What exactly are "warehouse finds"?

[1962]

I located Church's daughter a couple of years ago. She is in her 80's. No other children are alive. I wrote to her about her fathers collection and wanted to get the familys point of view concerning everything about the collection. The letter was not returned, so I assume she got the letter. Unfortunately she never responded. I later passed on my information to Matt Nelson in the hope that he would have better luck in getting her to talk, so he could put the info in the Pedigree book that he is writing. Unfortunately the last time I heard from Matt his luck had been no better than mine in getting the daughter to speak.

[joe_collector]

Does anyone have any further info on the lawsuit that was supposedly launched by the Church family against Chuckles?

[1962]

I looked for such a lawsuit filing, but was never able to come up with anything. Then again if such a lawsuit was filed, at this point in time it would most likely be buried in some court archive that would be very difficult to locate.

[PedigreeMan]

To anyone who hasn't been on these boards for a while, let me just add the caveat that Joe_Collector is an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. He backs absolutely nothing up with any facts and browbeats a subject to the point where a person simply wants to agree with him just to shut him the heck up. This board would be a much better place without him and his disinformation.

 

Here are the facts: The Edgar Church house has 786 sq. ft of space on its main floor, and an equal amount of space in its basement. Of that basement space, 700 sq. ft is finished. There are two bedrooms and one bath on the main floor. Edgar Church had a wife and two children, and they all lived in this home at some point during their lives. Based on their ages, it can be assumed that the children lived there at some point while Edgar was amassing his collection.

 

Approx 20,000 comics (the actual numbers have ranged from 18,000 to 22,000) were amassed and stored in the basement of the house from the mid-1930s until the mid-1950s. Additionally, Edgar Church had many drawings, clippings, art files, magazines, and other paper ephemera stored in this basement during this time. The Mile High Comics website has a small portion of this work on display, and has displayed other works in person at comic conventions over the years. An unknown quantity of this extraneous ephemera has also been sold off over the years, some of it to Steve Geppi and some of it via other channels. However, without having a complete inventory of this ephemera, it is not feasible to assess whether Chuck's description of an entire office overflowing with the stuff is accurate or hyperbole. Given Edgar's OCD-like behavior with regard to his comic collecting combined with the above-mentioned known ephemera, I tend to believe that the man had a difficult time throwing anything away, and thus believe Chuck's description.

 

Mull over those facts for a minute. Twenty thousand comic books stuffed into 700 sq. ft. Half of the house filled with Edgar's stuff. Now put yourself into the shoes of the Church children. All of a sudden, Daddy seems a bit selfish, doesn't he?

 

Fast forward twenty years. An elderly Edgar needs assisted living care (he is not in a coma ... that's more JC disinformation). This more than likely blindsides the children, as one is hardly ever prepared for their parent's final days. After a discussion, they decide to sell the family home, as neither parent will be returning to it. But first, they need to clear the place out.

 

Twenty thousand comic books stuffed into a closet, overflowing into the hallways of this basement. An office filled with paper ephemera. Think about it. When my wife's mother passed, we needed to clean out an apartment half that size and containing 1/100th the detritus. We saved nothing, and actually had to pay a few hundred dollars to have a majority of the stuff hauled away.

 

Twenty thousand comic books. Does anyone have any idea how much space that takes up? I'm sure you've all seen more than that in a comic book store or on display at a convention, but how many of you have seen that amount of books in a home? And in a tiny home, no less.

 

Those books were an albatross around that family's neck and here was a guy willing to give them money to haul the stuff away? I guarantee you, anyone of you would have jumped at the chance. Believe me, at that moment in your life, you just want the damn things gone.

 

Now, when Chuck saw that there was an Action #1 and an All American #16 and a Marvel #1, did he clam up? You betcha. But he admits to this! The first books he saw were the ones in the hallways -- the ones from the 1950s that were slow movers and didn't guide for much. The keys were buried in the closet, and Chuck didn't even find most of them until he started sorting the haul at his home. But by then, the deal was agreed to.

 

Now am I saying that Chuck was a saint through all of this? Of course not. The ethical dilemma he faced and the path he ultimately chose will be debated forever. But I don't believe he's embellished any portion of the story. And any accolades one may perceive he is looking for in preserving the greatest comic find ever lies really in his subpar writing ability.

 

Yeah, I like Chuck and am thankful for whatever forces conspired to bring the Edgar Church collection to light. But if I ever felt that he had rooked the family as badly as some believe, I would be the first in line with the pitchfork. The facts and human experience just lead me to believe that he's telling the truth. One can disagree with the moral and ethical issues, but for God's sake, at least get the freaking facts correct.

 

Alan

[sckao]

 

Nice recap. Everything you've speculated on seems plausible.

[drbanner]

To anyone who hasn't been on these boards for a while, let me just add the caveat that Joe_Collector is an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. He backs absolutely nothing up with any facts and browbeats a subject to the point where a person simply wants to agree with him just to shut him the heck up. This board would be a much better place without him and his disinformation.

 

Alan

 

[joe_collector]

But I don't believe he's embellished any portion of the story.

 

And you say I am not being factual.

 

Anyone who actually believes that Chuck does NOT embellish is the world's number one insufficiently_thoughtful_person. You sir, lay claim to that title, and have my congratulations.

[joe_collector]

To anyone who hasn't been on these boards for a while, let me just add the caveat that Joe_Collector is an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. He backs absolutely nothing up with any facts and browbeats a subject to the point where a person simply wants to agree with him just to shut him the heck up. This board would be a much better place without him and his disinformation.

 

 

I think it's pretty obvious that Al here is a bud of Chuck's, otherwise why get all fired up with the insults, and offer up this bizarre conjecture on what the Church heirs were thinking? Who does this guy think he is, Kreskin?

 

I guess there are so many anti-JC people on here, even happy horseshat like Al is spouting is cheered on as the gospel truth, just because he continues to insult me??

 

I find it highly amusing that he seems to think he's a psychic of some sort, understanding what the family thinks, figuring out their hidden motives, all the while painting Chuckles as some Knight in Shining Armor..

 

What a CROCK.

[joe_collector]

Nice recap. Everything you've speculated on seems plausible.

 

That's EXACTLY what is is, SPECULATION. No one knows what the family was thinking, or what their motives were, or how they viewed their father, or what they thought of the comics, or what their mental state was, etc.

 

The only people that know that are the Churches.

 

But oh no, Al the noted psychic, thinks he can work through the timestream to 1977, and divine exactly what everyone in the world was thinking, feeling and doing at that point in time. And he accuses me of not being factual.

 

Amazing, simply amazing. Now it's time for your medication Al.

[joe_collector]

An elderly Edgar needs assisted living care (he is not in a coma ... that's more JC disinformation).

 

I find this interesting that you would put it this way, as it may appear that Ed Church was busy running around some "assistive living care" facility, lawn bowling with his elderly pals and dancing with the old ladies.

 

When it reality he was dying, and whether he was officially in a coma or not is irrelevant, especially given your callous reply as to his actual condition.

[PedigreeMan]

But I don't believe he's embellished any portion of the story.

 

And you say I am not being factual.

 

Anyone who actually believes that Chuck does NOT embellish is the world's number one insufficiently_thoughtful_person. You sir, lay claim to that title, and have my congratulations.

 

We're not talking about other Chuck stories, just the Edgar Church one. And based on all of the research I've done on this pedigree, I have yet to find any aspect of it that I feel Chuck lied about.

 

I will say this much, though: I believe most of Chuck's stories WAY MORE than I believe any of yours, Vince.

[joe_collector]

And based on all of the research I've done on this pedigree, I have yet to find any aspect of it that I feel Chuck lied about.

 

I get it now, this "Chuckles as the White Knight" scenario is is being used as the "gospel truth" in some pedigree book or other publication, right?

 

P.S. Do you know Chuck personally?

[tth2]

Great post, Alan. While none of us will ever know the true story or the true mindset of Edgar Church's children, everything you've said is entirely plausible and believable to me than whatever nonsense JC is spouting now. JC keeps saying no one knows the real truth, but keeps presenting his version of what happened as if it were gospel truth too.

[tth2]

I will say this much, though: I believe most of Chuck's stories WAY MORE than I believe any of yours, Vince.

[joe_collector]

Here's the absolute truth:

 

Chuck purchased the greatest Golden Age collection ever known for even less than the original owner paid to acquire them at cover price.

 

From that, you can believe he is an Angel or the Devil Incarnate, but anything else is conjecture.

[joe_collector]

Great post, Alan.

 

Wow, now it's an official meeting of the anti-JC club.

 

I just love how you agree with pro-Chuck drivel that Al is spouting, ONLY because he's insulting me, and a sheep like yourself feels the need to chime in.

[joe_collector]

Hey Al, do you know Chuck personally?

[tth2]

Here's the absolute truth:

 

Chuck purchased the greatest Golden Age collection ever known for even less than the original owner paid to acquire them at cover price.

 

From that, you can believe he is an Angel or the Devil Incarnate, but anything else is conjecture.

Okay, I can agree with that.

[mstryinspc-migration]

Does anyone have any further info on the lawsuit that was supposedly launched by the Church family against Chuckles?

 

What lawsuit? the one you want to happen because you hate Chuck?

What basis would the children have? He offered us money and and we accepted then we found out they were worth far more so he should die like a dog? I don't give a damn about Chuck but this is ludicrious!

 

The man did a deal got the best of it and sold the books. Your freaking talking 1977-1986 dollars on the books. if he got 5 dollars per book average it would have been a lot that collection today re assembled would be worth what 12 million?

 

Of course Chuck remembers the deal on his side of fondly but the basics are 100% true because it was the same thing he told 25 freaking years ago about it. They wanted the books out he was willing to pay them not the other way around and he bought them. Yes he did not have the money he offered yes he sold and borrowed for more, asked the people he sold too. Plain and simple you really are trying to demonize him.

 

As for the MH 2 deal oh yea he bought "stolen" comics "BULLLSH_T" Remainders ARE NOT STOLEN. They per the distributor agreements maybe resold as NOT NEW, which was the exact thing he was doing buying them for pennies on the cover. The distrubutors didn't want those things back, neither did the publishers. I lived in NYC and now I was dealing in NYC at the time we all were looking around back then for those kinds of deals. I found plenty usually in small batches 500-5000 books. Some inked some not virtually none had their top half ripped off as per the normal way of recording a non newstand sale.

 

The only reason you probably hate this guy and this deal is that is so freaking famous for having found it and your not.

 

Joe you denigrate the name with your bull.

[joe_collector]

Is that you Chuckles?

 

And as for being jealous of Chuck finding the MH collection, I was like 9-10 years old at the time, and I would DEFINITELY not trade my life for whatever is left of his.