What Has Happened to this Hobby? 5 5

[Xatari]

Everyone from every perspective will claim passion for truth. I just think in this case, make a decision and move on. If you want to buy from Heritage, cool. If not, cool.

I am also part of this community, consider myself a savvy collector, and have a totally different opinion.  If I felt strongly about a seller or auction house in a negative way, I’d simply just stop supporting them and move on. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Xatari

[Phill the Governor]

On 4/16/2022 at 11:44 PM, Xatari said:

Everyone from every perspective will claim passion for truth. I just think in this case, make a decision and move on. If you want to buy from Heritage, cool. If not, cool.

I am also part of this community, consider myself a savvy collector, and have a totally different opinion.  If I felt strongly about a seller or auction house in a negative way, I’d simply just stop supporting them and move on. 

 

I'm not sure what decision it is I have to make and move on about? I never said I'd stop bidding at Heritage or elsewhere... deciding not to contribute to the discussion?  Remember, I was responding to your video of "another perspective"...

I noticed you edited your previous post with that video, adding:

"(specifically around 16 min in where Karl specifically states he has changed his perspective and was quite wrong)".

I addressed that in my response to you.. but maybe you didn't read it since you added that blurb in afterwards. Or maybe you’re trolling me? You do know that everything at the 16min mark that Jobst says is taken out of context, spliced up, and put in a different order to make it sound like something different... right? No conspiracy here, the entire unedited video that Mad Dog took clips from is right here:

 

 

Yeesh, talk about manipulation! Mad Dog edited the clips of Jobst saying what you're referring to purposefully manipulate the video and trick the viewer into believing Jobst said something he didn't. Which is unbelievably deceptive. The claim that Jobst specifically states he has changed his perspective and was quite wrong infers that he now believes his allegations against Heritage and Wata were wrong to make, which is not at all what he was saying. He was referring to being wrong about underestimating the extent of the video game collecting community, but "Mad Dog Collection Man" took his words out of context to suit his narrative.

This is like a crash course in deceptive fake news, 101.

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Phill the Governor
spelling

[Xatari]

Look amigo, I’m not going to get into a big argument here on a forum I love and enjoy. Happy to take it offline.  
 

The point it, Karl Jobst is a guy who is typically a sensationalist social media presence who reports on video game speed runs. I’d hardly consider him an industry expert whose hard hitting investigative skills uncovered a mass market manipulation. That’s what I mean by conspiracy theory. He presented no factual evidence to support his claim that price manipulation was being conducted. Unless you’d like to point out specific examples of this behavior being conducted and back it up with proof, it’s a witch hunt and defamation. You, yourself, continue to buy through Heritage. If you think there is malfeasance afoot, make change with your money. 

My update to my previous post was to show new collectors who may have read your post as fact, the exact moment in which Karl admits he was wrong about aspects of his video. If you’d like to post the full interview, feel free to do so here for full context. Aside from that, I’m not trolling, and I’m not going to engage further on a public thread. You’re welcome to message me directly, but let’s not waste everyone else’s time. 
 

(updated for spelling)

Edited April 17, 2022 by Xatari

[pemart1966]

On 4/15/2022 at 1:38 AM, tth2 said:

Nice dad!

If I had asked my dad for a $500 gift for my 16th birthday, let alone for a $500 comic book, the only thing I would’ve received is the back of his hand.

 Mine would have said "". 

[pemart1966]

On 4/8/2022 at 8:12 PM, Heidjer Staecker said:

I think you may have people that were speculating in other fields (comics & sports cards) moving in to this field, but I really think that its just more fans with more money for the most part.  For example, on FB, someone speculated that the Bolland cover that went for $130K + was a speculator ... no way.  Even though it was my favorite piece that sold yesterday, if someone if new to the hobby, that is not the piece I would expect them to gravitate too.  Cap, Black Spider, Moonknight sure ... not Judge Dredd.  I know I am lucky enough to be able to afford more now than when I started collecting in the 90's, and after a break (marriage, kids, life) the pandemic allowed me to get excited about it again.  I don't think I'm alone.  The more of us there are, the more competition for the pieces.

Anyone who's buying OCA/comics at current prices is a speculator.  They either won't admit it or can't see the forest for the trees. 

[jjonahjameson11]

On 4/17/2022 at 11:46 AM, pemart1966 said:

Anyone who's buying OCA/comics at current prices is a speculator.  They either won't admit it or can't see the forest for the trees. 

Rubbish!

The current prices are bringing black hole collection pieces onto the market that wouldn't otherwise be available for years to come.  If you've been seeking your personal holy grail of OA for 10, 20 or more years, you buy it when the piece becomes available.  Period.

No speculation involved.

[cloud cloddie]

On 4/17/2022 at 9:13 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Rubbish!

The current prices are bringing black hole collection pieces onto the market that wouldn't otherwise be available for years to come.  If you've been seeking your personal holy grail of OA for 10, 20 or more years, you buy it when the piece becomes available.  Period.

No speculation involved.

Second this. There are pieces I’ve been looking for for years, that I would have happily paid half price for years ago. Unfortunately they’ve only come to market since prices have become bonkers. If anything, I’m less of a speculator now because I can’t put thrill bids on $100 pieces anymore. 

[Rick2you2]

On 4/17/2022 at 11:40 AM, pemart1966 said:

 Mine would have said "". 

Mine basically did just that. I had attended a home auction in which I had the winning bid on a box of comics for all of $40. Little things like 2nd appearance of the Flash, early FF, Spider-man, etc. But when I needed some spare cash for college spending, Dad told me to sell the books (I only got $35 back).

[Phill the Governor]

On 4/17/2022 at 11:19 AM, Xatari said:

Look amigo, I’m not going to get into a big argument here on a forum I love and enjoy. Happy to take it offline. 

I'm sorry that you see a discussion with talking points as a big argument. 

On 4/17/2022 at 11:19 AM, Xatari said:

The point it, Karl Jobst is a guy who is typically a sensationalist social media presence who reports on video game speed runs. I’d hardly consider him an industry expert whose hard hitting investigative skills uncovered a mass market manipulation. That’s what I mean by conspiracy theory.

You don't have to be an industry expert to investigate a situation and pursue empirical evidence.

On 4/17/2022 at 11:19 AM, Xatari said:

Unless you’d like to point out specific examples of this behavior being conducted and back it up with proof, it’s a witch hunt and defamation.

In response to this very perspective, Jobst did release the second video- the one where he brought on a lawyer (Alina Mazeika) to see if his claims held water. From the 30 min to 45 min mark Mazeika goes through three examples to see if, according to the FTC, the actions can be deemed unlawful. So, to point at specific examples like you asked.. here you go:

 

According to the lawyer: Heritage, Wata and it's owners seem to have broke some FTC regulations. If they [Heritage and Wata] actually thought the information put forward by Jobst is defamatory, then where is the lawsuit? If Karl is lying then it should be incredibly easy to prove a financial loss from his video, right? Seems like an easy win... unless the statements he made were not defamatory.

On 4/17/2022 at 11:19 AM, Xatari said:

You, yourself, continue to buy through Heritage. If you think there is malfeasance afoot, make change with your money.

I've already made my stance on continuing to bid at Heritage, and other auction houses, quite clear.

On 4/17/2022 at 11:19 AM, Xatari said:

My update to my previous post was to show new collectors who may have read your post as fact, the exact moment in which Karl admits he was wrong about aspects of his video. If you’d like to post the full interview, feel free to do so here for full context.

I already did, did you watch any of it? The full interview completely disproves your argument because everything Karl said at that point of the video you posted was taken out of context and manipulated.  You don't seem to be understanding this critical point: This manipulation of what he said is objectively factual, it happened - it's not my opinion.

On 4/17/2022 at 11:19 AM, Xatari said:

Aside from that, I’m not trolling, and I’m not going to engage further on a public thread. You’re welcome to message me directly, but let’s not waste everyone else’s time.

No need for patronizing comments.

[pemart1966]

On 4/17/2022 at 12:13 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Rubbish!

The current prices are bringing black hole collection pieces onto the market that wouldn't otherwise be available for years to come.  If you've been seeking your personal holy grail of OA for 10, 20 or more years, you buy it when the piece becomes available.  Period.

No speculation involved.

If one is spending 5 or 6 figures on OCA they're investing whether they know it or not.  Even if you consider yourself a collector, you're speculating that there's still upside to the piece that you are buying.  You don't drop that kind of bread and not weigh the financial risk to some degree. 

If you've been seeking a grail for more than 20 years and it now pops up there's a good chance, given today's prices, that it's unaffordable.

Edited April 17, 2022 by pemart1966

[Xatari]

@Phil happy to continue the discussion offline. No need to further this conversation here. Thanks. 

[-m]

I was searching for a piece - not the grail - but near the top, and found it.

Absolutely affordable and very reasonably priced. I bought it immediately and have been super happy since.

Patience is definitely a virtue in this hobby. 

[Xatari]

On 4/17/2022 at 1:44 PM, -m said:

I was searching for a piece - not the grail - but near the top, and found it.

Absolutely affordable and very reasonably priced. I bought it immediately and have been super happy since.

Patience is definitely a virtue in this hobby. 

So true! Patience and persistence are two aspects that will serve a collector well in this hobby! Care to share what you got? No worries if you’d rather keep private. Congrats on landing!

[Xatari]

On 4/17/2022 at 12:37 PM, pemart1966 said:

If one is spending 5 or 6 figures on OCA they're investing whether they know it or not.  Even if you consider yourself a collector, you're speculating that there's still upside to the piece that you are buying.  You don't drop that kind of bread and not weigh the financial risk to some degree. 

If you've been seeking a grail for more than 20 years and it now pops up there's a good chance, given today's prices, that it's unaffordable.

 Very good point. It is always funny to me when segments of our collecting family start accusing others of being speculators or investors. We are all in the same boat to a certain extent. 
 

Dinesh mentioned on a video chat with Bill that it would be “irresponsible not to consider the financial aspect” given the type of money being spent. Totally agree with that. 

[exitmusicblue]

The Enrico mess isn't the only drama today.  Could make for film noir.  Something about Easter.

[-m]

I originally spotted it many years ago when Enrico was showcasing a lot of Comolo art. Unfortunately it had already sold.

Edited May 30, 2022 by -m
Update link

[Hekla]

I have appreciated this discussion, thanks.

[jjonahjameson11]

On 4/17/2022 at 3:37 PM, pemart1966 said:

If one is spending 5 or 6 figures on OCA they're investing whether they know it or not.  Even if you consider yourself a collector, you're speculating that there's still upside to the piece that you are buying.  You don't drop that kind of bread and not weigh the financial risk to some degree. 

If you've been seeking a grail for more than 20 years and it now pops up there's a good chance, given today's prices, that it's unaffordable.

What can I say?  When you're wrong, you're really wrong!

There are far too many incorrect assumptions in your retort that I can't be bothered to respond in full.

Edited April 18, 2022 by jjonahjameson11

[SuperBird]

On 4/17/2022 at 3:37 PM, pemart1966 said:

If one is spending 5 or 6 figures on OCA they're investing whether they know it or not.  Even if you consider yourself a collector, you're speculating that there's still upside to the piece that you are buying.  You don't drop that kind of bread and not weigh the financial risk to some degree. 

If you've been seeking a grail for more than 20 years and it now pops up there's a good chance, given today's prices, that it's unaffordable.

The above only applies if spending 5 or 6 figures in meaningful to you. If it's the equivalent of buying a cup of coffee, not so much. 

[pemart1966]

On 4/18/2022 at 9:16 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

What can I say?  When you're wrong, you're really wrong!

There are far too many incorrect assumptions in your retort that I can't be bothered to respond in full.

Clearly someone who fits into the "Can't see the forest for the trees" category.