it. I think I'm doing something wrong. 

[VintageComics]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:50 PM, Nick Furious said:

   This thread.  It must be what a seriously dysfunctional family feels like at Thanksgiving dinner.  Very impressed that it hasn't been locked.  No need for that, just let everyone punch themselves out. 

I actually messaged Mike and thanked him for allowing the discussion and he replied.

God bless Mike, I was very much antagonistic towards him (it was a VERY heated time) but the past is water under the bridge and I am thankful it's allowed. 

[VintageComics]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:53 PM, paqart said:

Thanks! For some reason, I have a tiny following on Twitter (218), despite the fact that my research gets millions of views when other people write about it. I think I'm doing something wrong. 

You need a charismatic Stan Lee to your Kirby...and I think we should collaborate. 

I'm not kidding. I think that we could create a great product. The synergy is real. 

[paqart]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:52 PM, VintageComics said:

This is truly a great Litmus test. 

If I'm passively watching a movie and it gets interesting, I stop what I'm doing. 

Literally. 

I can be processing books and if an old MCU movie comes on, I stop what I'm doing. 

But when something I'm not interested in comes on, I don't what I'm doing. 

Great observation that I didn't even realize was happening, which leads me to my next question:

Why are people enjoying some of these movies and who is loving them?

I think it is the true believers of the agendas in question. As I've written earlier, I'll give any time travel movie a chance, even bad ones. I've seen a few that I stopped after five or ten minutes, but usually I'll go the distance. I remember one really weird one that I pretty much hated, but every time I was about to turn it off, something interesting happened. I think I turned it off after an hour or so. It involved a guy who was somehow both of his own parents and grandparents thanks to time travel, or something like that. Funny thing, I have also sat through some really bad early superhero fare just because they had superheroes in them. They didn't offend me at all, they just weren't very good. I'd prefer one of those to any of these new films.

[1950's war comics]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:54 PM, VintageComics said:

I actually messaged Mike and thanked him for allowing the discussion and he replied.

God bless Mike, I was very much antagonistic towards him (it was a VERY heated time) but the past is water under the bridge and I am thankful it's allowed. 

it is in all reality the single greatest/informative thread these boards have ever known in my time here !

the many clear examples provided have helped me to expand my knowledge and get a clear picture about the inner workings behind disney/marvel movies

[1950's war comics]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:58 PM, paqart said:

As I've written earlier, I'll give any time travel movie a chance, even bad ones. I've seen a few that I stopped after five or ten minutes, but usually I'll go the distance.

"The Fly" from 1986 is a brilliant, time travel horror movie 

[1950's war comics]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:53 PM, paqart said:

Thanks! For some reason, I have a tiny following on Twitter (218), despite the fact that my research gets millions of views when other people write about it. I think I'm doing something wrong. 

with your crisp and concise writings you definitely deserve 100X that many followers

[VintageComics]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:58 PM, paqart said:

I think it is the true believers of the agendas in question. As I've written earlier, I'll give any time travel movie a chance, even bad ones. I've seen a few that I stopped after five or ten minutes, but usually I'll go the distance. I remember one really weird one that I pretty much hated, but every time I was about to turn it off, something interesting happened. I think I turned it off after an hour or so. It involved a guy who was somehow both of his own parents and grandparents thanks to time travel, or something like that. Funny thing, I have also sat through some really bad early superhero fare just because they had superheroes in them. They didn't offend me at all, they just weren't very good. I'd prefer one of those to any of these new films.

Did you ever watch the movie Predestination?

If so, what did you think? 

[paqart]

On 11/13/2023 at 11:08 PM, 1950's war comics said:

"The Fly" from 1986 is a brilliant, time travel horror movie 

I just watched that about two months ago. I don't remember a time travel component. Do you mean the Cronenberg/Jeff Goldblum film? I do like the movie, but would have to watch again now because I don't remember time travel in that movie.
My favorite time travel movie is a low budget Canadian independent titled "ARQ."

Edited November 14, 2023 by paqart