Should you always swing for the fences with 9.8 or sometimes settle for less? 1 1

[KCode98]

So I'm making this thread because of a few reasons. 1, I'm new to collecting comics in the new era of graded comics and 2, I've read where people on here have actually said with the money you save going with a lower grade than 9.8 you can get for example sometimes 2 of the same book in 9.4 vs 1 in 9.8. Plus I also read on here that often times lower grade books increase MORE in value.

 

So I have a problem of wanting 9.8 or nothing in books and I would like to learn why I shouldn't be this close minded. Maybe you guys can help me. And I mainly collect 1970s-1990s book as that is what I enjoy the most. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by KCode98

[Tnexus]

Assuming you are looking to eventually flip, I would say any book that sells for $250 or less in 9.8, go with the 9.8. $250+ is 9.6s and lower begin to close the gap.

[bc]

On 3/9/2022 at 1:22 PM, KCode98 said:

So I'm making this thread because of a few reasons. 1, I'm new to collecting comics in the new era of graded comics and 2, I've read where people on here have actually said with the money you save going with a lower grade than 9.8 you can get for example sometimes 2 of the same book in 9.4 vs 1 in 9.8. Plus I also read on here that often times lower grade books increase MORE in value.

 

So I have a problem of wanting 9.8 or nothing in books and I would like to learn why I shouldn't be this close minded. Maybe you guys can help me. And I mainly collect 1970s-1990s book as that is what I enjoy the most. 

A lot of this depends on the amount of disposable income you have allotted for your comic collecting addiction. As @Tnexus mentioned above, if a 9.8 is going for $250 (or less), if you like the book, grab it. As far as only collecting "9.8", remember that grading is subjective. Seen plenty of 9.6's with excellent centering/colors/gloss & page quality that looked better to me than a slightly fugly 9.8.

The bottom line is always "Collect what you enjoy!"

And there is some truth about buying multiples of highly liquid books in lower grades (think IH181). Instead of spending 5 figures on a 9.x copy (and tying up that cash), you could have been buying 3 figure 3.5's as you find them to flip as prices rise. This keeps the cash flow working for you. Again, it's about what you consider expensive vs. the disposable income.

If you check out the other current thread (linked below), you can see what other collectors factor into their buying decisions.

When I collected books in your range ('70-90's), it was NM or go home for the personal collection. Now I collect late '50's and very early '60's Atlas/Marvel titles - lucky to even find a book in 8.0 let alone anything 9.x. So I "altered" my criteria to a more acceptable (and available/affordable) range. 

Good luck !

-bc

 

 

[KCode98]

Well honestly lately what I’ve really been doing is skipping the CGC and finding really nice raw books and scooping them up. The ONLY thing that really worries me is my opinion on what it will grade isn’t what it would grade. So what I’ve done is sometimes look at known graded books and compare to what I’m looking at. And usually I shoot low. So if I think it looks like a 9.2 I figure by the price if I’m getting a good deal or not as to what a 8.5 is valued at.

 

Not sure if that makes sense or not. 

[valiantman]

On 3/9/2022 at 12:22 PM, KCode98 said:

So I'm making this thread because of a few reasons. 1, I'm new to collecting comics in the new era of graded comics and 2, I've read where people on here have actually said with the money you save going with a lower grade than 9.8 you can get for example sometimes 2 of the same book in 9.4 vs 1 in 9.8. Plus I also read on here that often times lower grade books increase MORE in value.

 

So I have a problem of wanting 9.8 or nothing in books and I would like to learn why I shouldn't be this close minded. Maybe you guys can help me. And I mainly collect 1970s-1990s book as that is what I enjoy the most. 

https://comics.gpanalysis.com/news/2021/investing-in-cgc-grade-comics-is-higher-grade-better

(clipping from the article)

An investment of $679 in 2005 could have purchased one copy of CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300, while an investment of $675 could have purchased 13 copies of CGC 8.5 Amazing Spider-Man #300. The average prices paid in 2021 would have the CGC 9.8 investment (one copy) valued at $6,116 and the CGC 8.5 investment (13 copies) valued at $9,321. If it had been possible to purchase 25 copies of CGC 7.0 Amazing Spider-Man #300 for an average of $27 each, the returns would have been even higher.

An additional consideration is that owning a single copy of CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300 could only be “cashed out” by selling the book and no longer having the book in the collection, while owning 13 copies of CGC 8.5 Amazing Spider-Man #300 could be “cashed out” by selling one, two, or even twelve copies of the book, while retaining a copy within the collection.

Edited March 9, 2022 by valiantman

[THE_BEYONDER]

As valiantman explained  above, it’s better to have multiples over a single copy.   

Let’s take Omegamen 3 - 1st LOBO

I was going to pick up a 9.8, which runs about $400.  But instead, I’ve decided to use that money to buy 3 9.6s instead.    I enjoy owning multiples, and there’s a chance one or more of the 9.6s will be nicer than the single 9.8 I could have bought.   If the book pops, I can sell one and reduce my cost significantly on the remaining pair.   And if it continues to go up after my first sale.....no worries....I can cash another in.    At this point, my keeper should at the very least be “free”.

 

rinse and repeat 

 

 

And if the book crashes completely, I’ll have 3 TV trays rather than 1 

Edited March 9, 2022 by THE_BEYONDER

[KCode98]

On 3/9/2022 at 4:36 PM, valiantman said:

https://comics.gpanalysis.com/news/2021/investing-in-cgc-grade-comics-is-higher-grade-better

(clipping from the article)

An investment of $679 in 2005 could have purchased one copy of CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300, while an investment of $675 could have purchased 13 copies of CGC 8.5 Amazing Spider-Man #300. The average prices paid in 2021 would have the CGC 9.8 investment (one copy) valued at $6,116 and the CGC 8.5 investment (13 copies) valued at $9,321. If it had been possible to purchase 25 copies of CGC 7.0 Amazing Spider-Man #300 for an average of $27 each, the returns would have been even higher.

An additional consideration is that owning a single copy of CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300 could only be “cashed out” by selling the book and no longer having the book in the collection, while owning 13 copies of CGC 8.5 Amazing Spider-Man #300 could be “cashed out” by selling one, two, or even twelve copies of the book, while retaining a copy within the collection.

Talk about a light bulb going off!

[troydivision1]

If I submit the book myself I hope for a 9.8 but am happy with whatever grade it is.
If I am buying the book (copper or modern) for myself I'll aim for a 9.6 as I don't believe the 2.5x-5x price increase is warranted.
If the book is anything other than copper or modern I aim for best presenting in the $ amount I want to spend.
Could be .5 or 1.8 or 5.0...whatever works in the amount I am comfortable with.
The reason is - as dollar values for 9.8s increase so will the amounts for lower grades.

[rexinnih]

The above pretty well sums it up for me also. When I submit raws, I'm happy of course with a 9.8 but since many of them were purchased new off the rack, if it's investment I'm after, profit is there. Now when I buy slabbed books I do think long and hard on the price. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/9/2022 at 1:22 PM, KCode98 said:

So I have a problem of wanting 9.8 or nothing in books and I would like to learn why I shouldn't be this close minded. Maybe you guys can help me.

Would you rather have a high quantity of high-quality books, or a low quantity of high-quality books? In reality you're not going to be able to tell the difference between a 9.8 and a 9.6/9.4 unless you spend a lot of time looking at the covers searching for flaws.

[Arkham]

If it is only a small step between the 9.6 and the 9.8, I’ll often buy the 9.8. But not when it hundreds of dollars different. Given I often can’t spot the flaws between the 9.6 and the 9.8 in a slab, I’d literally only be spending the money for what CGC had written on the label. For example, when I wanted to pick up a 1st Batman Who Laughs the 9.6 was $190 and the 9.8 was $780. I 100% went for the 9.6 without a second thought. I used the money saved to pick up a sweet bronze book for my personal collection. 

[lostboys]

Theres not much difference between a 9.8 and a 9.6...true, BUT an in demand 9.8 will always sell in todays market if priced right. Ive sold some fugly looking 9.8s by setting the prices lower than all the other copies available.

Me? I wont buy a 9.8 if I see a single flaw in the pics but there are MANY buyers out there that just want that 9.8 on top corner of the slab.

[jjonahjameson11]

On 3/9/2022 at 4:36 PM, valiantman said:

https://comics.gpanalysis.com/news/2021/investing-in-cgc-grade-comics-is-higher-grade-better

(clipping from the article)

An investment of $679 in 2005 could have purchased one copy of CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300, while an investment of $675 could have purchased 13 copies of CGC 8.5 Amazing Spider-Man #300. The average prices paid in 2021 would have the CGC 9.8 investment (one copy) valued at $6,116 and the CGC 8.5 investment (13 copies) valued at $9,321. If it had been possible to purchase 25 copies of CGC 7.0 Amazing Spider-Man #300 for an average of $27 each, the returns would have been even higher.

An additional consideration is that owning a single copy of CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300 could only be “cashed out” by selling the book and no longer having the book in the collection, while owning 13 copies of CGC 8.5 Amazing Spider-Man #300 could be “cashed out” by selling one, two, or even twelve copies of the book, while retaining a copy within the collection.

Based on 2021 average prices, you could purchase ‘only’ 8.5 copies in  cgc 8.5 for one copy in cgc 9.8. 

[valiantman]

On 3/10/2022 at 8:12 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

On 3/9/2022 at 3:36 PM, valiantman said:

https://comics.gpanalysis.com/news/2021/investing-in-cgc-grade-comics-is-higher-grade-better

(clipping from the article)

An investment of $679 in 2005 could have purchased one copy of CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300, while an investment of $675 could have purchased 13 copies of CGC 8.5 Amazing Spider-Man #300. The average prices paid in 2021 would have the CGC 9.8 investment (one copy) valued at $6,116 and the CGC 8.5 investment (13 copies) valued at $9,321. If it had been possible to purchase 25 copies of CGC 7.0 Amazing Spider-Man #300 for an average of $27 each, the returns would have been even higher.

An additional consideration is that owning a single copy of CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300 could only be “cashed out” by selling the book and no longer having the book in the collection, while owning 13 copies of CGC 8.5 Amazing Spider-Man #300 could be “cashed out” by selling one, two, or even twelve copies of the book, while retaining a copy within the collection.

Based on 2021 average prices, you could purchase ‘only’ 8.5 copies in  cgc 8.5 for one copy in cgc 9.8. 

You mean if someone used 2021 as the starting point?  I was testing whether the "9.8 or nothing" recommendations since the beginning of CGC were correct.  Buying in 2005, selling in 2021.

The correct answer (2005 to 2021) would have been buying 13 copies of ASM #300 in CGC 8.5.  As in all investments, past performance is not a guarantee of future returns... but from what I can tell, no one was even checking past performance.  People continually repeat "9.8 or nothing" despite being wrong (on the most submitted book of all time) for the past 20 years. 

[jjonahjameson11]

On 3/10/2022 at 9:18 AM, valiantman said:

You mean if someone used 2021 as the starting point?  I was testing whether the "9.8 or nothing" recommendations since the beginning of CGC were correct.  Buying in 2005, selling in 2021.

The correct answer (2005 to 2021) would have been buying 13 copies of ASM #300 in CGC 8.5.  As in all investments, past performance is not a guarantee of future returns... but from what I can tell, no one was even checking past performance.  People continually repeat "9.8 or nothing" despite being wrong (on the most submitted book of all time) for the past 20 years. 

Yes, if someone were to use 2021 as a starting point, they could pick up 8.5 copies in CGC 8.5 for one copy in CGC 9.8.  

[shadroch]

On 3/9/2022 at 2:36 PM, valiantman said:

https://comics.gpanalysis.com/news/2021/investing-in-cgc-grade-comics-is-higher-grade-better

(clipping from the article)

An investment of $679 in 2005 could have purchased one copy of CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300, while an investment of $675 could have purchased 13 copies of CGC 8.5 Amazing Spider-Man #300. The average prices paid in 2021 would have the CGC 9.8 investment (one copy) valued at $6,116 and the CGC 8.5 investment (13 copies) valued at $9,321. If it had been possible to purchase 25 copies of CGC 7.0 Amazing Spider-Man #300 for an average of $27 each, the returns would have been even higher.

An additional consideration is that owning a single copy of CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300 could only be “cashed out” by selling the book and no longer having the book in the collection, while owning 13 copies of CGC 8.5 Amazing Spider-Man #300 could be “cashed out” by selling one, two, or even twelve copies of the book, while retaining a copy within the collection.

You can sell the 9.8 anytime and use a portion of the money to buty a couple of 8.5s, so that arguement isn't all that strong.

I recently decided I had too much tied up in an Avengers 1 in 6.0 so I sold it and used some of the proceeds to buy a 3.0 and a PLOD 5.0. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by shadroch

[valiantman]

On 3/10/2022 at 9:25 AM, shadroch said:

You can sell the 9.8 anytime and use a portion of the money to buty a couple of 8.5s, so that arguement isn't all that strong.

I recently decided I had too much tied up in an Avengers 1 in 6.0 so I sold it and used some of the proceeds to buy a 3.0 and a PLOD 5.0. 

Unless you overlapped the purchases/selling, there is a window of time when you would not own the book.  For some collectors, the risks involved in "missing the boat" are too high to sell their only copy and try to get into lower grades without overpaying.  Waiting for a better price, after you've sold your only copy, is not something some people sleep well doing.

[shadroch]

On 3/10/2022 at 10:08 AM, valiantman said:

Unless you overlapped the purchases/selling, there is a window of time when you would not own the book.  For some collectors, the risks involved in "missing the boat" are too high to sell their only copy and try to get into lower grades without overpaying.  Waiting for a better price, after you've sold your only copy, is not something some people sleep well doing.

It's what dealers go thru on a daily basis. What would be the point of selling something  from inventory if you can't replace it cheaper.

[Stefan_W]

My two cents added is that there is more to the equation, at least for me, than just the costs. Space can be at a huge premium especially if you are talking about graded comics. So it may make sense from an investment standpoint to get more books that are lower graded but if you are talking about potentially dozens or even hundreds of slabs you need to have lots of room to store them and a very forgiving spouse. From this perspective it may make more sense to invest in one expensive 9.8 book over several lower graded ones. 

I guess a second two cents (three cents?) is depending on the book you are talking about it may be difficult to resell lower graded books down the line when you want to cash in on your investment. When you send books to auction keys that are in high grade typically push the fair market value at the time while lower graded and less valuable books, especially non-keys, can sometimes get poached at a fraction of value. So if you are planning on making the books an investment for your family to cash in if something happens to you (which I do) it makes a lot of sense to distill a bit and trade a lot of lower value or lower graded books for a single higher end one. 

I hope this helps, and best of luck with whatever direction you choose to go in  

Edited March 10, 2022 by Stefan_W

[valiantman]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:36 AM, shadroch said:

On 3/10/2022 at 11:08 AM, valiantman said:

Unless you overlapped the purchases/selling, there is a window of time when you would not own the book.  For some collectors, the risks involved in "missing the boat" are too high to sell their only copy and try to get into lower grades without overpaying.  Waiting for a better price, after you've sold your only copy, is not something some people sleep well doing.

It's what dealers go thru on a daily basis. What would be the point of selling something  from inventory if you can't replace it cheaper.

Collectors usually don't think of their books as "inventory".