WB's BARBIE THE MOVIE starring Margot Robbie (2023) 7 7

[sfcityduck]

On 7/28/2023 at 12:14 PM, october said:

Yeeeessssss.

There are better westerns, but none more awesome. 

Ghost man rides into town, blows up a hotel, makes a dwarf mayor, literally paints the town red and then renames it hell. Like many of my favorite movies, it's equal parts bizarre, hilarious and mildly disturbing. 

Westerns are a backwards looking genre with not a lot to say. Kung Fu movies helped kill them by doing violence better. As a result we still get more martial art movies than westerns. Science fiction drove the stake through their heart by adding social commentary relevant to the present to a space western type storytelling. When was the last successful western?  Brokeback Mountain? Are any in the top 30 highest grossing?

Barbie is more worthy of discussion because it is relevant and successful. Don’t get me wrong I like westerns of the classic peak years, pre-spaghetti, but they aren’t culturally relevant today.

Edited to add: No need for confusion Larryw7: Classic westerns are a great watch -- but audiences don't seem to connect with new westerns the way they did when the classics came out in the 20s,30s, 40s, and 50s.  Back then people were still alive who remembered when horses were the major mode of transportation or had parents and grandparents who did. The West is our past and period pieces from a hazy past don't appear to connect with people as well as movies about eventsstill in living memory, especially, movies set in current time periods (like most comic book movies), or a made-up period especially the future. I think the same is true for comics. Fopr example, I much preferred Doug Wildey's Classic Johnny Quest stories to Rio. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by sfcityduck

[Straw-Man]

talked to enough people to know barbie ain't my cup of tea.  that's fine.  and, "culturally relevant" or not, i could watch silverado once a month without ever missing having not seen ken on the silver screen.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Straw-Man

[Straw-Man]

"oh, he's going to get a fair trial; followed by a first-class hangin.'"

Edited July 30, 2023 by Straw-Man

[sfcityduck]

On 7/30/2023 at 11:15 AM, Straw-Man said:

talked to enough people to know barbie ain't my cup of tea.  that's fine.  and, "culturally relevant" or not, i could watch silverado once a month without ever missing having not seen ken on the silver screen.

Everyone gets an opinion, but I think they are more informed if you have experienced what you are talking about. It is worth experiencing new things to better inform your criticisms or, maybe sometimes, teach you new ways to laugh. If you drop an anchor and let it get stuck in the mud you’ve just mothballed your ship. 

To me Silverado is not nearly as good as a classic 50s western. I gave it a chance but while not bad it would never make my frequent repeat viewing list. It’s just nothing special to me. Certainly not a classic of the genre.

Edited to add: No need for confusion Larryw7, while Silverado has a "fresh" rating from Rotten Tomatoes, so most folks thinks its a decent movie and I'm not saying otherwise, it only gets about 80% from the audience ratings, a LOT less than a true classic period westerns like My Darling Clementine (100%), Fort Apache (100%), She Wore a Yellow Ribbon (92%), and The Searchers (94%) - the John Ford movies that Silverado sought to emulate.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by sfcityduck

[jdandns]

On 7/30/2023 at 11:09 AM, sfcityduck said:

Westerns are a backwards looking genre with not a lot to say. Kung Fu movies helped kill them by doing violence better. As a result we still more martial art movies than westerns. Science fiction drove the stake through their heart by adding social commentary relevant to the present to a space western type storytelling. When was the last successful western?  Brokeback Mountain? Are any in the top 30 highest grossing?

Barbie is more worthy of discussion because it is relevant and successful. Don’t get me wrong I like westerns of the classic peak years, pre-spaghetti, but they aren’t culturally relevant today.

Biggest recent westerns are Tarantino's "Django" in 2012, 450m worldwide on a 100m budget.

"True Grit" in 2010 got 250m on 30m, a nice return.

Last big tries were "Lone Ranger" (2013) which more or less broke even at 250m, Quentin's "Hateful 8" (2015) 150m on 60m, and "Dark Tower" (2017) which cost 66m and made 113m. The remake of "Magnificent Seven" that same year made 160m on a 100m cost, not enough for a sequel, it appears.

Biggest successes ever, both 30+ years ago, were "Dances With Wolves", 424m on a 22m investment, and "Unforgiven" with 159m on only 14m. "Legends of the Fall" (1994) made 160m on just 30m and "Maverick" that same year got 183m on 75m. 

Maybe Barbie 2 will be a Western. I mean, plenty of additional costumes have already been designed. 

 

[Gatsby77]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:09 PM, sfcityduck said:

Westerns are a backwards looking genre with not a lot to say. Kung Fu movies helped kill them by doing violence better. As a result we still more martial art movies than westerns. Science fiction drove the stake through their heart by adding social commentary relevant to the present to a space western type storytelling. When was the last successful western?  Brokeback Mountain? Are any in the top 30 highest grossing?

Barbie is more worthy of discussion because it is relevant and successful. Don’t get me wrong I like westerns of the classic peak years, pre-spaghetti, but they aren’t culturally relevant today.

I don't think any westerns are even in the top 200 highest-grossing films (not inflation-adjusted).

I did a quick scan of Box Office Mojo and the top-3 highest grossing westerns worldwide  I could find were:

1) The Revenant (2015) = $533 million

2) Django Unchained (2012) = $426.1 million

Those two are particularly impressive, given that they're both Rated R.

3) Dances With Wolves (1990) = $424.2 million

Adjusted for inflation, I think the top western domestically is Dances with Wolves - with the equivalent of a $400 million take.

Adjusted for inflation, Dances with Wolves sits just outside the top 150 highest-grossing (domestic) films of all-time.

In other words, no western has grossed as much domestically as Barbie.

[Gatsby77]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:47 PM, jdandns said:

Biggest recent westerns are Tarantino's "Django" in 2012, 450m worldwide on a 100m budget.

"True Grit" in 2010 got 250m on 30m, a nice return.

Last big tries were "Lone Ranger" (2013) which more or less broke even at 250m, Quentin's "Hateful 8" (2015) 150m on 60m, and "Dark Tower" (2017) which cost 66m and made 113m. The remake of "Magnificent Seven" that same year made 160m on a 100m cost, not enough for a sequel, it appears.

Biggest successes ever, both 30+ years ago, were "Dances With Wolves", 424m on a 22m investment, and "Unforgiven" with 159m on only 14m. "Legends of the Fall" (1994) made 160m on just 30m and "Maverick" that same year got 183m on 75m. 

 

You missed The Revenant (2015) - $533m worldwide on a $135m budget.

[sfcityduck]

On 7/30/2023 at 11:48 AM, Gatsby77 said:

 

In other words, no western has grossed as much domestically as Barbie.

These days it takes $1B plus to break into the top 50.  Inflation adjusted maybe some classic era westerns would be top 50, but I doubt any would in the the last 40 years.

Barbie is a phenomena! I think we may be seeing the beginning of the end of comic book movie dominance. Looks like ticket buyers are open to more intelligent films like Barbie and Oppenheimer.

Edited July 30, 2023 by sfcityduck

[MAR1979]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:53 PM, sfcityduck said:

These days it takes $1B plus to break into the top 50.  Inflation adjusted maybe some classic era westerns would be top 50, but I doubt any would in the the last 40 years.

Barbie is a phenomena! I think we may be seeing the beginning of the end of comic book movie dominance. Looks like ticket buyers are open to more intelligent films like Barbie and Oppenheimer.

buh buh buh what will that leave for Matt Tuck like moe ron's to orate

[CAHokie]

If a movie is good, I don’t care if it is culturally relevant or not. Is that really a criteria now?

[drotto]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:09 PM, sfcityduck said:

Westerns are a backwards looking genre with not a lot to say. Kung Fu movies helped kill them by doing violence better. As a result we still get more martial art movies than westerns. Science fiction drove the stake through their heart by adding social commentary relevant to the present to a space western type storytelling. When was the last successful western?  Brokeback Mountain? Are any in the top 30 highest grossing?

Barbie is more worthy of discussion because it is relevant and successful. Don’t get me wrong I like westerns of the classic peak years, pre-spaghetti, but they aren’t culturally relevant today.

Edited to add: No need for confusion Larryw7: Classic westerns are a great watch -- but audiences don't seem to connect with new westerns the way they did when the classics came out in the 20s,30s, 40s, and 50s.  Back then people were still alive who remembered when horses were the major mode of transportation or had parents and grandparents who did. The West is our past and period pieces from a hazy past don't appear to connect with people as well as movies about eventsstill in living memory, especially, movies set in current time periods (like most comic book movies), or a made-up period especially the future. I think the same is true for comics. Fopr example, I much preferred Doug Wildey's Classic Johnny Quest stories to Rio. 

Tell that to Taylor Sheridan. Seems to me he has the hottest streaming shows going right now, many of which are essentially modern day westerns. 

[drotto]

On 7/30/2023 at 3:36 PM, CAHokie said:

If a movie is good, I don’t care if it is culturally relevant or not. Is that really a criteria now?

Part of the problem today is everyone in entertainment is scrambling to claim they are culturally relevant.  The result is things becoming politicized or being perceived as politicized, that should just be a good story, and provide entertainment for everyone. Not saying you can not have politically infused entertainment, and that clearly has a place.  It just does not need to be injected into everything. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by drotto

[Bosco685]

I hope he brought his typewriter while there. I hear there is a book overdue.

[sfcityduck]

On 7/30/2023 at 1:02 PM, drotto said:

Part of the problem today is everyone in entertainment is scrambling to claim they are culturally relevant.  The result is things becoming politicized or being perceived as politicized, that should just be a good story, and provide entertainment for everyone. Not saying you can not have politically infused entertainment, and that clearly has a place.  It just does not need to be injected into everything. 

Movies have long been a proper place for politically charged entertainment. From the very beginning with Birth of a Nation (1915).  Lots of really great political movies. 

But here's the thing, recognizing that the world is not composed just of white people or straight people is not political at all.  That's just reality. Not sure why folks get upset when minority actors and characters start popping up in movies, or when <gasp> the movies treat folks equally. That's not politics. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Exodus, Dr. Strangelove, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, All the President's Men, etc., those are "politically infused" movies because they are actually about political controversies.

[sfcityduck]

On 7/30/2023 at 12:58 PM, drotto said:

Tell that to Taylor Sheridan. Seems to me he has the hottest streaming shows going right now, many of which are essentially modern day westerns. 

I'm not seeing any of his shows in the Top 25 right now. https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/popular-tv-shows/  Or any other westerns.

Nor do I see them in the Top 15 All-Time shows streamed on Netflix:

1. Squid Game season 1: 2.2 billion hours

2. Stranger Things season 4: 1.83 billion hours

3. Wednesday: 1.71 billion hours

4. Dahmer – Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story: 1.03 billion hours

5. Bridgerton season 1: 929.3 million hours

6. Money Heist part 5: 900.7 million hours

7. The Night Agent: 803.2 million hours

8. Bridgerton season 2: 797.2 million hours

9. The Queen's Gambit: 746.4 million hours

10. Stranger Things season 3: 716.1 million hours

11. Money Heist part 4: 710.2 million hours

12. All Of Us Are Dead season 1: 679.3 million hours

13. The Witcher season 1: 663.6 million hours

14. Lucifer season 5: 569.5 million hours

15. Queen Charlotte: 520.6 million hours

 

Which does not mean you can't make good westerns that people enjoy.  Just that it appears to be a much tougher genre to sell than superheroes, bodice rippers, SF, weird/horror, and many other types of shows.

[sfcityduck]

On 7/30/2023 at 12:38 PM, CAHokie said:

If a movie is good, I don’t care if it is culturally relevant or not. Is that really a criteria now?

For audiences it sure seems to be.  Our current culture seems obsessed with superhero movies.  So they are getting the biggest audiences. Westerns no so much.

[drotto]

On 7/30/2023 at 5:58 PM, sfcityduck said:

I'm not seeing any of his shows in the Top 25 right now. https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/popular-tv-shows/  Or any other westerns.

Nor do I see them in the Top 15 All-Time shows streamed on Netflix:

1. Squid Game season 1: 2.2 billion hours

2. Stranger Things season 4: 1.83 billion hours

3. Wednesday: 1.71 billion hours

4. Dahmer – Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story: 1.03 billion hours

5. Bridgerton season 1: 929.3 million hours

6. Money Heist part 5: 900.7 million hours

7. The Night Agent: 803.2 million hours

8. Bridgerton season 2: 797.2 million hours

9. The Queen's Gambit: 746.4 million hours

10. Stranger Things season 3: 716.1 million hours

11. Money Heist part 4: 710.2 million hours

12. All Of Us Are Dead season 1: 679.3 million hours

13. The Witcher season 1: 663.6 million hours

14. Lucifer season 5: 569.5 million hours

15. Queen Charlotte: 520.6 million hours

 

Which does not mean you can't make good westerns that people enjoy.  Just that it appears to be a much tougher genre to sell than superheroes, bodice rippers, SF, weird/horror, and many other types of shows.

I beg to differ. 

[sfcityduck]

On 7/30/2023 at 3:14 PM, drotto said:

I beg to differ. 

A different view:

Most Popular TV Shows, Movies on Streaming in 2022 - Variety

 

[CAHokie]

On 7/30/2023 at 6:14 PM, drotto said:

I beg to differ. 

A list of the top shows streaming on Netflix is a weird argument against a show….not streaming on Netflix.

[Straw-Man]

a western-loving kid must have taken duck's lunch money on the bus every effing day.  this broken record has me about to throw the record player out the window