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THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023)
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Started by paperheart,

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

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Posted (edited)
On 8/28/2021 at 4:49 PM, media_junkie said:

I wouldn't go that far.  Rotten Tomatoes has an audience score of 45%, Metacritic has an audience score of 29%, and IMDB has an audience score of 68%.  When someone says "A lot of people", it should be over 50% of people, I'd consider that a lot.  However of the big "three" review sites two of them have audience reviews of less than 50%.  Heck if you average all three together you still only get a total of 47%, so no, I don't buy that "a lot of fans" actually liked Captain Marvel.

Did it do great at the box office, absolutely, no denying that.  However I submit that it did the dollars it did because of the direct lead in from the pager scene of Infinity War, and that is was the last movie before Endgame.

Do I have "hard facts" to back that up, no.  Just like you don't have hard facts to support your "a lot of fans actually liked Captain Marvel", when based on the audience reviews scores above they didn't.

Okay. Let's take a closer look at those Captain Marvel "user reviews" and compare them with ACTUAL awful MCU films Incredible Hulk and Thor Dark World. Before that, let's put it all in the context that Captain Marvel got nearly an 11% user review at Rotten Tomatoes before her movie even released as a result of troll review bombing, forcing Rotten Tomatoes to disable the score and to no longer allow audience reviews before a movie's release.

Now, even to people who honestly didn't like Captain Marvel, I think most agree that CM is not a worse movie than Incredible Hulk or Thor Dark World. With that, the Rotten Tomatoes user review score for IH is 68%. The Rotten Tomatoes user review score for Thor Dark World is 71%. And yes, the Rotten Tomatoes user review score for CM is far below them at 45%. Now, looking at the Metacritic audience score, IH got a 7.1, Thor Dark World got a 7.0, and yes, Captain Marvel is far below them at 2.9.

What should this tell us? Common-freakin-sense tells us that Captain Marvel hater trolls continued to bomb the film with negative reviews at Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic after the film's release, giving her user review scores far far below even those MCU films that are universally acknowledged as bad movies.

Captain Marvel has her enemies, and there's no more obvious place to see those enemies at work than at the user review scores for RT and Metacritic.

 

 

 

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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On 8/28/2021 at 4:37 PM, media_junkie said:

I'm sorry, there is not a film out there by MCU, Warner, or really anyone that is worth seeing 191 times, much less 191 times in a one year span.  

He actually said this is how good MCU films are. Based on some sociopath who sat and watched the same film over and over and over. Can’t argue with that logic. If you do, you’re a hater of Brie Larson. I believe I’ve already stated I’m rooting for her and a good performance under new direction.

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media_junkie

media_junkie

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On 8/28/2021 at 5:59 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Okay. Let's take a closer look at those Captain Marvel "user reviews" and compare them with ACTUAL awful MCU films Incredible Hulk and Thor Dark World.

Ok, those films could not have been that awful.  Both of them scored "fresh" via Rotten Tomatoes critic ratings of 68% and 66%.  So while you thought they were awful, obviously the critics and the audience both found them at least average to ok based on both critic and audience ratings.  Captain Marvel had a 79% "fresh" rating from the critics, so yes they enjoyed it, but obviously the audience did not.

 

On 8/28/2021 at 5:59 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Now, even to people who honestly didn't like Captain Marvel, I think most agree that CM is not a worse movie than Incredible Hulk or Thor Dark World. With that, the Rotten Tomatoes user review score for IH is 68%. The Rotten Tomatoes user review score for Thor Dark World is 71%. And yes, the Rotten Tomatoes user review score for CM is far below them at 45%. Now, looking at the Metacritic audience score, IH got a 7.1, Thor Dark World got a 7.0, and yes, Captain Marvel is far below them at 2.9.

What should this tell us? Common-freakin-sense tells us that Captain Marvel hater trolls continued to bomb the film with negative reviews at Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic after the film's release, giving her user review scores far far below even those MCU films that are universally acknowledged as bad movies.

Again, where is this universally acknowledged bad film info coming from?  Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic, and IMDB all give Incredible Hulk good critic reviews and good audience reviews.  Rotten Tomatoes and IMDB give Thor 2 good critic reviews and audience reviews while Metacritic give it average critic reviews and good audience reviews.  Those are facts, you can easily look them up, so please point me in the direction of where I can look that says with some type of data that Incredible Hulk and Thor 2 are "universally acknowledged as bad movies.".

What I am seeing is that when it comes to a film you obviously like if the critic reviews and the audience reviews are in line with your opinions then everything is legit.  However if the critic review or the audience review does not fit your narrative for a film then obviously something is wrong/hacked and it is not to be believed.  There in lies the problem, you either have to trust all the numbers or you don't trust any of them, you don't get to just pick and choose because the numbers don't fit your narrative. 

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D84

D84

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I've probably seen Raiders of the Lost Ark 191 times over the last 40 years, if you count times I was flipping through channels and thought I'll watch this one scene, and ended up watching the whole thing.

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

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On 8/28/2021 at 7:31 PM, media_junkie said:

What I am seeing is that when it comes to a film you obviously like if the critic reviews and the audience reviews are in line with your opinions then everything is legit.  However if the critic review or the audience review does not fit your narrative for a film then obviously something is wrong/hacked and it is not to be believed.  There in lies the problem, you either have to trust all the numbers or you don't trust any of them, you don't get to just pick and choose because the numbers don't fit your narrative. 

Hm, by that logic of numbers always being right, was Captain Marvel's Rotten Tomatoes user review score of 11% before the movie was released given by thousands of honest fans who somehow got a screener copy of Captain Marvel before its theatrical release and thus an honest opinion by moviegoers of the film's quality? If you're not sure, I'll help. No. They hadn't seen the movie yet and didn't care if it was going to be good or bad. These thousands of trolls had an ideological agenda against Brie Larson and Captain Marvel and were determined to bring down her RT score and only returned for more once the movie actually released.

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media_junkie

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On 8/28/2021 at 7:52 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Hm, by that logic of numbers always being right, was Captain Marvel's Rotten Tomatoes user review score of 11% before the movie was released given by thousands of honest fans who somehow got a screener copy of Captain Marvel before its theatrical release and thus an honest opinion by moviegoers of the film's quality? If you're not sure, I'll help. No

And by what you stated earlier that caused Rotten Tomatoes to scrub those numbers and not open audience reviews up until after the movie has released (also I am not sure if this was about the time that RT made it so you had to have an account to post a review or not, I know for the longest time it was like the wild wild west and anyone could post at anytime).  

So again, we are back at the part where you either believe the numbers or you don't.  If you think the numbers are compromised and cannot be trusted for that movie and the site is wrong, then you cannot at a later date say with a straight face that you trust the numbers for a different movie.  All or nothing when it comes to using them as your "verifying data".

Also I noticed you didn't supply any data to back up your Hulk/Thor 2 claim of being "universally acknowledge as being bad movies".

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@therealsilvermane

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On 8/28/2021 at 8:00 PM, media_junkie said:

If you think the numbers are compromised and cannot be trusted for that movie and the site is wrong, then you cannot at a later date say with a straight face that you trust the numbers for a different movie.  All or nothing when it comes to using them as your "verifying data".

The current user review numbers for Captain Marvel are compromised because it was already shown that a segment of RT users already had an agenda to bring down her movie's numbers before the movie was released, and there was nothing to stop them from returning to re-bomb the movie's RT score once the movie was released and RT opened user reviews back up to the public. The ideological hate campaign against Captain Marvel and Brie Larson was well publicized and known about and the Rotten Tomatoes debacle was just a part of this very public hate campaign.

I can say with a straight face that the numbers for Thor Dark World and Incredible Hulk aren't similarly compromised because there was never an ideological hate campaign against Hulk or Thor or the actors like there was with Brie Larson and Captain Marvel and thus no reason to troll bomb their RT and Metacritic scores.

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media_junkie

media_junkie

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On 8/28/2021 at 8:09 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

The current user review numbers for Captain Marvel are compromised because it was already shown that RT users already had an agenda to bring down her movie's numbers before the movie was released, and there was nothing to stop them from returning to re-bomb the movie's RT score once the movie was released and RT opened it back up. The ideological hate campaign against Captain Marvel and Brie Larson was well publicized and known about and the Rotten Tomatoes debacle was just a part of this very public hate campaign.

I can say with a straight face that the numbers for Thor Dark World and Incredible Hulk aren't similarly compromised because there was never an ideological hate campaign against Hulk or Thor or the actors like there was with Brie Larson and Captain Marvel and thus no reason to troll bomb their RT and Metacritic scores.

I just find that it is really convenient on the one movie/character that you champion day in and day out that when the numbers don't line up with your way of thinking then they are wrong.  Full stop, no matter what.  Anyone that didn't like the movie was part of a well orchestrated hate campaign to take it and the actress down.

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@therealsilvermane

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On 8/28/2021 at 8:00 PM, media_junkie said:

Also I noticed you didn't supply any data to back up your Hulk/Thor 2 claim of being "universally acknowledge as being bad movies".

It's hard to really supply data for something like that as no real studies are done for it other than "user reviews" at RT and Metacritic which is what we're debating. I get my info on fan sentiment from social media like Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit. For instance, from a random search, here was a question posed on Reddit to MCU fans on "what their top 5 least favorite MCU films are." A random look at the answers reveals a general sentiment...

1344123472_worstMCUfilmslist.thumb.JPG.f7620907c822b0564ad72ba80fdf7c3b.JPG431118708_worstMCU2.thumb.JPG.29aa6b6a40bafead53fa6c85c01e6029.JPG

...that MCU fans generally universally dislike Thor Dark World and Incredible Hulk across the board.

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media_junkie

media_junkie

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On 8/28/2021 at 8:26 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

It's hard to really supply data for something like that as no real studies are done for it other than "user reviews" at RT and Metacritic which is what we're debating. I get my info on fan sentiment from social media like Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit. For instance, from a random search, here was a question posed on Reddit to MCU fans on "what their top 5 least favorite MCU films are." A random look at the answers reveals a general sentiment...

1344123472_worstMCUfilmslist.thumb.JPG.f7620907c822b0564ad72ba80fdf7c3b.JPG431118708_worstMCU2.thumb.JPG.29aa6b6a40bafead53fa6c85c01e6029.JPG

...that MCU fans generally universally dislike Thor Dark World and Incredible Hulk across the board.

Ok, but based on what you just pulled, Captain Marvel is the 3rd most disliked movie.  I'm using the exact same data as you.  However you claim Hulk and Thor 2 are legit bad movies because of an "informal poll" on facebook/reddit, yet when Captain Marvel is showing up quite often in the exact same information you are using to discredit Hulk and Thor 2 then the data doesn't count?  Because there was a concentrated effort to shut down the movie because of woman-haters and such?  

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@therealsilvermane

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On 8/28/2021 at 8:39 PM, media_junkie said:

Ok, but based on what you just pulled, Captain Marvel is the 3rd most disliked movie.  I'm using the exact same data as you.  However you claim Hulk and Thor 2 are legit bad movies because of an "informal poll" on facebook/reddit, yet when Captain Marvel is showing up quite often in the exact same information you are using to discredit Hulk and Thor 2 then the data doesn't count?  Because there was a concentrated effort to shut down the movie because of woman-haters and such?  

Actually, according to the Reddit lists I posted, Thor is the 3rd most disliked movie, and Captain Marvel and Ant-Man Wasp tied for 4th. But almost every list has Thor 2 or IH. The  only reason I posted the above sampling from Reddit users is to show that in a general online conversation amongst MCU fans online, Thor 2 and Incredible Hulk seem to generally be the two most disliked MCU films. Look, I'm a harcore MCU fan. I talk with other MCU fans, online and in person. We all kind of universally agree that the two worst MCU films are Incredible Hulk and Thor 2. Even Disney knows they're bad. They're so bad, they recast the Hulk actor and for Thor they completely changed his character for the third movie and made him funny.

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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@therealsilvermane

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On 8/28/2021 at 7:30 PM, Scam Likely said:

He actually said this is how good MCU films are. Based on some sociopath who sat and watched the same film over and over and over. Can’t argue with that logic. If you do, you’re a hater of Brie Larson. I believe I’ve already stated I’m rooting for her and a good performance under new direction.

I was joking.

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media_junkie

media_junkie

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On 8/28/2021 at 9:07 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

We all kind of universally agree that the two worst MCU films are Incredible Hulk and Thor 2.

Ok, so despite me pointing out that RT, Metacritic, and IMDB give IH and Thor 2 average to good scores in both Critic and Audience scores we are told disregard that because Silverman and his friends are the spokespeople for the entire MCU.  

On 8/28/2021 at 5:59 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

What should this tell us? Common-freakin-sense tells us that Captain Marvel hater trolls continued to bomb the film with negative reviews at Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic after the film's release, giving her user review scores far far below even those MCU films that are universally acknowledged as bad movies.

Shut down Rotten Tomatoes boys.  Turn off the lights Metacritic.  Closing time IMDB, Silvermane and his buddies have spoken, you three are no longer needed.

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Bosco685

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On 8/28/2021 at 11:05 PM, Larryw7 said:

The reason Edward Norton was replaced by Mark Ruffalo is because Norton was a prima donna and hard to work with. Nothing to do with the movie itself.

Exactly!

 Here's why Mark Ruffalo replaced Edward Norton as Marvel's Hulk

Quote

Edward Norton, who played the Hulk in Marvel's 'The Incredible Hulk' was replaced by Mark Ruffalo after coming to disagreements with Marvel Studios President Kevin Feige.

 

After the release of the film in 2008, reports emerged which stated that Norton was hard to work with on set, as the actor even insisted on writing the -script himself.

 

"I tried to be like you. I did a big action movie called The Incredible Hulk. You know what went wrong? I wanted a better -script," Norton had said during the roast of Bruce Willis.

 

Feige himself released a statement which clarified why Norton was sacked. "Our decision is definitely not based on monetary factors, but instead rooted in the need for an actor who embodies the creativity and collaborative spirit of our other talented cast members," he said.

He even forced Marvel Studios to allow him to rewrite the -script ONE MONTH before actual production. Mainly because he felt it wasn't up to his standards. Which with Norton this has been noted as one of his traits in controlling the creative process.

Or as social media film experts would term this 'details to be ignored during a debate not fitting our current narrative'.

:insane:

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