Book Sold With Missing Page - Who Is Responsible? 7 7

[StillOnly25Cents]

words to look for in raw online comic book sale listings: complete, no rips or tears, all pages fully attached at staples, no added writing, no restoration, my return policy is …..

Unless you know the seller and their reputation or have a means to make a reasonable assessment  assume you are buying from someone that knows nothing about comics or that collecting them is a hobby and is looking to do nothing more than get money for something they have no interest in keeping however they happened into being the owner

Edited May 7, 2022 by StillOnly25Cents

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:26 PM, MAR1979 said:

On 5/7/2022 at 11:49 AM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Unfortunately IMO I would take this as paying for education.  Some lessons are more expensive to learn. It really sucks when this kind of thing happens, but as you said now you will be more vigilant in your assessment of future purchases.  So the education you acquired from this experience may save you from a more costly future mistake. 

The safest route is never purchase a raw book through any method other than in person or through a seller that you are very tight with. Still the former is safest.

I would definitely agree. Also operate like the Pawn Shops.  " it's not that I don't trust you, but I don't trust you." 

[zzutak]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:04 AM, Math Teacher said:

When you state that "Responsible adults do not attempt to shift blame.", is it safe to assume that you feel that I am attempting to shift blame on to the seller?

My statement was intended to be 100% general in nature, not specific to any single incident or transaction.  I expect some folks will agree, while others will disagree.  That doesn't bother me one bit.    As far as this specific transaction goes, I would fault the seller for not disclosing the missing leaf, and I would fault the buyer for not counting pages immediately upon receipt.  Two big fails.

Live and (hopefully) learn, right? 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:18 PM, MattTheDuck said:

Boy, the standards expected of sellers around here are sure low.  I'll keep that in mind as new sales threads are posted.

I couldn't live with myself if I were the seller in this situation.

I also completely agree with this statement.  

At the same time the way we know a lot of sellers can be changing the first statement to this would also be true.

Boy, the expectations of standard sellers around are sure low. 

[The Lions Den]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:18 PM, Math Teacher said:

I will fully admit that I am partially to blame for this problem. I should have taken the time to open the book and count the pages.

I'm really sorry this happened to you, and you seem like an intelligent, respectable person, but buying a raw book and not counting the pages is kind of like buying a used vehicle without taking it for a test drive...  

[darkstar]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:16 PM, Math Teacher said:

So, am I to understand that you are just fine with sellers selling incomplete books without identifying the flaws? You wouldn't think less of a seller if s/he sold you a book with no back cover, especially if wasn't mentioned in his/her post. I count the pages of every book that I sell. I don't do this because I am worried about the loss of the sale; I do this because I don't want to get the reputation of not being reliable.

You made the leap that the seller knowingly sold you a book without disclosing the missing page. It is far more likely that the seller didn't know the page was missing. And it is on you to inspect the book to confirm condition once it is in your possession.  

[KirbyJack]

I have been the guy on the other side of this, and mistakenly sold incomplete comics without disclosing it. 
I bent over backwards to make it right, and I would expect the same from most of the sellers here.

[speedcake]

Not sure if all this talk about low standards for sellers around here or whatever is necessary or warranted. 

I just make it a habit of checking every comic I buy to be sure there isn't an issue. even cheap ones. Why not? You are going to read through it anyway, aren't you?

Aren't you?

So count the pages at the same time!

 

[Math Teacher]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:40 PM, The Lions Den said:

I'm really sorry this happened to you, and you seem like an intelligent, respectable person, but buying a raw book and not counting the pages is kind of like buying a used vehicle without taking it for a test drive...  

I fully admit my mistake. I have seen this emphasized over and over here on the boards. In my case, this was a book for which I had been searching for quite some time. I was just excited to obtain it, and I wanted to get it to CGC as soon as possible. Normally, I only buy graded copies, especially if the book is $500+. I guess that is how I will have to proceed in the future.

[Math Teacher]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:44 PM, darkstar said:

You made the leap that the seller knowingly sold you a book without disclosing the missing page. It is far more likely that the seller didn't know the page was missing. And it is on you to inspect the book to confirm condition once it is in your possession.  

So, unless the seller purchased directly off the newsstand, it is safe to assume that the seller purchased it from someone else. Why would s/he be expected to count the pages when s/he purchased it?

[speedcake]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:46 PM, Math Teacher said:

I fully admit my mistake. I have seen this emphasized over and over here on the boards. In my case, this was a book for which I had been searching for quite some time. I was just excited to obtain it, and I wanted to get it to CGC as soon as possible. Normally, I only buy graded copies, especially if the book is $500+. I guess that is how I will have to proceed in the future.

I think you are still somehow missing the solution.

If a seller doesn't say anything in their listing about hidden flaws, you can do two things:

1) ask before you buy the book. This gets the seller on record regarding the matter. 

then...

2) inspect the book as soon as you receive it and if you discover hidden flaws, immediately take it up with the seller.

You do not need to give up on buying raw books at all. This is an over reaction that is completely unnecessary!

[Math Teacher]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:45 PM, speedcake said:

Not sure if all this talk about low standards for sellers around here or whatever is necessary or warranted. 

I just make it a habit of checking every comic I buy to be sure there isn't an issue. even cheap ones. Why not? You are going to read through it anyway, aren't you?

Aren't you?

So count the pages at the same time!

 

Actually, in this case, I did not plan to read this issue. I had read it in a DC Archive edition, and also in a DC Showcase edition. It was a key book that I wanted for my collection.

[Bird]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:50 PM, speedcake said:

I think you are still somehow missing the solution.

If a seller doesn't say anything in their listing about hidden flaws, you can do two things:

1) ask before you buy the book. This gets the seller on record regarding the matter. 

then...

2) inspect the book as soon as you receive it and if you discover hidden flaws, immediately take it up with the seller.

You do not need to give up on buying raw books at all. This is an over reaction that is completely unnecessary!

I agree. the rush to get to cgc is understandable but the delay to check pages is negligible. Just slow your roll...check your work before handing it in.

[StillOnly25Cents]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:50 PM, Math Teacher said:

So, unless the seller purchased directly off the newsstand, it is safe to assume that the seller purchased it from someone else. 

of course not, the seller could have come into the book via an inheritance or such

funny how whenever someone comes here to this forum to mention they have come into some books that they have no interest in keeping I never hear first mention of people here to make sure you get right on counting all the pages of all the books

[Axe Elf]

The internal moral interplay between "I take full responsibility for my mistake" and "I think the seller should bear some responsibility" is fascinating.

[ThothAmon]

Interesting and timely question. In January I won the Avengers 1-11 bound volume in the Heritage auction. Received the book in mid February. When I finally got around to going through it closely in April I noticed a married page near the end of the avengers 1. Heritage was stand up and took it back. It was the right thing to do. 

[Math Teacher]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:50 PM, speedcake said:

I think you are still somehow missing the solution.

If a seller doesn't say anything in their listing about hidden flaws, you can do two things:

1) ask before you buy the book. This gets the seller on record regarding the matter. 

I never thought of this. Of course, when I buy a car, I never stop to ask, "Do the four tires come with this car?"

To some degree, I am learning just to assume everyone is dishonest. I'm a very pessimistic person, but this goes far beyond my belief system.

[speedcake]

I don’t know what else to say, comic books aren’t new cars.

And you are consistently insinuating that sellers are dishonest if you as the buyer discover, months later, hidden flaws in books you bought from them. This rather than accepting that mistakes happen.
 

 

[Ares]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:18 PM, Math Teacher said:

This a hypothetical situation.

Let's say I purchased a book on IG. When the seller listed the book, there was no information included about a missing page. I received the book, and I made a major mistake - I forgot to count the pages. Within a couple of weeks and without removing the book from its bag, I sent the book to Joey Post for pressing/cleaning. When Joey was finished with the book, it was dropped off at CGC. Between Joey and CGC, the whole process took approximately nine months. When the book was returned, I was disappointed to find that it received a 0.5, as it was missing page.

I will fully admit that I am partially to blame for this problem. I should have taken the time to open the book and count the pages. This was a terrible mistake, and it is one that I will never repeat. However, I don't think that I should shoulder all the blame for this problem. If the seller had informed me that the book was missing a page, I would have never bought it.

The major snafu in all of this is the turnaround time between Joey and CGC. I am in no way complaining about either Joey or CGC, as I honestly expected to receive the book sometime in June. When the seller was informed about this issue, s/he stated that it was far too late for her/him to return the book from the person s/he purchased it from, and s/he stated that there was nothing s/he could do.

To me, the seller and I should both share the responsibility of this mistake. Yes, I should have opened the book up and counted the pages. However, the seller should have disclosed the missing page of the book prior to offering it for sale. 

In your opinion, how should this situation be handled? Should I have to just eat the purchase price and grading fees, or should the seller be willing to refund some money?

FYI - Some time ago, I purchased two Atlas Black Knight books from @jimjum12. jimjum12 guaranteed that if any was any restoration found, I could send the book back to him and he would refund my money. Fortunately, no restoration was found, and we were both were happy. Of course, this was back in 2020, when the turnaround times of Joey and CGC were considerably less than they are now. However, I had no doubt that jimjum12 would have refunded my money, even after 6+ months. 

Anyway, I would like to hear your thoughts on this hypothetical situation.

If you honestly ,missed the page before passing it on what makes you think the original seller was dishonest. And also if months passed and they buyer came up to me and said I found a problem. Id say to late.

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Ares

[speedcake]

On 5/7/2022 at 2:31 PM, Ares said:

If you honestly ,missed the page before passing it on what makes you think the original seller was dishonest. And also 9 months is a long time. If something came up to me 9  months after a sale and said they found a problem i say its not my problem anymore

yes, OP's own logic dictates that we view him with the same level of distrust and suspicion of dishonesty he is expecting from sellers.  Of course most of us would never do that without being given a reason to, and maybe its something he can't help.