New Tax Reporting ($600 Threshold per year) and Consignments 21 21

[Hamlet]

On 1/5/2022 at 11:00 AM, Shrevvy said:

I don't want people skipping out in paying taxes. What gets my ire up is that many people will pay taxes not owed out of fear and coercion from the IRS. I also don't think it is any business of the US Government (or anyone for that matter) on what I do with $600 (see the deposit/withdrawal legislation they tried to enact at roughly the same time).

You can see by the amount of confusion in this and the many other threads on this board on what taxes will be owed. How many times has donut and other said "you are taxed on NET not GROSS." And this is in a forum in which people are in the "buisness" of buying and selling (I use business loosely here). There will be many receiving a 1099 that will have no idea what it is other than they must pay taxes on the amount.

I can hold both positions. I want people to pay taxes they owe. I can also believe this is a poor and costly attempt at doing so. The mechanics are horrible and starting from a position of accusing everyone is guilty is even worse. 

If anyone truly believes that the "15%" (estimates vary widely on that number) underground economy lies between $600 and $20,000 for sellers on eBay, etsy, CL, etc, then they do not understand math.   

I agree that the $600 threshold is too low.  It is going to generate a lot of compliance work that just isn’t worth the very small amount of added revenue.  I really don’t think it makes sense for the guy working at McDonald’s who sells his ASM 300 on Ebay to now have to file a regular 1040 instead of the 1040EZ so that we can get $200 from him.  I think there should be a personal exemption of this type of transaction in the $2000/year kind of range.  The cost in actual revenue compared to the reduction in PITA for everyone ( sellers, PayPal/banks, and the IRS itself ) seems negligible.

[lizards2]

On 1/5/2022 at 9:19 AM, shadroch said:

Fear and coercion from the IRS? Wow. I'm not sure how to respond to that.    

It's very real.

[october]

On 1/5/2022 at 10:31 AM, shadroch said:

I recently read that about 15% of the economy is untaxed, so it is fair to say that 15 cents of every dollar you pay in taxes is to make up for some  people not paying theirs. Instead of getting angry at the government for attempting to collect these taxes, why not get mad at the tax cheats?

 

You have no problem with a person skipping out on the $44 due on your hypothetical sale. Fine, so what happens when a million people do so and now the taxes lost are $44 million? Does that get your ire up a bit?  If you make money, you owe taxes. Why is that something that needs to be defended?

No one here would think of going in to their boss and asking him to only tax you on 90% of the income he pays you. Why is that? 

 

I am significantly more outraged by the corporations that paid no income tax, or in some cases actually got tax rebates, on millions/BILLIONS in profits than I am some random guy not paying $44. I mean, really?

These laws are meant to squeeze every dollar out of low income individuals who don't have the resources or sophistication to fight back. It's MUCH easier to do that than fighting corporate behemoths with legions of lobbyists, lawyers and accountants. Should people pay their fair share? Sure. Is that what this legislation is about? Fairness? Nope.

Edited January 5, 2022 by october

[shadroch]

I'm sorry but that reminds me of the corner boys lamenting that the cops aren't going after the big fish and picking on them.   Defending illegal activity by attacking legal ones certainly is a great argument to make. What is really weird is if people took the time to learn what they can legally deduct, they would end up paying less but it is just easier to go on the web to person_without_enough_empathy instead of using the same tools to  educate themselves.

[october]

On 1/5/2022 at 12:24 PM, shadroch said:

I'm sorry but that reminds me of the corner boys lamenting that the cops aren't going after the big fish and picking on them.   Defending illegal activity by attacking legal ones certainly is a great argument to make. What is really weird is if people took the time to learn what they can legally deduct, they would end up paying less but it is just easier to go on the web to person_without_enough_empathy instead of using the same tools to  educate themselves.

Right. Because what's technically "legal" is all that matters. Convenient that the people with money/power/influence get to set the rules that let the people with money/power/influence off the hook in myriad ways. Rules are rules, after all. 

And those "corner boys" have a point. You are probably barking up the wrong tree if you are pointing towards our criminal justice system as a shining example of the right way to do things. 

[shadroch]

I'm not sure when doing the right thing for the sake of it being the right thing went out of style, but I'm glad I'm out of step with the rest of you. Shall we all ignore the laws we find inconvenient?  No one likes taxes, but everyone expects someone to be on the other end when you call 911. No one likes taxes, but then they get upset when their kids are using 1970s tech in their classrooms. 

[lizards2]

If 100% of the laws were enforced in this country, 90% of the citizenship would be in jail. You can't wiggle in modern life with out violating something.

You're just assuming that anyone that doesn't agree with your purposeful obtuseness is a tax cheat or criminal. Simply not the case.

My sadness about the current state of affairs (not just about any new tax situation, but that certainly has an impact) is the burden current conditions are having on the poor and lower-middle class

Edited January 5, 2022 by lizards2

[AGGIEZ]

On 1/5/2022 at 12:59 PM, shadroch said:

I'm not sure when doing the right thing for the sake of it being the right thing went out of style, but I'm glad I'm out of step with the rest of you. Shall we all ignore the laws we find inconvenient?  No one likes taxes, but everyone expects someone to be on the other end when you call 911. No one likes taxes, but then they get upset when their kids are using 1970s tech in their classrooms. 

Not all of us agree said rules are "the right thing". I think the federal gov should keep their hands out of our pockets as much as possible and spend the money they do take a hell of alot more efficiently. I'd rather handle the stuff you mention locally...not federally.

[october]

On 1/5/2022 at 12:59 PM, shadroch said:

I'm not sure when doing the right thing for the sake of it being the right thing went out of style, but I'm glad I'm out of step with the rest of you. Shall we all ignore the laws we find inconvenient?  No one likes taxes, but everyone expects someone to be on the other end when you call 911. No one likes taxes, but then they get upset when their kids are using 1970s tech in their classrooms. 

This is not a binary discussion. I can simultaneously feel that people should pay what they owe AND be disgusted by the uneven and unfair application of tax (or criminal) laws. Those are not mutually exclusive.

I filed my 1040 ES Q4 payment last week. Others should do the same when they profit from comics. It's also ok to be frustrated at laws enacted that pressure low level payments out of people who are least able to understand those laws and with the least resources to fight the IRS, rather than take a  hard look at closing some tax loopholes that allow say, Nike, to pay no income tax. But that's the point, isn't it? Easier to pressure the vulnerable. The path of least resistance. Like the man said, it's a big club....and you ain't in it. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by october

[shadroch]

On 1/5/2022 at 12:05 PM, AGGIEZ said:

Not all of us agree said rules are "the right thing". I think the federal gov should keep their hands out of our pockets as much as possible and spend the money they do take a hell of alot more efficiently. I'd rather handle the stuff you mention locally...not federally.

Which other laws do you think we should ignore? Speed limits? Stop signs? 

[AGGIEZ]

On 1/5/2022 at 1:13 PM, shadroch said:

Which other laws do you think we should ignore? Speed limits? Stop signs? 

I'm going to refrain from a more robust response to avoid taking this down a political rabbit hole...

[lizards2]

On 1/5/2022 at 11:16 AM, AGGIEZ said:

I'm going to refrain from a more robust response to avoid taking this down a political rabbit hole...

Welcome to the Shad-ow zone.

[reptilekingdie]

I will request MO then

[shadroch]

On 1/5/2022 at 12:04 PM, lizards2 said:

If 100% of the laws were enforced in this country, 90% of the citizenship would be in jail. You can't wiggle in modern life with out violating something.

You're just assuming that anyone that doesn't agree with your purposeful obtuseness is a tax cheat or criminal. Simply not the case.

My sadness about the current state of affairs (not just about any new tax situation, but that certainly has an impact) is the burden current conditions are having on the poor and lower-middle class

What law did you break today? Yesterday? Tomorrow?  What utter nonsense that you can't live without breaking a law that will land you in jail. 

[JJ-4]

Well, driving too fast, not crossing the street at the sidewalk, spitting in public, the list goes on.  There are so many federal, state, and local laws that it's A) impossible for anyone to understand them as they are written in legalize and B) remember them all.  I would guess that just about everyone breaks laws on a daily basis. 

[manetteska]

On 1/5/2022 at 6:16 PM, JJ-4 said:

Well, driving too fast, not crossing the street at the sidewalk, spitting in public, the list goes on.  There are so many federal, state, and local laws that it's A) impossible for anyone to understand them as they are written in legalize and B) remember them all.  I would guess that just about everyone breaks laws on a daily basis. 

You forgot the “land you in jail” part. 

[shadroch]

On 1/5/2022 at 5:16 PM, JJ-4 said:

Well, driving too fast, not crossing the street at the sidewalk, spitting in public, the list goes on.  There are so many federal, state, and local laws that it's A) impossible for anyone to understand them as they are written in legalize and B) remember them all.  I would guess that just about everyone breaks laws on a daily basis. 

How many times did you spit in public today?   What laws did you break today that could end you in jail?

[KPR Comics]

On 1/5/2022 at 7:16 PM, JJ-4 said:

Well, driving too fast, not crossing the street at the sidewalk, spitting in public, the list goes on.  There are so many federal, state, and local laws that it's A) impossible for anyone to understand them as they are written in legalize and B) remember them all.  I would guess that just about everyone breaks laws on a daily basis. 

None of which are punishable by jail except in connection with aggravating circumstances

[NewWorldOrder]

I don't understand the outrage or constant whining in this thread. 

Since I was born if little Jimmy made a $1.00 cutting grandma's lawn the USA Gov't wants their cut.

Also since e-commerce took off in the year 2000 most Americans got to keep a lot of income and never pay taxes on it (also no sales tax).  Everything has now shifted so much more to e-commerce it was only a matter of time before this happened.

So yes if you sell your ASM #300 CGC 9.6 for 2k online that you found in your closet from when you were a kid then oh well you will have to report it. Subtract the expenses against the sale on your tax return and call it a day. 

If you clean out your closet and sell items for less then what you paid then you dont have to pay any income taxes as long as you didnt make a profit.  Your only inconvenience is having yourself or your accountant take 10 seconds to fill out a number on a sheet of paper. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by NewWorldOrder

[batman_fan]

On 1/5/2022 at 4:22 PM, shadroch said:

What law did you break today? Yesterday? Tomorrow?  What utter nonsense that you can't live without breaking a law that will land you in jail. 

exceeded the speed limit this morning, ran a light and I am sure I failed to come to a complete stop at several intersections so pretty much a typical day