THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[@therealsilvermane]

On the other hand, Chad, the Iron Man cosplayer, is the protagonist of this little movie, because Angus won't stop being a jerk.

 

[Bosco685]

22 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Yeah, and this description isn't what the movie is really about. The Avengers are pitted in physical combat against each other because Captain America is protecting Bucky who got framed for something he didn't do. Team Iron Man and Team Cap aren't fighting on the streets of Bucharest or at the airport or at the abandoned HYDRA base because of an ideological difference about government oversight and accountability. They're fighting over Bucky. And in this fight, Steve Rogers is right and Tony Stark is wrong. Stark even admits he was wrong until they start fighting over Bucky again after Stark sees the security video of his parents getting killed.

 

3 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Just because Disney or whoever wrote this blurb for Civil War to try to get people to watch the movie doesn't mean this is the logline the writers used when writing the movie or what the directors always referenced when directing the story for camera. This VUDU movie description could describe the argument the Avengers are having when they're first introduced to the Accords at the group meeting with General Ross at the start of the movie. After that, it's all about Captain America sticking up for his friend Bucky when all the other super-heroes and police are trying to apprehend Bucky. And while the Avengers breaking up was an important reason for the existence of this movie (so that Thanos could more easily defeat them), the break-up was more an end of movie consequence of Stark feeling betrayed by Steve Rogers because of, you guessed it, Bucky. Not the Segovia Accords.

Even when facts are clearly presented to you where Disney submitted the description it wanted VUDU to reference (the studios own the content on these sites - not the 'rental resellers'), your default is to deny the obvious.

[Bosco685]

[Gatsby77]

20 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Just because Disney or whoever wrote this blurb for Civil War to try to get people to watch the movie doesn't mean this is the logline the writers used when writing the movie or what the directors always referenced when directing the story for camera. This VUDU movie description could describe the argument the Avengers are having when they're first introduced to the Accords at the group meeting with General Ross at the start of the movie. After that, it's all about Captain America sticking up for his friend Bucky when all the other super-heroes and police are trying to apprehend Bucky. And while the Avengers breaking up was an important reason for the existence of this movie (so that Thanos could more easily defeat them), the break-up was more an end of movie consequence of Stark feeling betrayed by Steve Rogers because of, you guessed it, Bucky. Not the Segovia Accords.

Okay - how about this - this is literally the official plot synopsis Marvel itself released for the movie in late 2015 (pre-release). Ironically, it mirrors the comic storyline summary exactly. Literally no mention of Bucky, or (Avengers villain) Zemo - but four mentions of the Avengers.

Marvel’s “Captain America: Civil War” finds Steve Rogers leading the newly formed team of Avengers in their continued efforts to safeguard humanity. But after another incident involving the Avengers results in collateral damage, political pressure mounts to install a system of accountability, headed by a governing body to oversee and direct the team. The new status quo fractures the Avengers, resulting in two camps—one led by Steve Rogers and his desire for the Avengers to remain free to defend humanity without government interference, and the other following Tony Stark’s surprising decision to support government oversight and accountability

Edited June 2, 2021 by Gatsby77

[@therealsilvermane]

4 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Okay - how about this - this is literally the official plot synopsis Marvel itself released for the movie in late 2015 (pre-release). Ironically, it mirrors the comic storyline summary exactly, albeit with the Steve Rogers and Tony Stark roles reversed. Literally no mention of Bucky, or (Avengers villain) Zemo - but four mentions of the Avengers.

Marvel’s “Captain America: Civil War” finds Steve Rogers leading the newly formed team of Avengers in their continued efforts to safeguard humanity. But after another incident involving the Avengers results in collateral damage, political pressure mounts to install a system of accountability, headed by a governing body to oversee and direct the team. The new status quo fractures the Avengers, resulting in two camps—one led by Steve Rogers and his desire for the Avengers to remain free to defend humanity without government interference, and the other following Tony Stark’s surprising decision to support government oversight and accountability

Again, even though this was part of Disney's official marketing written by the marketing team, it doesn't give away the actual plot of the movie as written by the film's writers. It doesn't give away that the actual reason Tony Stark and Steve Rogers are physically fighting and cause the break-up of the Avengers in the end is over Steve protecting Bucky after he got framed by Zemo, not because of disagreements over government oversight.

Edited June 2, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[Gatsby77]

3 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Again, even though this was part of Disney's official marketing written by the marketing team, it doesn't give away the actual plot of the movie as written by the film's writers. It doesn't give away that the actual reason Tony Stark and Steve Rogers are physically fighting and cause the break-up of the Avengers in the end is over Steve protecting Bucky after he got framed by Zemo, not because of disagreements over government oversight.

No - you're talking about one scene - the climax of the film at Zemo's lair.

Which ignores, oh i dunno...the entire plot of the film up until that point.

Marvel itself structured, marketed and continues to market this as an Avengers film.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Civil War is definitely an Avengers vs Secret Avengers movie, which is why I was always puzzled by the "Captain America" title. Steve and Bucky's relationship drives the plot, sure, but it's truly a They vs Them movie. It's kinda how Stark drives the plot for Age of Ultron. It's not Iron Man 4, though.

Fun fact: Steve Rogers has exactly 1 minute more screen time than Tony Stark in Civil War.

[drotto]

I love when people dig a hole, claim they did not dig a hole, get stuck in the hole, and look up from the bottom of the hole proclaiming what hole.

[Bosco685]

25 minutes ago, drotto said:

I love when people dig a hole, claim they did not dig a hole, get stuck in the hole, and look up from the bottom of the hole proclaiming what hole.

Join the block crowd with him. The silence is just fine!

[@therealsilvermane]

14 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Join the block crowd with him. The silence is just fine!

Aw, who's going to constantly accuse me of stoking the Marvel vs DC debate when I hardly mention DC at all because they're not worth mentioning? I hope someone steps up. Meanwhile, getting back to my argument...

[@therealsilvermane]

21 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

No - you're talking about one scene - the climax of the film at Zemo's lair.

Which ignores, oh i dunno...the entire plot of the film up until that point.

Marvel itself structured, marketed and continues to market this as an Avengers film.

 

8 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Civil War is definitely an Avengers vs Secret Avengers movie, which is why I was always puzzled by the "Captain America" title. Steve and Bucky's relationship drives the plot, sure, but it's truly a They vs Them movie. It's kinda how Stark drives the plot for Age of Ultron. It's not Iron Man 4, though.

Fun fact: Steve Rogers has exactly 1 minute more screen time than Tony Stark in Civil War.

Obviously we're never going to see eye to eye on this debate. I'll give one last post though explaining why Civil War is distinctly a Captain America movie and not an Avengers movie, even though it's officially part of the Captain America sub-franchise.

I advise you to watch Civil War like I did recently.

First the obvious, it has Captain America in the freaking title. Also, nowhere in Civil War do we hear the familiar Avengers theme as in actual Avengers movies. It's Captain America music in Civil War.

@Gatsby77 Civil War begins with Bucky, a Captain America character, being brainwashed to prepare for an assassination. We then get the Lagos Avengers mission with Cap in charge. The Avengers are in this movie because he is the leader of the Avengers. That's his life and there's not much else.

Yes, we do segue to a long scene with Tony Stark (which accounts for most of the Stark minutes that theCapraAg references), but this scene serves mostly to introduce his mother(who gets killed, adding to Stark's thirst for revenge) and to establish Stark's position on oversight which will conflict with Cap's position. After these scenes with Stark, the primary times we see Stark are when he is an antagonist to Steve Rogers. Twice when Stark tries to get Steve to sign the Accords and another two times when Stark is physically fighting Steve over apprehending Bucky at the airport or trying to kill Bucky in Siberia. We don't even see Stark in his Iron Man suit until one and a half hours into the movie at the airport battle.

Stark has a solo scene with Peter Parker, but the purpose of this scene to the story is so that Stark can obtain another obstacle (Spider-Man) to Steve's mission.

The battle at the airport is totally about Team Iron Man, under orders from General Ross, to apprehend Bucky.

So for the majority of the hour and a half of Civil War before the airport scene, the movie's bulk is composed of scenes that:

A. Involve Steve Rogers personal life (the death of Peggy Carter and romancing Sharon Carter ew) 

B. Involve Zemo, a CA villain attempting to frame and manipulate Bucky, Captain Rogers' best friend.

C. Involve Bucky, Cap's best friend, running from the law and being chased/saved by Cap (a scene that mirrors the end of WInter Soldier when Bucky saves Steve).

Throughout Civil War, Steve Rogers and Tony Stark are not equals story-wise. The bulk of the film involves either Steve's personal life or characters like Zemo or Bucky who are tied to Captain America's world. Cap's mission in Civil War, to find out who is behind framing Bucky is the main goal of the movie. Tony Stark, General Ross, and Zemo are the obstacles to that mission. Yes, the ideological differences of oversight are there, but Tony and Steve would still have been at odds over Bucky with or without the Sokovia Accords.

That Natasha helps Steve and Bucky escape and Tony briefly aids Steve and Bucky in Siberia shows you how much they really care about the Accords and government oversight. Stark is ready to aid them 100% until he learns that Bucky killed his parents.

The movie ends with Steve Rogers freeing the arrested Avengers and post credit scene is Steve and Bucky in Wakanda.

Captain America Civil War is 100% a Captain America movie. If you are still in denial, watch the movie again with my above points in mind and you will see that I'm right.

[drotto]

48 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

 

Obviously we're never going to see eye to eye on this debate. I'll give one last post though explaining why Civil War is distinctly a Captain America movie and not an Avengers movie, even though it's officially part of the Captain America sub-franchise.

I advise you to watch Civil War like I did recently.

First the obvious, it has Captain America in the freaking title. Also, nowhere in Civil War do we hear the familiar Avengers theme as in actual Avengers movies. It's Captain America music in Civil War.

@Gatsby77 Civil War begins with Bucky, a Captain America character, being brainwashed to prepare for an assassination. We then get the Lagos Avengers mission with Cap in charge. The Avengers are in this movie because he is the leader of the Avengers. That's his life and there's not much else.

Yes, we do segue to a long scene with Tony Stark (which accounts for most of the Stark minutes that theCapraAg references), but this scene serves mostly to introduce his mother(who gets killed, adding to Stark's thirst for revenge) and to establish Stark's position on oversight which will conflict with Cap's position. After these scenes with Stark, the primary times we see Stark are when he is an antagonist to Steve Rogers. Twice when Stark tries to get Steve to sign the Accords and another two times when Stark is physically fighting Steve over apprehending Bucky at the airport or trying to kill Bucky in Siberia. We don't even see Stark in his Iron Man suit until one and a half hours into the movie at the airport battle.

Stark has a solo scene with Peter Parker, but the purpose of this scene to the story is so that Stark can obtain another obstacle (Spider-Man) to Steve's mission.

The battle at the airport is totally about Team Iron Man, under orders from General Ross, to apprehend Bucky.

So for the majority of the hour and a half of Civil War before the airport scene, the movie's bulk is composed of scenes that:

A. Involve Steve Rogers personal life (the death of Peggy Carter and romancing Sharon Carter ew) 

B. Involve Zemo, a CA villain attempting to frame and manipulate Bucky, Captain Rogers' best friend.

C. Involve Bucky, Cap's best friend, running from the law and being chased/saved by Cap (a scene that mirrors the end of WInter Soldier when Bucky saves Steve).

Throughout Civil War, Steve Rogers and Tony Stark are not equals story-wise. The bulk of the film involves either Steve's personal life or characters like Zemo or Bucky who are tied to Captain America's world. Cap's mission in Civil War, to find out who is behind framing Bucky is the main goal of the movie. Tony Stark, General Ross, and Zemo are the obstacles to that mission. Yes, the ideological differences of oversight are there, but Tony and Steve would still have been at odds over Bucky with or without the Sokovia Accords.

That Natasha helps Steve and Bucky escape and Tony briefly aids Steve and Bucky in Siberia shows you how much they really care about the Accords and government oversight. Stark is ready to aid them 100% until he learns that Bucky killed his parents.

The movie ends with Steve Rogers freeing the arrested Avengers and post credit scene is Steve and Bucky in Wakanda.

Captain America Civil War is 100% a Captain America movie. If you are still in denial, watch the movie again with my above points in mind and you will see that I'm right.

By your logic then Captain Marvel did lose her number one billing and get demoted when the name was changed to the Marvels.  I think Captain America Civil War is a pure Captain movie in name only, as is evidenced by watching the film, as well as how the movie was advertised. Therefor, Marvels is now officially a team movie.

[@therealsilvermane]

22 minutes ago, drotto said:

I think Captain America Civil War is a pure Captain movie in name only, as is evidenced by watching the film, as well as how the movie was advertised.

Here is the first trailer for Civil War. It certainly looks like a Captain America movie to me from this trailer.

 

[@therealsilvermane]

36 minutes ago, drotto said:

I think Captain America Civil War is a pure Captain movie in name only, as is evidenced by watching the film, as well as how the movie was advertised.

Here is the second and final trailer for Civil War that does show off that the Avengers are in the movie. But the way the trailer is edited still portrays Steve Rogers as the ultimate protagonist of this story and Tony Stark as more of an adversary to Cap. That the trailer towards the end has a beat-up Cap putting up his fists saying "I could do this all day" again points to Stark as the bully who Steve is up against.

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[@therealsilvermane]

1 hour ago, drotto said:

By your logic then Captain Marvel did lose her number one billing and get demoted when the name was changed to the Marvels.  I think Captain America Civil War is a pure Captain movie in name only, as is evidenced by watching the film, as well as how the movie was advertised. Therefor, Marvels is now officially a team movie.

It's not a one size fits all point of logic.

I've already agreed that The Marvels will obviously most likely be a TEAM-UP movie just as I've said every MCU solo film is actually a team-up movie. But even though The Marvels will feature Carol Danvers, Kamala, and Monica teaming up (or whatever), it will still be Carol Danvers' movie, just like Civil War was Steve Rogers' movie or Ragnarok was Thor's movie even though it was a team-up of Thor, Loki, Hulk, and Valkyrie.

Captain Marvel's name is in the title. What do you think "Marvel" in The Marvels stands for? It stands for Captain Marvel and a supporting cast (Kamala Khan and Monica Rambeau) who are influenced by Carol Danvers.

Yes, I realize that "Captain" is missing from The Marvels title. I know that I'm not changing your mind and you will continue to see the fact that the word "Captain" not being in Captain Marvel's sequel title counts as a demotion. It's cool. I'll continue to post rebuttals to that claim (which is gaining traction amongst Captain Marvel's naysayers I will admit), but in the end, we'll just have to see how Captain Marvel's story plays out over the next year and a half.

I still say Captain Marvel will be the head of a space division of the Avengers and Sam Wilson Captain America will be in charge of an Earth-level division of the Avengers.

Edited June 3, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[drotto]

7 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

It's not a one size fits all point of logic.

I've already agreed that The Marvels will most likely be a TEAM-UP movie just as I've said every MCU solo film is actually a team-up movie. But even though The Marvels will feature Carol Danvers, Kamala, and Monica teaming up (or whatever), it will still be Carol Danvers' movie, just like Civil War was Steve Rogers' movie or Ragnarok was Thor's movie even though it was a team-up of Thor, Loki, Hulk, and Valkyrie.

Captain Marvel's name is in the title. What do you think "Marvel" in The Marvels stands for? It stands for Captain Marvel and a supporting cast (Kamala Khan and Monica Rambeau) who are influenced by Carol Danvers.

Yes, I realize that "Captain" is missing from The Marvels. I know that I'm not changing your mind and will continue to see the fact that "Captain" not being in Captain Marvel's sequel film counts as a demotion. It's cool. I'll continue to post rebuttals to that claim (which is gaining traction amongst Captain Marvel's naysayers I will admit), but in the end, we'll just have to see how Captain Marvel's story plays out over the next year and a half.

I still say Captain Marvel will be the head of a space division of the Avengers and Sam Wilson Captain America will be in charge of an Earth-level division of the Avengers.

Wait so now you admit she will not be leading all of the Avengers, another demotion! That is progress.

[@therealsilvermane]

4 minutes ago, drotto said:

Wait so now you admit she will not be leading all of the Avengers, another demotion! That is progress.

This is just my prediction. It's Kevin Feige who said that Captain Marvel will soon be at the forefront of the entire MCU. Having both a Captain Marvel and a new Captain America at the same time creates "who will lead the Avengers?" scenario when there's currently a power vacuum in Avengers land. I think the best solution is to have both a woman(Carol Danvers) and a black man(Sam Wilson) lead the Avengers together. I'm all for sharing. And I think the MCU in Phase Four and beyond will be about that, too.

[Bosco685]

43 minutes ago, drotto said:

Wait so now you admit she will not be leading all of the Avengers, another demotion! That is progress.

You must enjoy counting to bricks. 

[Larryw7]

Ah, the ignore button...

[Bosco685]

5 hours ago, Larryw7 said:

Ah, the ignore button...

Amen to that!