Collector or Investor? 1 1

[PDGray]

So, do you consider yourself a collector or an investor?

 

It seems that many of the topics I have read on this board have to do with people investing or hoping for a return on their investment in comic books.

 

Now, while I understand that to a point, it seems to me that we are losing something in the hobby.  I have been a collector for close to 50 years now.  I have sold a few books here and there, but generally buy what I like and hold on to it.  I was even against grading books because once it was encased, then I would never get to read it again.  The last couple of years have begun to change my mind about that perspective.  I have begun the slow process of getting some of my more valuable books graded or buying books that are already graded.  I want to read them, but I also want to protect them so that when I leave this earth my wife and kids can look at a book and quickly get a market value on it if they need the cash.  I certainly hope they would hold on to them, but I won't have a lot of say in the matter at that point.

In my mind, if a book appreciates in value then great!! If it holds its own value, then great!!  If it loses some value, thats ok too, because I know I will have gotten my enjoyment out of the book which is ultimately what it's all about.  

What do you think you are?  Collector or Investor?

 

PDG

 

 

[D84]

Collector. I deslab the books I buy and have no intentions to sell anything again.

At times, I've sold when I needed the money, but am much more careful with the finances now.

[SuperBird]

Obviously one could be both.

I would say that if the amount of money you have into comics is financially meaningless to you, then you're a collector. Otherwise, an investor. 

[sfcityduck]

I’d say you are an investor if you make buying and selling decisions based on economic projections.  If you are buying books you like because you like them, but tell your wife and friends you are doing so in part “because they are great investments”, but find it hard to part with the books because you enjoy them too much, then you are a collector.

[sfcityduck]

The nature of popular collectibles is they appreciate in price (until they don’t).  That alone does not make you an “investor” or the collectible a “good investment.”  I think it comes down to mentality.  Are you trying to amass cool comics or stacks of green paper.

[Robot Man]

On 1/12/2022 at 6:29 AM, PDGray said:

So, do you consider yourself a collector or an investor?

 

It seems that many of the topics I have read on this board have to do with people investing or hoping for a return on their investment in comic books.

 

Now, while I understand that to a point, it seems to me that we are losing something in the hobby.  I have been a collector for close to 50 years now.  I have sold a few books here and there, but generally buy what I like and hold on to it.  I was even against grading books because once it was encased, then I would never get to read it again.  The last couple of years have begun to change my mind about that perspective.  I have begun the slow process of getting some of my more valuable books graded or buying books that are already graded.  I want to read them, but I also want to protect them so that when I leave this earth my wife and kids can look at a book and quickly get a market value on it if they need the cash.  I certainly hope they would hold on to them, but I won't have a lot of say in the matter at that point.

In my mind, if a book appreciates in value then great!! If it holds its own value, then great!!  If it loses some value, thats ok too, because I know I will have gotten my enjoyment out of the book which is ultimately what it's all about.  

What do you think you are?  Collector or Investor?

 

PDG

 

 

Congrats on 50 years in the hobby. I am also a member of that club.

I was a kid in the dawn of the SA. My first Marvel was Spidy #3 off the shelf in the drug store.

I bought all the new books and started seeking out back issues. My first GA score at about 13 really changed my focus. As much as I enjoyed my SA books, I was hooked on the hunt for GA.

I have always considered myself as a collector primarily. As the cost of what I wanted rose, I decided to sell or trade off stuff I could live without to get what I wanted more. Used to be pretty easy to score lots of old comics so I had a lot of books I could part with.

I still have the same philosophy. My collection has always been self funded. Other than parting with some very sweet books for life changing money (buying my first house, my kids education, ect), any money I have made goes right back into my collection.

So, I consider myself a collector first and formost. A collector who’s collection has surprisingly, turned into a very good investment! 

[KCOComics]

I've never considered myself an investor. I always bought books I loved and enjoyed owning. I've always said if they went down to $0 tomorrow I would still love owning what I own.  I also break out comics separately from my financial planning. Retirement, kids college, financial security... All of that stuff comes before comics and comics aren't factored into any of it. 

With that said, there comes a point where the value is impossible to ignore. Not only with what you own, but also how much it costs to add popular GA and SA books.  So while I don't consider comics an investment, I do recognize their value and find myself increasingly concerned about beneficiaries, tax implications of selling and so on. 

So, I would call myself a collector who is realistic about the investment aspect of the hobby. 

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by KCOComics

[shadroch]

I was a collector but now am strictly an investor. 95% of what I buy is to exploit market inefficiencies.  

I started collecting seriously in 1973 and even when I owned or managed shops I was a collector, with an eye for future profit.  My collecting goals have changed over time and these days I hardly ever buy something for my ever shrinking permanent collection and almost always for resale. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by shadroch

[50YrsCollctngCmcs]

How I know I'm a collector:

• I've always bought the comics I love at prices I could afford irrespective of trends.
• I swear I'll be buried with my comics!
• I've moved worthless piles of beat up pulp that goes on EBay for a buck or two for decades just because I remember how much it meant to me when I first got it.
• I really despised slabbing when it started as you couldn't read the comic inside!
• I brave the most disreputable neighborhoods in search of that elusive bookstore or antique store that just might have some old comics!
• The thrill of the hunt never goes away!

[LearnedHand]

I think it’s become more complicated than that.

When I started buying GA back in the late 1970s, most show-goers were “collectors” and even the overwhelming majority of dealers were into the material - often flipping through books with you to point out a splash page, panel, or story.   Even telling you to sniff the books (esp the MHs and others that smelled like fresh ink).  Back then, the motto was “buy what you like.”  And, based on prices then, it was easy to do that.  

In my opinion, there was a holistic paradigm shift when the internet came, and the slab turned ephemera into commodities.    

Think about the shift in fundamentals:  

• You can no longer actually smell, touch, or open a comic book to connect with the material.

 

• Pre-internet/slab, collectors who needed to sell would often get raped, as dealers and stores generally offered a fraction of book value.  Made sense, as they needed to buy at a price that left resale profit.  The internet/slab enticed collectors to sell by immediately allowing a collector to sell on their own terms and yield dealer sale prices.

 

• Prices have increased exponentially.  Meaning, some books I bought on allowance money as a kid, I could not afford to buy today even if I had my entire pre-tax salary available solely for the comic book.  On a more general basis, when buying a blue chip run book in grade becomes a minimum $5k/book purchase, and buying anything more important in grade becomes a minimum $10-15k purchase, for salaried adults, this necessarily means a lot of other things need to come into play, like mortgage, car payments, child expenses and saving for their university, quality of life stuff like travel, grown-up toys, etc., retirement, etc.  As such, it’s often become a financial decision. 

 

• Higher prices have resulted in higher stakes.  Back in the day, most could afford a few errors in judgment, overpaying for big books by say 10-20%, as this would often have added say $5 - $25 to a book’s total price.  Today, that same overpayment would mean paying an additional 4, 5, or 6 figures ... per book.  Yes, salaries have gone up, but not as dramatically.  As such, I think a huge part of the purchasing consideration for most collectors of this pricier material is whether the character and book have a relatively certain bright future on many levels.

 

• Based on the above, the “buy what you like” motto is just not realistic any longer - unless you collect lower grade or non-mainstream GA. 
   
• Finally, I used to crack books out of slabs as a matter of course.  Hey, I’m a collector - I love the books and not planning to sell most of it any time soon.  I don’t crack anymore; it’s more granular when you’re talking about say $5k and more valuable books.  Like the gent above, it’s a good idea to slab before selling.  If you buy an already slabbed book, the slab cost is included. If you crack it out but eventually plan to sell, the slab is now a new upcoming cost. And, it could be many thousands of dollars per book, and this fee increases as books become more valuable - killing your return.  Sure auction houses will front you this cost, but that’s a loan that gets netted. And, if you plan to insure your collection, it’s a much easier process all around if you’re insuring slabs.  While this may seem off-topic, the point is that none of these now-necessary considerations have anything to do with being a fan of material, as they force even the hardcore (non-rich) collector to strongly consider the investment and dollars aspects. 

Oh, I’m a collector  
 

Edited January 12, 2022 by LearnedHand

[Math Teacher]

I am a collector, first and foremost. I buy books that I want, not because they are a good investment. As an example, I have no interest in AC #242 (first Brainiac) or AC #252 (first Supergirl). I have never been a big fan of Superman, so I would not spend money on those books, even if I got a good deal.

However, I would be a liar if I said I have no interest in the value of my collection. The main reason why is that I need to value my collection to determine how much insurance I need to cover a potential loss. It would be wrong to say I don't factor the value of my collection into the amount of my estate, just like it would be wrong to ignore the value of our house toward my estate.

I have mentioned before that I slab many of my most valuable comics (>= $500). My reason for this is threefold: 1) I like how they look in a slab, 2) I feel that a slab provides more protection than a mylar bag and backing board, and 3) I want to make it as easy as possible for my family to sell my collection when I pass on. Unfortunately, no one in my family has shown even a remote interest in comics.

I think that anyone that says that anyone who says that they have absolutely no interest in the value of their collection is probably not being 100% honest with themselves. I bought the books that I have in my collection because I wanted them, but it would be incorrect to say that I am not aware of the value of my collection.

[KCOComics]

On 1/12/2022 at 1:12 PM, LearnedHand said:

I think it’s become more complicated than that.

When I started buying GA back in the late 1970s, most show-goers were “collectors” and even the overwhelming majority of dealers were into the material - often flipping through books with you to point out a splash page, panel, or story.   Even telling you to sniff the books (esp the MHs and others that smelled like fresh ink).  Back then, the motto was “buy what you like.”  And, based on prices then, it was easy to do that.  

In my opinion, there was a holistic paradigm shift when the internet came, and the slab turned ephemera into commodities.    

Think about the shift in fundamentals:  

• You can no longer actually smell, touch, or open a comic book to connect with the material.

 

• Pre-internet/slab, collectors who needed to sell would often get raped, as dealers and stores generally offered a fraction of book value.  Made sense, as they needed to buy at a price that left resale profit.  The internet/slab enticed collectors to sell by immediately allowing a collector to sell on their own terms and yield dealer sale prices.

 

• Prices have increased exponentially.  Meaning, some books I bought on allowance money as a kid, I could not afford to buy today even if I had twice my pre-tax salary available solely for the comic book.  On a more general basis, when buying a blue chip run book in grade becomes a minimum $5k/book purchase, and buying anything more important in grade becomes a minimum $10-15k purchase, for salaried adults, this necessarily means a lot of other things need to come into play, like mortgage, car payments, child expenses and saving for their university, quality of life stuff like travel, grown-up toys, etc., retirement, etc.  As such, it’s often become a financial decision. 

 

• Higher prices have resulted in higher stakes.  Back in the day, most could afford a few errors in judgment, overpaying for big books by say 10-20%, as this would often have added say $5 - $25 to a book’s total price.  Today, that same overpayment would mean paying an additional 4, 5, or 6 figures ... per book.  Yes, salaries have gone up, but not as dramatically.  As such, I think a huge part of the purchasing consideration for most collectors of this pricier material is whether the character and book have a relatively certain bright future on many levels.

 

• Based on the above, the “buy what you like” motto is just not realistic any longer - unless you collect lower grade or non-mainstream GA. 
   
• Finally, I used to crack books out of slabs as a matter of course.  Hey, I’m a collector - I love the books and not planning to sell most of it any time soon.  I don’t crack anymore; it’s more granular when you’re talking about say $5k and more valuable books.  Like the gent above, it’s a good idea to slab before selling.  If you buy an already slabbed book, the slab cost is included. If you crack it out but eventually plan to sell, the slab is now a new upcoming cost. And, it could be many thousands of dollars per book, and this fee increases as books become more valuable - killing your return.  Sure auction houses will front you this cost, but that’s a loan that gets netted. And, if you plan to insure your collection, it’s a much easier process all around if you’re insuring slabs.  While this may seem off-topic, the point is that none of these now-necessary considerations have anything to do with being a fan of material, as they force even the non-rich hard core the collector to strongly consider the investment and dollars aspects. 

Oh, I’m a collector  
 

I agree with all of this. 

I always said (to the one person who actually puts up with me talking about comics), that three fundamental drivers of the existing comic market were: 

1) The internet / eBay

2) Slabbing

3) the movies! 

And I'm sure there are other drivers, but the modern comic market is a very different place than when I started collecting. Now, I was just a kid in the pre-ebay days.  

So the comic market for me was looking at the wall books in my local comic shop and when I was old enough to drive I started going to local shows, occasionally going to bigger shows. But when eBay started, the game changed. It created access to books I had never seen before or only dreamed of owning. 

 

 

[MattTheDuck]

I started buying comics about the same time as the OP.  In those days, "These will be worth $1 million some day" was kind of a kid dream, something you don't really expect to happen.  When I bought IH 181 and ASM 129 at the grocery store and put them in bags and boards and boxes, I did it to keep them nice because I cared about them, not because I thought, "Oh, the Wolverine and the Punisher are going to be wildly popular characters in a few years and I'll make lots of money."  The fact that comics I bought because they were the ones I collected became valuable is a happy accident in my mind.  If I had been an investor in comics in those days, I would be a multi-multi-millionaire today because I would have been much more aggressive in seeking out high grade books that I bought only lower grade copies of because it just never occurred to me that condition was important.  My books were beautiful regardless of condition.

The hobby changed substantially since the last pre-2021 time I bought a comic (1992).  The 10-point grading scale, slabbing, pressing and cleaning, etc are all brand-new to me.  I have reluctantly bought some slabs, but am now focused on higher grade raw books, filling in holes in my 70s collection.  It makes no difference to me that ASM 48 isn't a key book - I have a hole in my ASM run there so I'm buying one.  It makes no difference to me that ASM 103 isn't a key book - my copy had staple rust and migration so I'm buying one.

I will also say this: prior to a couple of months ago, I had never sold a comic book.  I sold about 20 that I bought from a yard sale in a fit of overzealousness in a title I don't collect.  I intend to sell more this year of the same kind.  I have no intention of selling my main Silver/Bronze books, except perhaps undercopies.  I hope some day my books will be valuable if my heirs or their heirs want to sell them, which I suspect most of us hope.

[Chief1332]

Can I just be an enthusiast? 

Some comics I buy because I love them, others I buy because it's a good deal and is a book someone else will love.

[bpc3qh]

I'm primarily a collector, in that that's my main passion. I don't buy books intending to sell for profit, but if I see a deal on something, I'll consider it. There are plenty of books in my collection that I won't sell, unless I can immediately have another copy available, so even some of the "investing" is still collecting because plenty of collectors sell books in order to pay for other books.

[SuperBird]

Howabout:

I collect cheap books. 

I invest in a collection of pricey ones? 

[juniorMC]

I started in 84 or 85'.  about 2011 I started grading my books after a friend and co-worker suggested I get my books graded.  I said, what's that? He turned me onto a whole new world.  I guess I've always been a collector, but I knew from the beginning that I wanted them to go up in value.  That's why I bagged and boarded them all after reading.  For me there's something about having a thing that's valuable.  I try to find multiple copies then keep the best and sell the rest.  I want hot rare books.  I guess I was an equal collector/investor who turned into a mostly investor/collector. sometimes I try to sell some things I've purchased, had signed and graded, to slim down my collection, but I just can't bring myself to sell them.  

[juniorMC]

On 1/12/2022 at 2:19 PM, KCOComics said:

I agree with all of this. 

I always said (to the one person who actually puts up with me talking about comics), that three fundamental drivers of the existing comic market were: 

1) The internet / eBay

2) Slabbing

3) the movies! 

And I'm sure there are other drivers, but the modern comic market is a very different place than when I started collecting. Now, I was just a kid in the pre-ebay days.  

So the comic market for me was looking at the wall books in my local comic shop and when I was old enough to drive I started going to local shows, occasionally going to bigger shows. But when eBay started, the game changed. It created access to books I had never seen before or only dreamed of owning. 

 

 

You forgot TELEVISION 

[juniorMC]

On 1/12/2022 at 1:14 PM, Math Teacher said:

I am a collector, first and foremost. I buy books that I want, not because they are a good investment. As an example, I have no interest in AC #242 (first Brainiac) or AC #252 (first Supergirl). I have never been a big fan of Superman, so I would not spend money on those books, even if I got a good deal.

However, I would be a liar if I said I have no interest in the value of my collection. The main reason why is that I need to value my collection to determine how much insurance I need to cover a potential loss. It would be wrong to say I don't factor the value of my collection into the amount of my estate, just like it would be wrong to ignore the value of our house toward my estate.

I have mentioned before that I slab many of my most valuable comics (>= $500). My reason for this is threefold: 1) I like how they look in a slab, 2) I feel that a slab provides more protection than a mylar bag and backing board, and 3) I want to make it as easy as possible for my family to sell my collection when I pass on. Unfortunately, no one in my family has shown even a remote interest in comics.

I think that anyone that says that anyone who says that they have absolutely no interest in the value of their collection is probably not being 100% honest with themselves. I bought the books that I have in my collection because I wanted them, but it would be incorrect to say that I am not aware of the value of my collection.

My sister asked me about my books and what would happen to them if something happened to me. My parents getting their hands on them is out of the question.  They would sell them for $100 and think it was great.  I showed my sister what several of them are selling for on ebay and now she knows that my collection is not to be taken lightly.  I told her to put them up for auction and never buy now unless u know the value.  Never sell anything to a comic shop because they need to make money and will have no choice but to lowball you, not that they are trying to rip u off, but they have to turn a profit.  I told her seek out the collectors, that's where you'll get the most for them.

This is something we should all think about and plan for.

[fifties]

I've still got the 3D books I bought off the news stand in 1953, along with a ton of pre-'56 books, so maybe I've been a collector off and on for 69 years?  ALL slabs I buy get cracked, and I could care less about values.  They're like my house; it's paid off, and doesn't matter if it's value were to drop to zero, it's still needed for shelter.  The books are needed for reading enjoyment. 

Unless I'm upgrading, I don't exchange comic books for pieces of green paper with pictures of dead presidents on them...