Label Modifications

[underthebigw]

Concerning the statistics about restored books and doubting the extent of restored books being sold as unrestored in the pre-CGC days ("The Wild, Wild West"), the first thing that jumps out at me is that nearly 1 in 10 GA books are restored, and 1 in 20 silver age books are restored. Consider your personal collection in these terms...sounds like a lot of books, huh?

 

Redefine the dataset based on value, and the percentages will go way up with every incremental increase in $$. A few examples:

 

Spidey 1: 248/973 restored (25%)

AF 15: 259/732 restored (35% - that means more than 1 in every 3 copies is restored!! )

FF 1: 164/489 restored (33%)

Hulk 1: 94/352 restored (27%)

 

Don't believe the numbers? Look no further than our very own Burntboy who would have been scammed out of OVER $20,000 by hammer were it not for CGC.

 

Any questions?

 

Your numbers might be right, but the logic isn't. These numbers pertain only to a select sample: generally HG (at least by appearance) books that have made their way to CGC. Don't forget the vast amounts of mid and low grade books that aren't worth tampering with, as well as books that collectors have no intention of selling, therefore no need to restore or slab. In general, I think it's safe to say a fairly low percentage of books have been "restored" with the ratio going up as the financial stakes and grade increase.

[action1kid]

I would think that 10%[restored] figure would go up quite a bit for key golden age books

[drbanner]

Concerning the statistics about restored books and doubting the extent of restored books being sold as unrestored in the pre-CGC days ("The Wild, Wild West"), the first thing that jumps out at me is that nearly 1 in 10 GA books are restored, and 1 in 20 silver age books are restored. Consider your personal collection in these terms...sounds like a lot of books, huh?

 

Redefine the dataset based on value, and the percentages will go way up with every incremental increase in $$. A few examples:

 

Spidey 1: 248/973 restored (25%)

AF 15: 259/732 restored (35% - that means more than 1 in every 3 copies is restored!! )

FF 1: 164/489 restored (33%)

Hulk 1: 94/352 restored (27%)

 

Don't believe the numbers? Look no further than our very own Burntboy who would have been scammed out of OVER $20,000 by hammer were it not for CGC.

 

Any questions?

 

Your numbers might be right, but the logic isn't. These numbers pertain only to a select sample: generally HG (at least by appearance) books that have made their way to CGC. Don't forget the vast amounts of mid and low grade books that aren't worth tampering with, as well as books that collectors have no intention of selling, therefore no need to restore or slab. In general, I think it's safe to say a fairly low percentage of books have been "restored" with the ratio going up as the financial stakes and grade increase.

 

Actually, interestingly enough, nearly half of the "0.5 Poor" condition AF 15's are restored!!

 

Not sure what "logic" you are disagreeing with from my post, but the point is that when it counts (expensive books), restoration should be a big concern to any potential buyer. The fact that one in 20 books CGC has graded from the 1960's have been discovered to be restored is rather alarming...

[tth2]

I like BLOD, or Blue Label of Deceit.

 

Or how about BLOAT, Blue Label of Apparent Trash?

 

Has my BLOU (Blue Label Of Uncertainty) gone by the wayside already?

I still like it!

[THE_BEYONDER]

Also, a lot of collectors know that they're holding restored books, and feel no need to have them slabbed.

 

Substitute the term "collectors" with "dealers" ; replace "feel" with "have felt"....and add "until now" on the end.

 

Still, Sterling is right. The 2.2% figure does fly in the face of posters who suggested the shift to the blue label was a money grab for PLOD resubs.

 

Exactly. I mean...if you knew CGC was going to revamp the entire system after 5 years anyway, why wouldn't you just wait?

[nearmint]

collectors that don't mind restored books will now have more information at their disposal upon which to make an educated purchase.

 

I keep hearing this, but for those "collectors who buy restored books anyway" like Berk, I don't see much if any new and useful information.

 

Do you really think Jon Berk needs CGC to tell him that a "dot of color touch" is low-rated resto, or that "spine reinforced, pieces added, staples replaced, cleaned and tears sealed" is going to rate pretty significantly on the resto/conservo scale?

 

Is Jon Berk *really* saying he needs this CGC Scale to rate his own purchases, and that he has no idea as to the severity of the work, without the "P Level 0" notation? If so, how was he buying restored books pre-CGC? Blind-folded?

 

No, Jon Berk doesn't need any of the things you mentioned. He completely understands that many books are very scarce to rare, and that when they come to market restored, even slight(p) resto, prices realized are getting hit much harder by the purple label than they should.

 

If I understand him correctly, he believes the 10-point scale will help educate those who immediately pass by very nice books when they spot the purple label.

[Ze-man]

I am speechless.

 

( Not at your post NM.. but rather all this mess)

 

Ze-

[underthebigw]

Concerning the statistics about restored books and doubting the extent of restored books being sold as unrestored in the pre-CGC days ("The Wild, Wild West"), the first thing that jumps out at me is that nearly 1 in 10 GA books are restored, and 1 in 20 silver age books are restored. Consider your personal collection in these terms...sounds like a lot of books, huh?

 

Redefine the dataset based on value, and the percentages will go way up with every incremental increase in $$. A few examples:

 

Spidey 1: 248/973 restored (25%)

AF 15: 259/732 restored (35% - that means more than 1 in every 3 copies is restored!! )

FF 1: 164/489 restored (33%)

Hulk 1: 94/352 restored (27%)

 

Don't believe the numbers? Look no further than our very own Burntboy who would have been scammed out of OVER $20,000 by hammer were it not for CGC.

 

Any questions?

 

Your numbers might be right, but the logic isn't. These numbers pertain only to a select sample: generally HG (at least by appearance) books that have made their way to CGC. Don't forget the vast amounts of mid and low grade books that aren't worth tampering with, as well as books that collectors have no intention of selling, therefore no need to restore or slab. In general, I think it's safe to say a fairly low percentage of books have been "restored" with the ratio going up as the financial stakes and grade increase.

 

Actually, interestingly enough, nearly half of the "0.5 Poor" condition AF 15's are restored!!

 

Not sure what "logic" you are disagreeing with from my post, but the point is that when it counts (expensive books), restoration should be a big concern to any potential buyer. The fact that one in 20 books CGC has graded from the 1960's have been discovered to be restored is rather alarming...

 

I'm just quibbling with the idea that the figures you are using are representative of comics of any particular period. Instead, it's a very skewed population. I obviously agree that as the financial incentive to "improve' a book grows, the more wary buyers need to be. However, people seem to be extrapolating from your figures to the extent of restoration among GA or SA or BA books as a whole, and I think that's wrong. These are not only books that have an inherent incentive which leads to restoration, but I would also suggest that the fact that they are slabbed, probably because the owners had the intent to sell them, skews the sample even more. Like you, I find the numbers alarming, but they can't be used to make assumptions regarding the extent of restoration among comics in general.

[lou_fine]

Well i quess its official.Blue labels for everyone.Restored books skyrocket in price.

Than i feel out of bed and woke up.Betcha it has just the opposite effect and restored books become even more scrutinized.

 

A1K;

 

What makes you think that the new system will result in restored books skyrocketing in prices? This conclusion of yours does not make any sense to me since the new label clearly denotes restoration (or conservation which is just the same thing) along with a numerical restoration rating right on the label.

 

You make it sound like the colour of the label was the only thing keeping prices down on restored books. If this is true, then it's probably good that we have a universal colour label so that collectors will learn to base market value on the book itself (i.e. type and extent of restoration), as opposed to the colour of a label.

[action1kid]

I was being sarcastic.I meant just the opposite.The blue label for all will increase the price discrepency between restored and unrestored even further.[the opposite of its intent.]

[nearmint]

That's equally nonsensical.

[action1kid]

We will see.

You do not know the results of what is going to happen with this new system either.

Dont take for granted that this new system is going to fix the problem.You dont know that yet and neither do I.

[trevorlsmith]

I'm only on page 20 of 30, so forgive me if this may have been mentioned.

 

The notation on the right of the qualified and apparent labels is in the same place as the current pedigree designation.

 

This could be confusing, particularly on eBay with small scans.

 

Just a thought. I don't now how big a deal it is, but I wanted to throw it out there.

[nearmint]

We will see.

You do not know the results of what is going to happen with this new system either.

Dont take for granted that this new system is going to fix the problem.You dont know that yet and neither do I.

 

I do not pretend to know what will happen, nor do I take anything for granted. You, on the other hand, have predicted that the disparity will widen between restored and unrestored.

 

Apparently, you DO pretend to know.

[uclapeterg]

I like BLOD, or Blue Label of Deceit.

 

Or how about BLOAT, Blue Label of Apparent Trash?

 

Has my BLOU (Blue Label Of Uncertainty) gone by the wayside already?

 

What do you mean, "your" Blue Label of Uncertainty? I coined that phrase almost two years ago!!!!

 

Link to my original post!

 

How am I suppose to remeber what you posted two years ago?

 

You know, growing old affects your memory, huh?

[FFB]

I like BLOD, or Blue Label of Deceit.

 

Or how about BLOAT, Blue Label of Apparent Trash?

 

Has my BLOU (Blue Label Of Uncertainty) gone by the wayside already?

 

What do you mean, "your" Blue Label of Uncertainty? I coined that phrase almost two years ago!!!!

 

Link to my original post!

 

How am I suppose to remeber what you posted two years ago?

 

Yeah. I'm trying to forget what he posted two hours ago...

 

 

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

I like BLOD, or Blue Label of Deceit.

 

Or how about BLOAT, Blue Label of Apparent Trash?

 

Has my BLOU (Blue Label Of Uncertainty) gone by the wayside already?

 

What do you mean, "your" Blue Label of Uncertainty? I coined that phrase almost two years ago!!!!

 

Link to my original post!

 

How am I suppose to remeber what you posted two years ago?

 

Yeah. I'm trying to forget what he posted two hours ago...

 

 

 

 

 

But it's usually so good that I simply can't!

 

That better?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jeezus, the things you gotta do.....

[Timulty]

I agree with whoever said(was it Red?) that now it's APLOD.

 

They should call it LOAD (Label of Apparent Death) that way when someone says their comic is conserved, you can say "That's a LOAD and you know it!"

[Red Hook]

Not bad!

[joe_collector]

He completely understands that many books are very scarce to rare, and that when they come to market restored, even slight(p) resto, prices realized are getting hit much harder by the purple label than they should.

 

So he wants to see CGC change the label so that Restored books sell for higher amounts?

 

Thanks for clearing up his motives.