Question about The Punisher's logo change...why? 4 4

[William-James88]

I thought this was just temporary for the current storyline.

[awakeintheashes]

On 3/11/2022 at 10:26 AM, William-James88 said:

I thought this was just temporary for the current storyline.

I think it is. But having grievances is not. So, here we are. 

[troydivision1]

On 3/11/2022 at 10:26 AM, William-James88 said:

I thought this was just temporary for the current storyline.

Good question.
Presumably the skull will be back, but why no Punisher since November of 2020?

From the linked Bleeding Cool article in my first post...please go and read the article for a few more points that cannot be included due to being politics adjacent / direct...
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/the-punisher-gets-a-new-devil-skull-logo-for-2022/

"Amidst calls for Marvel and Disney to cancel The Punisher as a character, Bleeding Cool observed that this may have happened already and that there had been no published or solicited Punisher comic books since November 2020.
There was a collection of Punisher Vs Barracuda – but that series was never completed. It was initially postponed by the pandemic but then abandoned altogether, despite completed issues having been completed."

Edited March 11, 2022 by Troy Division

[musicmeta]

Go back to the old logo.  The new logo is terrible. 

[Ares]

I see it as a story line change and once it is done it will go back to normal. 

What this has done is get people talking about him again

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/11/2022 at 10:26 AM, William-James88 said:

I thought this was just temporary for the current storyline.

But... Why...?

[JollyComics]

On 3/11/2022 at 10:10 AM, musicmeta said:

Go back to the old logo.  The new logo is terrible. 

I agreed.   It reminds me of Batman that almost joined the league of assassins. If Batman did that, I wonder what is his logo looks like today?

[CAHokie]

On 3/11/2022 at 8:46 AM, Ares said:

I see it as a story line change and once it is done it will go back to normal. 

What this has done is get people talking about him again

That’s a great point. Normally I would have researched something like this but it seems like every day there are reactionary changes with things so it didn’t even surprise me or ring untrue.

[revat]

On 3/11/2022 at 9:40 AM, CAHokie said:

On 3/11/2022 at 8:46 AM, Ares said:

I see it as a story line change and once it is done it will go back to normal. 

What this has done is get people talking about him again

That’s a great point. Normally I would have researched something like this but it seems like every day there are reactionary changes with things so it didn’t even surprise me or ring untrue.

Yah I think a lot of people (in the general "I'm mad about this internets") want to read into a lot of decisions by a lot of companies, like they're trying to promote this or that too much, and that might be true to some extent.  But to a much much larger extent, they try to drum up new business and conversation and free publicity, which in this day and age is often getting one side mad at the other side and everyone arguing and then the company just getting a news cycle.  Because they think that increases clicks/views, and hopefully sales.  And some of it works and they keep it, sometimes it doesn't they go back to what it was, and sometimes its a bit of both, or its just a trial to gather data to try something bigger in the future.  But the goal is rarely less red or blue, but much more likely the goal is green.

Which doesn't mean every decision is good (or bad) just because it leans one way or the other or seems to have a certain goal. I think corporate is still (and will always be) judging much more on $$$$.

[Gonzimodo]

The Punisher wouldn't even work for Heaven, who I assume would have been pointing him toward the worst of the worst to kill.  (Yes, I brought up that terrible direction Marvel briefly took with him. Sorry, everyone.)  I really don't understand why in the world he would agree to work with one of the most infamous criminal organizations in the world (many of whose members he's killed in the past), and since Jason Aaron is writing it, I don't care to waste the money to find out, either.  The new logo is laughably dumb, and this direction sounds dumb.  Nice one, Marvel! 

[William-James88]

On 3/11/2022 at 11:48 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

But... Why...?

Maybe to go with the logo of the clan he is joining? For the current storyline. Just a guess, if I am wrong and someone has insight regarding the upcoming fiction, they can let me know.

[sfcityduck]

Marvel clearly has changed the logo due to politics.  Anyone who doesn't get that is deluding themselves. 

Marvel has always been political.  Captain America 1 had Captain America hitting a white racist anti-semite in the face.

Stan Lee's Soap Box published in Marvel Comics in 1968 after the assassination of MLK and RFK stated:

Marvel readers, you can be sure, noticed Stan Lee’s opposition to racists.  One reader named Tim wrote Stan in 1969 to complain about Marvel’s support for civil rights, ending his letter by stating “I’m not a racist, just a concerned Marvelite who doesn’t want his favorite comic company to be ruined by something that doesn’t concern you as comic publishers.”

 Stan’s published response in the letters page of Marvel Comics?:  

Quote

“But, such matters as racism and inequality do concern us, Tim — not just as comic mag artists and writers and publishers, but as human beings. Certainly it’s never been our intention to portray all, or even most, white Americans as hard-core bigots or screaming racists. Maybe it’s just that we think that many people in the land of the free have too long turned their backs or averted their eyes to the more unpleasant things that are going on every day. Maybe we felt we could do something — even within the relatively humble format of what used to be called a ‘comic-book’ – to change things just a bit for the better. If we failed, let’s just say that we’d at least like to have it said of us that — we tried.”

Stan Lee didn’t stop trying.  Marvel has not stopped trying.  And the logo change is clearly part of that.  You can argue either side of the politics if you want, but you cannot  argue that Marvel would not want their character associated with a logo that has bad associations.  Marvel's position was made crystal clear from a video that Stan posted shortly before he died:

Quote

"Marvel has always been and always will be a reflection of the world right outside our window. That world may change and evolve, but the one thing that will never change is the way we tell our stories of heroism. Those stories have room for everyone, regardless of their race, gender or color of their skin. The only things we don’t have room for are hatred, intolerance and bigotry.”

Edited March 11, 2022 by sfcityduck

[sfcityduck]

On 3/10/2022 at 7:21 PM, darkstar said:

Perhaps instead of being dismissive you could point out the faults with what I wrote and we could actually have a discussion. Would love to hear your argument about how the original trilogy characters are at recognizable in the most recent movies and the tv shows. The re-introduction of Luke in Last Jedi is a nonsensical, failed instance of bathos that would make anyone familiar with the character ask themselves wtf they were watching. It was so poorly done and negatively viewed that they had to write a scene in the next movie where the character apologized for doing it. Fett's appearances in the Mandalorian and his scene teasing the Book of Boba Fett were inline with his character from the original trilogy but then you have the actual Book of Boba Fett wherein his actions are totally unrecognizable. Disney literally teased at him becoming a crime lord and then gave us a show wherein he adheres to diplomacy and befriends a local band of teenagers. 

 

 

The films are canon.  The many poorly authored books and comics largely are not.  I'm ok with that.  I saw Star Wars probably 10 times in a theater the Summer it came out.   Been a fan since then. I think only one thing in the next 8 movies is irreconciable with the characters - Leia's hugging Rey instead of Chewie.  All we learned about Boba Fett in the second and third movies is that he was a bounty hunter.  Guess what?  That's not inconsistent with any of his acts in Mandalorian or the Book of Boba Fett.  I'd say that unfortunately your view of the characters has been tainted by a series of poorly coordinated and written post movie books and comics which treated the characters in ways which spiraled into ever more stupid ways.  I'm glad they wiped that clean (although I do like some of the Zahn and X-Wing books quite a lot - but I can still read them because, after all, its all just fantasy).

[awakeintheashes]

On 3/11/2022 at 1:23 PM, Gonzimodo said:

The Punisher wouldn't even work for Heaven, who I assume would have been pointing him toward the worst of the worst to kill.  (Yes, I brought up that terrible direction Marvel briefly took with him. Sorry, everyone.)  I really don't understand why in the world he would agree to work with one of the most infamous criminal organizations in the world (many of whose members he's killed in the past), and since Jason Aaron is writing it, I don't care to waste the money to find out, either.  The new logo is laughably dumb, and this direction sounds dumb.  Nice one, Marvel! 

There is a reason. 
 

Spoiler

Somehow the Hand can bring back the dead…

 

[darkstar]

On 3/11/2022 at 6:21 AM, Lord Gemini said:

Certain fans that seem to like to speak on behalf of all fans.

Again, you originally posted that you were upset with Star Wars fans who approached the various Disney productions with presumptions about existing characters, somehow unaware of why fans who had been following an IP for decades would criticize the portrayal of the characters in the new productions when they didn't fit the character the audience knew. And if you don't address those differences in the narrative either through something like expository dialogue or the character's actions on screen, you have yourself an indicator of a bad movie. You don't get to sell me the idea of Boba Fett being the known quantity badass and then get a pass when that doesn't materialize.    

[troydivision1]

On 3/11/2022 at 2:19 PM, sfcityduck said:

Marvel clearly has changed the logo due to politics.  Anyone who doesn't get that is deluding themselves. 

Marvel has always been political.  Captain America 1 had Captain America hitting a white racist anti-semite in the face.

Stan Lee's Soap Box published in Marvel Comics in 1968 after the assassination of MLK and RFK stated:

Marvel readers, you can be sure, noticed Stan Lee’s opposition to racists.  One reader named Tim wrote Stan in 1969 to complain about Marvel’s support for civil rights, ending his letter by stating “I’m not a racist, just a concerned Marvelite who doesn’t want his favorite comic company to be ruined by something that doesn’t concern you as comic publishers.”

 Stan’s published response in the letters page of Marvel Comics?:  

Stan Lee didn’t stop trying.  Marvel has not stopped trying.  And the logo change is clearly part of that.  You can argue either side of the politics if you want, but you cannot  argue that Marvel would not want their character associated with a logo that has bad associations.  Marvel's position was made crystal clear from a video that Stan posted shortly before he died:

Thank you so much for posting this.
I have never seen it.

Now, could you imagine Disney owned Marvel publishing / announcing the same thing?

I ask because they haven't even released a statement about Ryan Coogler being detained whilst trying to take money out of his own account 4 days ago.
The director of Black Panther.
A billion dollar movie for them.
They (Disney) are afraid of appearing 'political' to the same people Stan was speaking out against.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Troy Division

[sfcityduck]

On 3/11/2022 at 11:46 AM, darkstar said:

Again, you originally posted that you were upset with Star Wars fans who approached the various Disney productions with presumptions about existing characters, somehow unaware of why fans who had been following an IP for decades would criticize the portrayal of the characters in the new productions when they didn't fit the character the audience knew. And if you don't address those differences in the narrative either through something like expository dialogue or the character's actions on screen, you have yourself an indicator of a bad movie. You don't get to sell me the idea of Boba Fett being the known quantity badass and then get a pass when that doesn't materialize.    

Star Wars fans have been criticizing the non-canon (aka non-movie) IP since Splinter of the Mind's Eye came out (the first big misstep with the characters, and that was after the first movie!).  So give me a break.  If you were invested in some of those books, you really didn't like the characters of the movies that much.

[darkstar]

On 3/11/2022 at 1:36 PM, sfcityduck said:

The films are canon.  The many poorly authored books and comics largely are not.  I'm ok with that.  I saw Star Wars probably 10 times in a theater the Summer it came out.   Been a fan since then. I think only one thing in the next 8 movies is irreconciable with the characters - Leia's hugging Rey instead of Chewie.  All we learned about Boba Fett in the second and third movies is that he was a bounty hunter.  Guess what?  That's not inconsistent with any of his acts in Mandalorian or the Book of Boba Fett.  I'd say that unfortunately your view of the characters has been tainted by a series of poorly coordinated and written post movie books and comics which treated the characters in ways which spiraled into ever more stupid ways.  I'm glad they wiped that clean (although I do like some of the Zahn and X-Wing books quite a lot - but I can still read them because, after all, its all just fantasy).

Except you don't need to look at any of the expanded universe stuff to know exactly who Boba Fett is as the limited screen time he saw in the original trilogy was more than enough. The audience knows that he is a bounty hunter specifically tasked by Vader to hunt down the heroes of the Battle of Yavin. So right there you know he obviously has some sort of reputation as being good at his job. Plus Vader specifically warns him no disintegrations, which means he is ruthless. And he completed his mission. This all matches up with the version of Fett that was shown in the Mandalorian. It does not match up with the Fett that was shown in the Book of Boba Fett. Also outside of encountering Fett in the random videogame over the years I have zero exposure to the character in the expanded universe, I have not read any of the novels or comics, so no my view is not tainted by having read about the character elsewhere. 

[darkstar]

On 3/11/2022 at 1:56 PM, sfcityduck said:

Star Wars fans have been criticizing the non-canon (aka non-movie) IP since Splinter of the Mind's Eye came out (the first big misstep with the characters, and that was after the first movie!).  So give me a break.  If you were invested in some of those books, you really didn't like the characters of the movies that much.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

[sfcityduck]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:02 PM, darkstar said:

Except you don't need to look at any of the expanded universe stuff to know exactly who Boba Fett is as the limited screen time he saw in the original trilogy was more than enough. The audience knows that he is a bounty hunter specifically tasked by Vader to hunt down the heroes of the Battle of Yavin. So right there you know he obviously has some sort of reputation as being good at his job. Plus Vader specifically warns him no disintegrations, which means he is ruthless. And he completed his mission. This all matches up with the version of Fett that was shown in the Mandalorian. It does not match up with the Fett that was shown in the Book of Boba Fett. Also outside of encountering Fett in the random videogame over the years I have zero exposure to the character in the expanded universe, I have not read any of the novels or comics, so no my view is not tainted by having read about the character elsewhere. 

Your view is unconvincing to me.  The scenes you cite establish only (1) Boba Fett is a bounty hunter, (2) he has a reputation for being good at his job, and (3) Vader wanted a capture, not a killing, and wanted proof the job was accomplished (which a disintegration would preclude).  All of that matches up with the Book of Boba Fett.  

I have read almost all of the books.  And if you haven't read those, I don't know why you are complaining about character inconsistencies.  Boba Fett was a rough sketch in Empire and Return.  If that's all you got, he could go in any direction you want.