Slab defects and imperfections - what do you expect as a buyer, or think is fair as a seller? 3 3

[Lightning55]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:59 PM, Gaard said:

Well, that's really asking a lot for my far from steel trap memory, but I could swear I read, just recently (the other MCS thread?), where someone sent 49 books and was surprised at the grades they received.

So you mean raw books submitted to mcs to be purchased by them, or auctioned, or consigned?  Surprised how?  Disappointed in the grades received, or thrilled?

Edited March 11, 2022 by Lightning55

[Gaard]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:05 AM, Lightning55 said:

So you mean raw books submitted to mcs to be purchased by them, or auctioned, or consigned?  Surprised how?  Disappointed in the grades received, or thrilled?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he sent the books for them to sell and was disappointed in the grades they gave them.

Like I said, I don't have a lot of personal experience with them. I apologize if I offended anyone.

[MusterMark]

On 3/10/2022 at 9:17 PM, Gaard said:

On 3/10/2022 at 9:05 PM, Lightning55 said:

So you mean raw books submitted to mcs to be purchased by them, or auctioned, or consigned?  Surprised how?  Disappointed in the grades received, or thrilled?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he sent the books for them to sell and was disappointed in the grades they gave them.

Like I said, I don't have a lot of personal experience with them. I apologize if I offended anyone.

If that was the case, that is called "undergrading", not "overgrading" as you had written.  The exact opposite.

[Gaard]

Shoot. Now I feel like such a turd. Sorry for that.

[Kevin76]

If you're overly descriptive about the case, then you're making the damage to the case worse than it might actually be.  If the case isn't cracked or has eye sore scratches, I wouldn't mention anything about the case's condition. Some buyers just always plan on returning a slab if it isn't to their liking and expect perfection every time, even guys who want a return cause they didn't agree with how CGC graded the book, I block those mofo's, They aren't customers, they are liabilities.  Perhaps MCS should keep track of a customer's return habits and see if they are being abused? Just like Amazon, too many returns = Ban.  Just an idea. 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Kevin76

[Lightning55]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:35 AM, Gaard said:

Shoot. Now I feel like such a turd. Sorry for that.

Don't beat yourself up about it, that's a common error.  Especially when it can sound so similar to overly strict, being too critical of a comic, which would be the opposite of over-grading, as @MusterMarkmentions. 

Under and over grading are probably not the best terms.  More succinct terms would be strict grading or loose grading.  Strict would be following all guidelines to the letter, no slack.  Loose grading is through rose colored glasses, forgiving things as if they didn't exist and assigning a higher grade than deserved.

To my knowledge, mcs is strict on both ends.  They are strict when grading your comics coming to them to purchase, but also strict when selling them.  To buy a comic as VG and sell that same comic as VF would be lucrative, but hardly honest.

[MusterMark]

On 3/10/2022 at 10:41 PM, Lightning55 said:

On 3/10/2022 at 9:35 PM, Gaard said:

Shoot. Now I feel like such a turd. Sorry for that.

Don't beat yourself up about it, that's a common error.  Especially when it can sound so similar to overly strict, being too critical of a comic, which would be the opposite of over-grading, as @MusterMarkmentions. 

Under and over grading are probably not the best terms.  More succinct terms would be strict grading or loose grading.  Strict would be following all guidelines to the letter, no slack.  Loose grading is through rose colored glasses, forgiving things as if they didn't exist and assigning a higher grade than deserved.

To my knowledge, mcs is strict on both ends.  They are strict when grading your comics coming to them to purchase, but also strict when selling them.  To buy a comic as VG and sell that same comic as VF would be lucrative, but hardly honest.

Agreed.  Don't beat yourself up about it.  These things happen.  We have all done them.  

[Courageous Cat]

off topic slightly, but i've had nothing but good experiences from MCS and to my possible detriment, i feel they under grade to a fault and i could post a few examples but i wont

[Ryan.]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:36 AM, Kevin76 said:

If you're overly descriptive about the case, then you're making the damage to the case worse than it might actually be.  If the case isn't cracked or has eye sore scratches, I wouldn't mention anything about the case's condition. Some buyers just always plan on returning a slab if it isn't to their liking and expect perfection every time, even guys who want a return cause they didn't agree with how CGC graded the book, I block those mofo's, They aren't customers, they are liabilities.  Perhaps MCS should keep track of a customer's return habits and see if they are being abused? Just like Amazon, too many returns = Ban.  Just an idea. 

 

Much like on ebay, MCS probably has to deal with a large population of buyers who thrill bid/buy, have immediate buyer's remorse, and use the condition of the case as an excuse to return it. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

Tough to say. I 'accept' the fact that Newton Rings and scuffing is common for CGC slabs. I don't like it, but that's simply where we are right now. Any noticeable defect beyond that, I would expect to be notified of.

[William-James88]

On 3/10/2022 at 6:23 PM, mycomicshop said:

I think of slab damage, defects and imperfections in three groups:

- significant damage that compromises the integrity of the case or is serious enough to require the book be reholdered before it can be sold

- flaws that do not necessarily require recasing, but are serious enough that the defect should be included in the item description

- flaws and imperfections that are minor enough they should be viewed as par for the course, and do not need to be called out in item descriptions

We deal with some very picky buyers, who want to treat the most minor scuffing and scratches as a big deal. Same with newton rings back a while ago. And on the other hand, we have consignors who feel we're doing them a disservice if we're overly descriptive about reporting minor case flaws.

Do you have thoughts about where you think that line should be drawn? What kind of stuff should be reported to the buyer, and what kind of stuff is to be expected and doesn't need to be noted?

I would describe those flaws I bolded, sure, but for the rest, just have a statement that says:
"CGC Slabs may have slight imperfections not warranting a reholder (like newton rings). There will be no returns on slabbed comics as they are graded by a third party."

I will say though that I have felt some pain as a consignor in a similar case. It wasn't with slabbed comics but with sealed multipacks from the 70s. The comics are fresh and in excellent condition, you write as such. However, you the grade the multipack itself, which makes no sense to me as the comics are the collectibles not the plastic packaging. And in my case, the grade you gave to the 50 year old plastic bag is so low and prominant in the listing that the one I sold on auction went for peanuts. I have 2 other packs still there, I don't feel comfortable putting them up for auction with that grading strategy. 

https://www.mycomicshop.com/search?ItemID=53377333
 

Also, the way they get listed doesn't have the name of the comic in the title, making it harder to sell.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:25 AM, Ryan. said:

where slabs with barely perceptible defects are listed as "scuffing to front and back of case". I just assume this will be listed on every slab I send in and now just ignore the notation altogether, as buyer

+1

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:23 PM, mycomicshop said:

I think of slab damage, defects and imperfections in three groups:

- significant damage that compromises the integrity of the case or is serious enough to require the book be reholdered before it can be sold

- flaws that do not necessarily require recasing, but are serious enough that the defect should be included in the item description

- flaws and imperfections that are minor enough they should be viewed as par for the course, and do not need to be called out in item descriptions

We deal with some very picky buyers, who want to treat the most minor scuffing and scratches as a big deal. Same with newton rings back a while ago. And on the other hand, we have consignors who feel we're doing them a disservice if we're overly descriptive about reporting minor case flaws.

Do you have thoughts about where you think that line should be drawn? What kind of stuff should be reported to the buyer, and what kind of stuff is to be expected and doesn't need to be noted?

Conan.

I've bought plenty of stuff from you guys over the years. My personal opinion is drawing attention to case scuffs and scratches is making a rod for your own back.

Most cases, no matter how much you look after them will retain minor blemishes and scuffs. It doesn't need to ne noted. Most times I've bought slabs from you, this has been noted, and I've been hard pressed to actually notice them in hand.

I buy slabs to protect my books. If the slab is not pristine, it doesn't bother me, as long as the book is safe and protected. Newton rings is just some collateral damage in preservation also.

This is my personal opinion, some may not agree.

When I sell a book I don't mention the case unless it is cracked or has some bit of plastic missing.

Like I said, if the book is protected and secure, and the case is not actually damaged, that's what's important.

Just my 

[Black_Adam]

I have had MCS submit many comics on my behalf to CGC for grading. Once graded, these comics shipped directly back from CGC to MCS for consignment and were handled by no one other than employees of these two companies. Many were then listed by MCS with notations indicating "damaged" cases. In almost every instance, this damage was scuffing to the interior of the case. I believe this scuffing is intentional and done by CGC to alleviate the headache the company was having with newton rings (scuffing eliminates the newton rings and is far less annoying, imo). I think scuffing may also be the cause of many reports of debris inside the case. I agree with others in this thread who have stated damage should only be noted if the case is cracked or missing pieces and, if I ran MCS, I would notify the consignors of these slabs that they need to be sent by MCS back to CGC for re-casing (at the consignor's expense) if they are going to be listed for sale on the MCS website!

[Kevin76]

Yeah, MCS makes it sound worse than it really is.  Unless the case has full blow crack or deep scratch, "normal" scuffing shouldn't be noted. 

[Poekaymon]

I disclose any significant scuffing and significant newton rings.  Have had some that were truly awful but the pics didn't show it well.  I generally try to avoid returns even if it means losing bids/sales.  Minor scuffing I wouldn't bother.

[alexanderjk]

On 3/11/2022 at 8:53 PM, Poekaymon said:

I disclose any significant scuffing and significant newton rings.  Have had some that were truly awful but the pics didn't show it well.  I generally try to avoid returns even if it means losing bids/sales.  Minor scuffing I wouldn't bother.

I do same. A 9.8 Joe #1 I sold looked like the slab had been dipped in oil. Sold for $200 less than other books in its grade, but couldn’t, in good conscience, not mention the defect in the listing.

But kudos to MCS for taking pics of the slab blemishes and noting them in the listing. Picked up this ASM #252 for a good price, which may have been due to this scuff mark. May reholder eventually (it’s for my PC), but can live with it, especially at a $75 discount. 

How many of you would be bothered enough by the scuff mark to pass?

[MetalPSI]

I've submitted slabs to MCS that had cracks, require a reholder, and they even measured where the crack was and the size.

Can't ask for better

I've sent in slabs that look perfectly fine to me, abd they've labeled them as having light scuffing, and again  no problem with it. No problem having all my slabs sold