Can Confirm. 2 2

[Hero Restoration]

Been very suspicious of too tight of grading the last 18 months or so. This book was an experiment to see how grading has changed. I didn't expect a big bump, the book has some issues, but I thought it should have went up, not stay the same.

You be the judge, maybe the improvements were moot, either way, no more cracking for me.

Grade Date

03/21/2019

 

Grader Notes

light creasing to cover
light spine stress lines to cover
moderate bends to cover
moderate foxing to cover

 

Grade Date

06/17/2022

 

Grader Notes

foxing interior
foxing to cover
light creasing to cover
medium crease left bottom of front cover breaks color
spine stress lines to cover

[Kevin76]

Nice that you got the right edge of the cover bends out, if it's an overhang, bends like that can be a pain to get out if the paper is being a 

They have been hammering moderns lately, books that a 9.8s all day long are coming back 9.6 even 9.4 with no grader notes on anything.  Either they are giving the book any grade off the top of their heads and avoiding 9.8s cause they wanna be strict or they are trying to upset the customer so they resend the book back and try again.  

[The Lions Den]

On 7/1/2022 at 4:07 PM, Kevin76 said:

They have been hammering moderns lately, books that a 9.8s all day long are coming back 9.6 even 9.4 with no grader notes on anything.  Either they are giving the book any grade off the top of their heads and avoiding 9.8s cause they wanna be strict or they are trying to upset the customer so they resend the book back and try again.  

Perhaps it's the new business model...streamlined for maximum throughput.   

[Grottu]

Nice job on the crease removal, but maybe the foxing worsened over the three years it was inside the slab? (Edited this to remove my mistaken belief that the foxing wasn’t mentioned in earlier grading notes, as was politely noted by another boardie)

Edited July 1, 2022 by Grottu

[Grottu]

On 7/1/2022 at 6:55 PM, OtherMan said:

Read them again 

Doh…you’re right. Need my glasses checked 

[Kevin76]

On 7/1/2022 at 6:50 PM, Grottu said:

Nice job on the crease removal, but maybe the foxing worsened over the three years it was inside the slab? (Edited this to remove my mistaken belief that the foxing wasn’t mentioned in earlier grading notes, as was politely noted by another boardie)

You can still see it, it was a pretty sharp crease but it's still there and creases like that won't come all the way out 100%, CGC mentioned in the notes as moderate crease which is now light crease

[joeypost]

Lots of factors are in play here.

1. Book could have been graded during a "loose grading" period.

2. With Matt the current President he is looking at books through the eye of a "presser". I would think everyone is being trained the same way. Which is not how they were looked at when CGC started. You will notice this when you crack out old slabs and notice 9.8 books that would come back 9.6/9.4 today. 

3. New hires. This is only my opinion, but I cannot see how anyone is "up to speed" in a few months. Experts are called experts because they have thousands of hours invested into their hobby/profession. If these new graders did not start out as comic people, the ramp up time would be considerably longer. 

4. Grading is tighter now, which is not always a bad thing. Only problem with changing standards on the fly, is you dilute the value of your older products. How many early books are sitting in 9.8 holders that would never grade 9.8 by today's standards? 

Because you remove some sin from a book, doesn't always guarantee it will get an upgrade. 

[Topnotchman]

I don't see anything here as historically the grades of 5.5 to 6.5 have been the most volatile gray area grades for inconsistencies, a book will regrade the same or upgrade by just sending in as is or pressed.    The top end grades and low end grades are easier and more consistant for a CGC grader or upgrader to nail down as there are obvious flaws that are allowed or are not allowed, more black and white. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Topnotchman
spelling

[Kevin76]

They probably say "well this didn't go through CCS and was pressed by a 3rd party "No 9.8 for you!"  

[joeypost]

If that were the case, CGC would be opening the door to a class action lawsuit. 

[Kevin76]

On 7/2/2022 at 10:55 AM, joeypost said:

If that were the case, CGC would be opening the door to a class action lawsuit. 

Never know 

[Gaard]

On 7/1/2022 at 9:43 PM, joeypost said:

3. New hires. This is only my opinion, but I cannot see how anyone is "up to speed" in a few months. Experts are called experts because they have thousands of hours invested into their hobby/profession. If these new graders did not start out as comic people, the ramp up time would be considerably longer. 

I share this opinion.

It also seems like some of these graders think that the more flaws they find (or say that they find) makes them a better grader.

[The Lions Den]

On 7/1/2022 at 9:43 PM, joeypost said:

3. New hires. This is only my opinion, but I cannot see how anyone is "up to speed" in a few months. Experts are called experts because they have thousands of hours invested into their hobby/profession. If these new graders did not start out as comic people, the ramp up time would be considerably longer. 

I agree 100%.  

[The Lions Den]

On 7/1/2022 at 11:28 PM, Topnotchman said:

I don't see anything here as historically the grades of 5.5 to 6.5 have been the most volatile gray area grades for inconsistencies, a book will regrade the same or upgrade by just sending in as is or pressed.    The top end grades and low end grades are easier and more consistant for a CGC grader or upgrader to nail down as there are obvious flaws that are allowed or are not allowed, more black and white. 

[The Lions Den]

On 7/2/2022 at 1:07 AM, Kevin76 said:

They probably say "well this didn't go through CCS and was pressed by a 3rd party "No 9.8 for you!"  

That would be going on the assumption they could even tell if a book had been pressed...  

[Gaard]

On 7/2/2022 at 12:57 PM, The Lions Den said:

That would be going on the assumption they could even tell if a book had been pressed...  

Can you confirm/deny that they do? It's been my understanding that the graders do not know if a book went thru CCS. Of course, that's just what CGC has told us.

[Topnotchman]

The graders likely know which books are pressed by just looking at them.  There are small subtle clues, like how round is the spine, does the spine look to flat, or pointed to the back cover or front cover.  One can tell if fillers or fluff were added to the book during pressing or left out.   Is there flaring or curving to the corners, does the book have waves, is there pebbling or finger bends. They can reverse engineer CCS and other large pressing submitters because of there large volume of books and how the book lays while on the table absent or inclusive of clues listed above.  Unfortunately I believe at times they have drifted into grading the pressing, not taking into account on how the books actually looked the day they were released on the stands, and what were the common flaws from each era. 

[joeypost]

On 7/2/2022 at 2:06 PM, Topnotchman said:

The graders likely know which books are pressed by just looking at them.  There are small subtle clues, like how round is the spine, does the spine look to flat, or pointed to the back cover or front cover.  One can tell if fillers or fluff were added to the book during pressing or left out.   Is there flaring or curving to the corners, does the book have waves, is there pebbling or finger bends. They can reverse engineer CCS and other large pressing submitters because of there large volume of books and how the book lays while on the table absent or inclusive of clues listed above.  Unfortunately I believe at times they have drifted into grading the pressing, not taking into account on how the books actually looked the day they were released on the stands, and what were the common flaws from each era. 

See point 2 that I listed. 

[joeypost]

On 7/2/2022 at 1:09 PM, Gaard said:

Can you confirm/deny that they do? It's been my understanding that the graders do not know if a book went thru CCS. Of course, that's just what CGC has told us.

They can easily tell a bad pressing job.

[PovertyRow]

On 7/2/2022 at 9:41 AM, Gaard said:

I share this opinion.

It also seems like some of these graders think that the more flaws they find (or say that they find) makes them a better grader.