KirbyTown Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 (edited) Hi everyone, thanks in advance for sharing your expertise. I'm hoping to get educated on current estimates for maximum Universal grade in the following "otherwise, perfect!" situations: -Missing one staple, not manufacturing -Cover detached at one staple -Cover detached -Centerfold detached at one staple -Centerfold detached -Tape present (when not considered restorative) I appreciate you taking the time! Edited July 10, 2022 by KirbyTown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzutak Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 In 2010, I attempted to deconstruct or "reverse engineer" CGC's proprietary (and still unpublished) grading rubric. I think I got very close -- even Steve Borock thought my work was strong enough to be pinned at the top of this forum. My post (and the comments that follow) are worth reading. Here are my conclusions regarding detachment defects: "On this basis, it appears that: a lightly worn book with a cover detached at a single staple will have a Universal Grade of 7.0 to 7.5; a book with a completely detached cover will have a Universal Grade of 4.0 or lower (depending on the severity of its other defects); a pristine book with a centerfold detached at a single staple will have a Universal Grade as high as 9.2 or 9.4; and a lightly worn book with a completely detached centerfold will have a Universal Grade of 6.5 to 7.0." CGC’s grading and/or slab labeling standards have changed (and will no doubt continue to evolve) with time, and CGC's graders, being human, have been known to occasionally deviate from a well-established standard. Hence, past performance is no guarantee of future results. marvelmaniac and grendelbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzutak Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 I can offer this in response to your "missing staple, not manufacturing" question: grendelbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzutak Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 (edited) You're going to have to be considerably more specific with respect to your "tape" question, as its effect on grade depends on (1) where it is (front cover, back cover, inside cover, interior page), (2) how much there is (piece size, number of pieces), (3) whether it's stained the paper, and (4) why it was applied. I'm going to let @grendelbo or someone else deal with this one. Edited July 10, 2022 by zzutak Funnybooks and grendelbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funnybooks Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 @grendelbo zzutak and grendelbo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendelbo Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 On 7/10/2022 at 4:55 PM, Funnybooks said: @grendelbo On 7/10/2022 at 4:53 PM, zzutak said: I'm going to let @grendelbo or someone else deal with this one. I thought this thread was done once @zzutakresponded. His are words to heed and the 2010 thread he mentioned is an invaluable resource. I got a pretty good idea and it's based on Overstreet - 4.0 VERY GOOD (VG): The average used comic book. Cover shows moderate to significant wear, and may be loose but not completely detached. Cover reflectivity is low. Can have moderate creases or dimples. Corners may be blunted. Store stamps, name stamps, arrival dates, initials, etc. have no effect on this grade. Some discoloration, fading, foxing, and even minor soiling is allowed. As much as a 1/4" triangle can be missing out of the corner or edge; a missing 1/8" square is also acceptable. Only minor unobtrusive tape and other amateur repair allowed on otherwise high grade copies. Moderate spine roll may be present and/or a 1" spine split. Staples may be discolored. Minor to moderate staple tears and stress lines may be present, as well as some rust migration. Paper is brown but not brittle. Minor to moderate interior tears may be present. Centerfold may be loose or detached at one staple. However, we all know that CGC isn't Overstreet and where the tape is located and what purpose it serves will in part determine a book's grade. Is it repairing a spine split or tear? Is it holding on a detached cover? It the tape on the centerfold? Has it been removed and only tape residue remains? I've seen books ranging from 4.5-8.5 depending on how these tape questions are answered by the flaws present. 4.5 is a prevalent CGC grade for books with tape though. But the question was "on an otherwise perfect comic." Let me do some digging and I'll get back to everyone. Funnybooks, Mojohand, zzutak and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funnybooks Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 On 7/10/2022 at 7:34 PM, grendelbo said: There's your answer....I'm going to suggest closing this thread now... "Otherwise, perfect!" Started by KirbyTown, 4 hours ago grendelbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyTown Posted July 11, 2022 Author Share Posted July 11, 2022 On 7/10/2022 at 4:05 PM, Midcall said: https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/3327/CGC-Modifies-Stance-on-Grading-Submissions-with-Tape/ Thank you, great! On 7/10/2022 at 5:26 PM, zzutak said: In 2010, I attempted to deconstruct or "reverse engineer" CGC's proprietary (and still unpublished) grading rubric. I think I got very close CGC’s grading and/or slab labeling standards have changed (and will no doubt continue to evolve) with time Fantastic work! Because I was searching for some kind of current consensus I did pass up that sticky because of the date being 2010, but thank you for telling me about it now, it is thorough and helpful. On 7/10/2022 at 6:34 PM, grendelbo said: However, we all know that CGC isn't Overstreet and where the tape is located and what purpose it serves will in part determine a book's grade. Is it repairing a spine split or tear? Is it holding on a detached cover? It the tape on the centerfold? Has it been removed and only tape residue remains? I've seen books ranging from 4.5-8.5 depending on how these tape questions are answered by the flaws present. 4.5 is a prevalent CGC grade for books with tape though. But the question was "on an otherwise perfect comic." Let me do some digging and I'll get back to everyone. Oh, no need to go all out, these answers have been satisfactory, thank you to everyone! grendelbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jharvey Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 (edited) I have a CGC 6.5 that has: Cover detached at one staple. It would have been 9.0 or higher otherwise. Edited July 15, 2022 by jharvey KirbyTown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Thomas Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 Mycomicshop won't give a grade above 4.0 for a single detached cover or centerfold staple on an otherwise "perfect" book. Don't think CGC or CBCS go to those extremes. I don't care for covers being loose at 1 staple, but the centerfold being that way doesn't bother me nearly as much. KirbyTown and grendelbo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PovertyRow Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 just adding this to the mix (get it - "Mix" - I slay me!) grendelbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumantorch Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 On 7/20/2022 at 3:03 PM, PovertyRow said: just adding this to the mix (get it - "Mix" - I slay me!) Cool cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PovertyRow Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 On 7/20/2022 at 2:06 PM, thehumantorch said: Cool cover Thanks. It put me in mind of PCH so I pulled the trigger under the influence of several rounds of rum and coke, which made me not notice the staples reference. You know that was some years ago since it pre-dates sake for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
