WB's BARBIE THE MOVIE starring Margot Robbie (2023) 7 7

[drotto]

On 7/31/2023 at 1:32 PM, namisgr said:

Given that women and girls are showing as the predominant viewers of the film, it would be nice to have a variety of their viewpoints here.  The general consensus from reading sites that collect layperson reviews is that a message for empowerment and the freedom to choose direction in life is enjoyable for young women.

I have stated several times, I think this movie has tapped into a undeserved demographic.  Despite the MCU trying to up the number of women in superhero films, it was still adapting an inherently male genre for women in and effort to attract them.  What that fails to acknowledge is the underpinnings remain rooted in those males interests, and therefor have failed to appeal to many women.

 

Barbie however is firmly and unabashedly female from the ground up, it is not adapted, and that has helped it tremendously. So there has been a pent up demand in this demographic that was not interest in or served by the superhero film dominance over the last 15 years. So this film has met with spades that pent up demand. For that group, it hits every note that has been missing for them.  To the extent that any underlying potential messeging is either being ignored, not a problem, or they support it. Honestly, the fans of this film for the most part, do not care about the politics. Furthermore, it has been messaging that has been oart of Barbie for decades, not new to the film. The last film that seems to be driven in this fashion by women is probably Titanic.

Edited July 31, 2023 by drotto

[namisgr]

On 7/31/2023 at 1:48 PM, drotto said:

I have stated several times, I think this movie has tapped into a undeserved demographic. 

I'm sure you mean 'underserved', and there's no question that it has.  Women have long been under-represented in filmmaking in storytelling, writing, directing, and producing, and there have long been fewer opportunities for older female than older male actors.

The same can be said for the extraordinary success of Black Panther.  It was so out of the ordinary to see a huge cast for a film with minority representation in nearly all aspects of production, including writing, directing, the cast, terrific costumes and a vibrant musical score.  The story goes that Wesley Snipes wanted to make a Black Panther movie and introduce a new way to view Africa as far back as the early 1990s, so the struggle to get the picture made and made in the way it was took a long time.

Edited July 31, 2023 by namisgr

[sfcityduck]

On 7/31/2023 at 10:48 AM, drotto said:

Despite the MCU trying to up the number of women in superhero films, it was still adapting an inherently male genre for women in and effort to attract them.  What that fails to acknowledge is the underpinnings remain rooted in those males interests, and therefor have failed to appeal to many women.

 

"Inherently male genre"?  No. A lot of women would be surprised by your comment. Mary Marvel, Wonder Woman, Black Cat, Ms. Fury, etc. all did well with readers back in the day. I do think that comic collecting as organized back in the early 1960s was overwhelmingly a male pursuit, but lots of women were readers of Marvel SA comics which, let's face it, had a heavy soap opera and romance element.

[sfcityduck]

On 7/31/2023 at 10:48 AM, drotto said:

Barbie however is firmly and unabashedly female from the ground up, it is not adapted, and that has helped it tremendously. 

Barbie the doll is a little girl's toy.

Barbie the movie is not. It is aimed at an older audience with a PG-13 rating. A well made movie is going to satisfy a mixed audience. Don't doubt that women steeped in Barbie influence will have nostalgia that might drive them to the movie, but if there's a reason why men would not appreciate a well-made movie (other than some sort of political issue - and that's not about gender) it escapes me. Lots of women love LOTR and superhero movies.

[drotto]

On 7/31/2023 at 2:02 PM, sfcityduck said:

"Inherently male genre"?  No. A lot of women would be surprised by your comment. Mary Marvel, Wonder Woman, Black Cat, Ms. Fury, etc. all did well with readers back in the day. I do think that comic collecting as organized back in the early 1960s was overwhelmingly a male pursuit, but lots of women were readers of Marvel SA comics which, let's face it, had a heavy soap opera and romance element.

Not saying women can not enjoy these genres, my wife loves superheros, but the are definitely tendencies when you look at general populations.  With Barbie the viewers are 75% female, with the MCU is runs 60% male.  Even Wonder Woman, the most popular female hero only managed 52% women. That is a group tendency that says nothing about an individual.  For the most part comic books is something like 85% male. Those number do not lie.  In the 50's and 60's comic companies had large romance lines to appeal to the other groups.

 

Yes, comics have a soap opera element, but secondary to the main plots which were typical good vs evils, and heros journy stories, focused on action. It is the same reason most romance novels are read by women.  There are story types and eliments that play better with general groups. There is nothing wrong with that, and there is nothing wrong acknowledging that. Again, just a tendency.  

 

You can always find exceptions to the rule, and thats great, everyone is invited. I am talking about wide trends.

[Bosco685]

On 7/31/2023 at 1:05 PM, Buzzetta said:

There have also been quite a few Westerns that are cinematic masterpieces with either a message to send, "Unforgiven", or are basically a "how to" guide for film itself like the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" in terms of pacing, camera, score, scenery, location et all. 

I never got into the John Wayne westerns.  As a kid and still as an adult I find the majority of them hokey.   I think it was @Bosco685 that around a decade ago was surprised I had never seen and suggested for me to see, "The Wild Bunch" and that was excellent and that has ranked up there as a favorite within the genre.

As far as Barbie?  I will actually sit down and watch this when it is available for streaming.  Now to be fair, I will also watch Mission Impossible when that is available for streaming.  Oppenheimer I may have to go to the theater myself to see as no one within my circle wants to sit through it.  

I forgot if it was we were discussing Comics General at the time or Westerns. Something about "The Wild Bunch".

[drotto]

On 7/31/2023 at 2:08 PM, sfcityduck said:

Barbie the doll is a little girl's toy.

Barbie the movie is not. It is aimed at an older audience with a PG-13 rating. A well made movie is going to satisfy a mixed audience. Don't doubt that women steeped in Barbie influence will have nostalgia that might drive them to the movie, but if there's a reason why men would not appreciate a well-made movie (other than some sort of political issue - and that's not about gender) it escapes me. Lots of women love LOTR and superhero movies.

Barbie is a 75% female audience, nothing wrong with that. It is more appealing to women. Oppenheimer is 65% men, nothing wrong with that.  Is just means one gender is more likely to see one film over the other. Has nothing to do with politics, just broad general tastes that tend to follow gender lines. 

[Gatsby77]

On 7/31/2023 at 2:15 PM, drotto said:

Barbie is a 75% female audience, nothing wrong with that. It is more appealing to women. Oppenheimer is 65% men, nothing wrong with that.  Is just means one gender is more likely to see one film over the other. Has nothing to do with politics, just broad general tastes that tend to follow gender lines. 

Yet Barbie has made ~2x that of Oppenheimer domestically so far.

Goes to women being an under-served demo.

Remember, Captain Marvel did $1.1 billion worldwide.

[drotto]

On 7/31/2023 at 2:08 PM, sfcityduck said:

Barbie the doll is a little girl's toy.

Barbie the movie is not. It is aimed at an older audience with a PG-13 rating. A well made movie is going to satisfy a mixed audience. Don't doubt that women steeped in Barbie influence will have nostalgia that might drive them to the movie, but if there's a reason why men would not appreciate a well-made movie (other than some sort of political issue - and that's not about gender) it escapes me. Lots of women love LOTR and superhero movies.

I am not sure why you are getting so defensive by pointing out that women want to see Barbie far more then men do?  The movie was made for, targeted at, and heavily promoted to women.  Makes perfect sense to me th imbalance and the decrease demand among men.  Just like something like John Wick is a violent action film, and the film is targeted at a male audience.  It's just good business.

Edited July 31, 2023 by drotto

[sfcityduck]

On 7/31/2023 at 11:12 AM, drotto said:

Not saying women can not enjoy these genres, my wife loves superheros, but the are definitely tendencies when you look at general populations.  With Barbie the viewers are 75% female, with the MCU is runs 60% male.  Even Wonder Woman, the most popular female hero only managed 52% women. That is a group tendency that says nothing about an individual.  For the most part comic books is something like 85% male. Those number do not lie.  In the 50's and 60's comic companies had large romance lines to appeal to the other groups.

 

Yes, comics have a soap opera element, but secondary to the main plots which were typical good vs evils, and heros journy stories, focused on action. It is the same reason most romance novels are read by women.  There are story types and eliments that play better with general groups. There is nothing wrong with that, and there is nothing wrong acknowledging that. Again, just a tendency.  

 

You can always find exceptions to the rule, and thats great, everyone is invited. I am talking about wide trends.

I was keying off your use of the term "inherently." It appears we are in agreement that's not the case.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 7/31/2023 at 2:15 PM, drotto said:

Barbie is a 75% female audience, nothing wrong with that. It is more appealing to women. Oppenheimer is 65% men, nothing wrong with that.  Is just means one gender is more likely to see one film over the other. Has nothing to do with politics, just broad general tastes that tend to follow gender lines. 

Let's also not ignore what messages Barbie sends. If one wishes to pretend that it's not there, all one must do is take a quick look on social media. Those things will drive/deter audiences.

Edited July 31, 2023 by theCapraAegagrus

[sfcityduck]

On 7/31/2023 at 11:15 AM, drotto said:

Barbie is a 75% female audience, nothing wrong with that. It is more appealing to women. Oppenheimer is 65% men, nothing wrong with that.  Is just means one gender is more likely to see one film over the other. Has nothing to do with politics, just broad general tastes that tend to follow gender lines. 

In this post, I was keying off your statement that "Barbie however is firmly and unabashedly female from the ground up." Folks that are unwilling to break out of their preconceptions are likely to miss some cool stuff. My point is simple: Barbie will entertain men. It is not just "female from the ground up."

[sfcityduck]

On 7/31/2023 at 11:28 AM, drotto said:

I am not sure why you are getting so defensive by pointing out that women want to see Barbie far more then men do?  The movie was made for, targeted at, and heavily promoted to women.  Makes perfect sense to me th imbalance and the decrease demand among men.  Just like something like John Wick is a violent action film, and the film is targeted at a male audience.  It's just good business.

I'm not getting defensive about that.  Once you made your point clear, by disavowing terms like "inherently" and "from the ground up," I think we are largely in agreement. I suspect that most men who attend Barbie (unless of a strident fringe political view) will be pleasantly surprised.

[sfcityduck]

On 7/31/2023 at 11:42 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Let's also not ignore what messages Barbie sends. If one wishes to pretend that it's not there, all one must do is take a quick look on social media. Those things will drive/deter audiences.

Probably less folks than you think. The political objection is a fringe view. The numbers don't lie. Barbie will be a top 50 all-time box office movie.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 7/31/2023 at 2:47 PM, sfcityduck said:

Probably less folks than you think. The political objection is a fringe view. The numbers don't lie. Barbie will be a top 50 all-time box office movie.

No, it's definitely more than you'd imagine. People don't like being preached to.

[Gatsby77]

On 7/31/2023 at 2:52 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

No, it's definitely more than you'd imagine. People don't like being preached to.

Apparently, by the box office so far, they do.

Social media outrage is not reality. Ticket sales are.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 7/31/2023 at 2:55 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Apparently, by the box office so far, they do.

Of which 75% is women. Point made.

[CAHokie]

On 7/31/2023 at 2:52 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

No, it's definitely more than you'd imagine. People don't like being preached to.

It’s a hard thing to judge. If something is Top-50 of all time being preachy, that is impressive. Maybe it could have been Top-30 if it wasn't. No way to know. 

[sfcityduck]

On 7/31/2023 at 11:52 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

No, it's definitely more than you'd imagine. People don't like being preached to.

Churches are quite popular in the U.S.  And some are really raking in the cash, at least in Northern California.

[drotto]

On 7/31/2023 at 3:04 PM, CAHokie said:

It’s a hard thing to judge. If something is Top-50 of all time being preachy, that is impressive. Maybe it could have been Top-30 if it wasn't. No way to know. 

The only way to "know " would be if the success of this movie is a one off.  When Barbie 2 comes out how will it perform. Equal or better, people don't care or agree with the message.  If number 2 crashes, you can have some ammunition for that argument.

 

Mattel reportedly has several other toy based movies in the pipeline, like Matchbox and Polly Pockets.  You could attempt some analysis based on those movies performance, but without knowing the plot or seeing, way too early to say.  Also, I doubt those IP's have the same strong fan base. Barbie is Mattel's premire IP, and I would be surprised if any of their other properties can repeat this.