Can Confirm. 2 2

[The Lions Den]

On 7/2/2022 at 1:09 PM, Gaard said:

Can you confirm/deny that they do? It's been my understanding that the graders do not know if a book went thru CCS. Of course, that's just what CGC has told us.

The graders don't usually care about where the book came from---to be honest, when you grade hundreds of books a day that really should be the least of your concerns. I'm talking about having the ability to recognize whether a book has been pressed based on certain characteristics, because with some books it's pretty hard to tell.

And I'm sorry to have to say this, but the notion that they'd deny a book a particular grade because it wasn't pressed by a certain source is pretty ludicrous...  

[Kevin76]

I've literally took books under a magnifying glass with an LED light and only submitted flawless books, if so much as anything had a fuzzy corner, I rejected it. Stuff still came back 9.6. with no grader notes. Total BS.  Finalizers are paranoid to give 9.8s now.   

Edited July 2, 2022 by Kevin76

[Hero Restoration]

I think they could tell a bad press job from the beginning. They use to call it restoration, remember? Then they realized they could only detect bad pressing, and abandoned the notion it was restoration in 2004, to avoid "missed pressing".

Nowadays, I don't  think it's the same. Yes, I am sure they hammer bad pressing, but I also think todays graders are numb to the wonders pressing has done for books technical grade. For example, a wrinkled book could jump 5 grades back in the day, now nearly no bump at all? Really?  Loose, yes, tight, yes. This is the tightest ever by the most ever, and I agree it will dilute all grades from 2006-2020.

If I was buying, I would say forget any older labels. Buy fresh, that is where the new value will be. Members can see when a book was graded, and that will be factored in buying price more than ever. You could say it's unprecedented, (yes, I know that is so 2020 late) LoL

Remember the saying, buy the book, not the grade? Now it's buy the newest graded, or lose money. And while it doesn't bother me a bit, it is the end of the "sure thing bump"................

[Hero Restoration]

On 7/1/2022 at 6:43 PM, joeypost said:

Lots of factors are in play here.

1. Book could have been graded during a "loose grading" period.

2. With Matt the current President he is looking at books through the eye of a "presser". I would think everyone is being trained the same way. Which is not how they were looked at when CGC started. You will notice this when you crack out old slabs and notice 9.8 books that would come back 9.6/9.4 today. 

3. New hires. This is only my opinion, but I cannot see how anyone is "up to speed" in a few months. Experts are called experts because they have thousands of hours invested into their hobby/profession. If these new graders did not start out as comic people, the ramp up time would be considerably longer. 

4. Grading is tighter now, which is not always a bad thing. Only problem with changing standards on the fly, is you dilute the value of your older products. How many early books are sitting in 9.8 holders that would never grade 9.8 by today's standards? 

Because you remove some sin from a book, doesn't always guarantee it will get an upgrade. 

I think they could tell a bad press job from the beginning. They use to call it restoration, remember? Then they realized they could only detect bad pressing, and abandoned the notion it was restoration in 2004, to avoid "missed pressing".

Nowadays, I don't  think it's the same. Yes, I am sure they hammer bad pressing, but I also think todays graders are numb to the wonders pressing has done for books technical grade. For example, a wrinkled book could jump 5 grades within months of grading back in the day, now nearly no bump at all? Really?  Loose, yes, tight, yes. This is the tightest ever by the most ever, and I agree it will dilute all grades from 2006-2020.

If I was buying, I would say forget any older labels. Buy fresh, that is where the new value will be. Members can see when a book was graded, and that will be factored in buying price more than ever. You could say it's unprecedented, (yes, I know that is so 2020 late) LoL

Remember the saying, buy the book, not the grade? Now it's buy the newest graded, or lose money. And while it doesn't bother me a bit, it is the end of the "sure thing bump"................

Edited July 2, 2022 by Hero Restoration

[Hero Restoration]

On 7/2/2022 at 1:42 PM, OtherMan said:

That's not quite how it happened. CGC always wanted to create their own unresto/pressing company as another revenue stream from Day One. Borock never considered pressing restoration, and the only time you'll see it on the label is on the 1st Gen labels where it's both "cleaned and pressed". This is why CGC secretly created PCS in 2005 and had selected participants sign an NDA. CGC used shady tactics to force the Hobby to accept pressing I'm sure it will surprise no one that Borock's good buddy Matt Nelson was in on pressing behind the scenes from Day One

 

I find what you are saying fascinating, but......Someone with this knowledge is not a new arrival to the boards, so...........You should send me a PM.

[Gaard]

On 7/2/2022 at 3:26 PM, The Lions Den said:

The graders don't usually care about where the book came from---to be honest, when you grade hundreds of books a day that really should be the least of your concerns. I'm talking about having the ability to recognize whether a book has been pressed based on certain characteristics, because with some books it's pretty hard to tell.

And I'm sorry to have to say this, but the notion that they'd deny a book a particular grade because it wasn't pressed by a certain source is pretty ludicrous...  

I agree that this line of thinking comes dangerously close to falling in the realm of conspiracy theory, but to quote Angela Bassett in the movie Contact, "we won't be suppressing any opinions here today".

It's quite obvious, to me, that when it comes to CGC grading lately, something is rotten in the state of Denmark. There's just too much...grades far off, phantom flaws lasted in the notes, and from my own personal experience, the exact same flaw listed for every book in a multiple book submission. Even the naysayers have to agree that there is way too much inconsistency going on. What is debatable is the level of deliberateness. My opinion, and I realize many, many people will disagree with me, is that there is a certain underhandedness going on down there. I understand that mistakes will happen. That's a given ... and expected. But there's just too many lies for me to believe these are all just honest mistakes.

[Hero Restoration]

On 7/2/2022 at 1:50 PM, OtherMan said:

I just had my 20th anniversary here on the Board 

Uh, WTF? Two different accounts, but not shill? Man, I guess I haven't been on the boards enough. LoL 

[Hero Restoration]

On 7/2/2022 at 2:10 PM, OtherMan said:

Oh no, you misunderstand, I am definitely a shill. I just don't give a . Never have

 

LoL! Okay, so now it's so bad you can link your self, and no one the make the observation? It is a different time indeed!

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 7/2/2022 at 4:04 PM, Hero Restoration said:

Uh, WTF? Two different accounts, but not shill? Man, I guess I haven't been on the boards enough. LoL 

Stu..

[Hero Restoration]

On 7/2/2022 at 2:10 PM, OtherMan said:

Oh no, you misunderstand, I am definitely a shill. I just don't give a . Never have

 

Does 20 years count when you haven't posted since 2003? ;-)

[Hero Restoration]

On 7/2/2022 at 2:16 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Stu..

I feel like an outsider! LOL I have seen that emoji with name, but don't recall making an association. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 7/2/2022 at 4:42 PM, OtherMan said:

That's not quite how it happened. CGC always wanted to create their own unresto/pressing company as another revenue stream from Day One. Borock never considered pressing restoration, and the only time you'll see it on the label is on the 1st Gen labels where it's both "cleaned and pressed". This is why CGC secretly created PCS in 2005 and had selected participants sign an NDA. CGC used shady tactics to force the Hobby to accept pressing I'm sure it will surprise no one that Borock's good buddy Matt Nelson was in on pressing behind the scenes from Day One

 

I believe it was Chris Friesen who was pressing books in-house for CGC at the very beginning.   

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 7/2/2022 at 5:29 PM, OtherMan said:

I see what you're saying after re-reading my post. I didn't mean to insinuate Matt was working for CGC at the time, rather he was one of the first regular dealers to know that pressing wouldn't be considered resto because of his friendship with Borock. 

If not for pressing, CGC wouldn’t have been able to “fix” the books that suffered from SCS.    There was no way Borock was going to allow pressing to continue to be labelled restoration.  Without the ability to repair the damage caused by their own slab , CGC would have been in serious trouble. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by THE_BEYONDER

[Iconic1s]

On 7/1/2022 at 3:07 PM, Kevin76 said:

Nice that you got the right edge of the cover bends out, if it's an overhang, bends like that can be a pain to get out if the paper is being a 

They have been hammering moderns lately, books that a 9.8s all day long are coming back 9.6 even 9.4 with no grader notes on anything.  Either they are giving the book any grade off the top of their heads and avoiding 9.8s cause they wanna be strict or they are trying to upset the customer so they resend the book back and try again.  

Shoot, I got an 8.5 Modern with no notes!  Woulda made me crazy except the rest of the grades (15 books) were close enough to what I thought, to not make a big deal of it. 

[Lazyboy]

On 7/2/2022 at 4:04 PM, Hero Restoration said:

Uh, WTF? Two thousand different accounts, but not shill known to me? Man, I guess I haven't been on the boards enough. LoL 

Fixed.

[The Lions Den]

On 7/2/2022 at 3:58 PM, Kevin76 said:

I've literally took books under a magnifying glass with an LED light and only submitted flawless books, if so much as anything had a fuzzy corner, I rejected it. Stuff still came back 9.6. with no grader notes. Total BS.  Finalizers are paranoid to give 9.8s now.   

[jokiing]

On 7/2/2022 at 1:51 PM, Gaard said:

It's quite obvious, to me, that when it comes to CGC grading lately, something is rotten in the state of Denmark. There's just too much...grades far off, phantom flaws listed in the notes, and from my own personal experience, the exact same flaw listed for every book in a multiple book submission. Even the naysayers have to agree that there is way too much inconsistency going on. What is debatable is the level of deliberateness. My opinion, and I realize many, many people will disagree with me, is that there is a certain underhandedness going on down there. I understand that mistakes will happen. That's a given ... and expected. But there's just too many lies for me to believe these are all just honest mistakes.

Yup.... similar experience. Getting odd number of books graded 9.2 that in the not so distant past were coming back 9.4 -9.6

[Kevin76]

On 7/4/2022 at 4:09 PM, jokiing said:

Yup.... similar experience. Getting odd number of books graded 9.2 that in the not so distant past were coming back 9.4 -9.6

CGC's answer is to that is to raise the submission prices and TATs 

[theCapraAegagrus]

It's nice to see the grader notes seem accurate before-to-after. Without having the pressed book in hand, it's tough for me to condemn the After grade. Obviously, it's going to look flat-out better than Before, but that doesn't mean that it's technically a better-grade comic book.