Will CGC regrade for free if it is suspected they failed to properly note the correct printing on the label? 0

[Mark Grosch]

Underground comic from the 60's was sent to auction as a First printing but the auction house is now claiming it's a second printing. From the historical research I've been able to pull together, the only way to test this is to check the interior pages as one page was changed from 1st to 2nd.  CGC did not label it as 2nd so I've assumed it was a 1st printing.  Why would they not indicate the printing either way just to provide clarity? It's not in the grader notes either.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/16/2022 at 11:36 PM, Mark Grosch said:

Why would they not indicate the printing either way just to provide clarity?

Probably because it's more common to not have multiple printings.

CGC won't re-grade it for free, that's for sure.

[KirbyTown]

On 8/16/2022 at 10:36 PM, Mark Grosch said:

Underground comic from the 60's was sent to auction as a First printing but the auction house is now claiming it's a second printing. From the historical research I've been able to pull together, the only way to test this is to check the interior pages as one page was changed from 1st to 2nd.  CGC did not label it as 2nd so I've assumed it was a 1st printing.  Why would they not indicate the printing either way just to provide clarity? It's not in the grader notes either.

Hi, I've found that those kind of differences aren't typically mentioned unless there's general knowledge of multiple printings and some accompanying economic significance.

Akira #1 highlights this: The 1st print has 1,135 copies on the census while the 2nd print has only 38 and a significant 9.8 price multiple.

[revat]

it doesn't hurt to contact cgc customer service yourself and ask.

Maybe you can make a deal with them.  If they were wrong its free regrade and reholder and shipping, if you were wrong, you pay double all the fees.

[jokiing]

On 8/16/2022 at 8:36 PM, Mark Grosch said:

Underground comic from the 60's was sent to auction as a First printing but the auction house is now claiming it's a second printing. From the historical research I've been able to pull together, the only way to test this is to check the interior pages as one page was changed from 1st to 2nd.  CGC did not label it as 2nd so I've assumed it was a 1st printing.  Why would they not indicate the printing either way just to provide clarity? It's not in the grader notes either.

If your research is accurate how would the auction house know what printing it it? Have they given you an explanation?

What is the comic book in question?

Edited August 17, 2022 by jokiing

[LowGradeBronze]

Hi, to be clear you are assuming it's a first print: You aren't 100 percent sure, is what I am understanding. Would a look at this comic on MyComicShop website help? Sometimes with undergrounds it's the cover price that indicates which print, other times as you say you need to check the inside front cover etc. 

Let us know which comic and how your research goes. 

[LowGradeBronze]

www.mycomicshop.com

[Mark Grosch]

The comic in question is Snatch #1.  The only comprehensive explanation of printing variations I could find is here: https://comixjoint.com/snatchcomics1-2nd.html

Given that the only way to tell for sure is apparently to see the interior, I'm assuming this was checked prior to slabbing, but obviously I don't know for sure.

On 8/17/2022 at 8:36 AM, jokiing said:

If your research is accurate how would the auction house know what printing it it? Have they given you an explanation?

What is the comic book in question?

 

[ExNihilo]

On 8/17/2022 at 4:20 PM, Mark Grosch said:

The comic in question is Snatch #1.  The only comprehensive explanation of printing variations I could find is here: https://comixjoint.com/snatchcomics1-2nd.html

Given that the only way to tell for sure is apparently to see the interior, I'm assuming this was checked prior to slabbing, but obviously I don't know for sure.

 

To the best of my knowledge, CGC has a limited window in which books can be sent back for any issues.  It would also need to be sent back by the original submitter.  Given the book was put to auction, I have to imagine that neither is valid in your case.  If you re-submitted the book, you would have to pay full grading fees.  I'm curious how the auction house is questioning it if the only way to know is by looking at the inside cover.

[jokiing]

On 8/16/2022 at 8:36 PM, Mark Grosch said:

 CGC did not label it as 2nd so I've assumed it was a 1st printing.  Why would they not indicate the printing either way just to provide clarity? It's not in the grader notes either.

Ebay lists a Snatch 1 CGC slab which is labeled 2nd print. CGC generally doesn't indicate a 1st print on their labels. Either way, auction house might be full of beans..... or maybe the grade for your copy is not listed on the CGC Census for 1st Printing.  What grade is your Snatch #1?

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by jokiing

[KirbyTown]

On 8/17/2022 at 6:20 PM, Mark Grosch said:

The comic in question is Snatch #1.

Snatch issues are a cluster, but they should list the reprint number if it wasn't the original.

What I'm confused about is what happened to the 10.

Do you know why this doesn't show on the census or on your site @valiantman? It's old school CGC, so I don't know if that matters:

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/0050668008/

[jokiing]

On 8/17/2022 at 7:11 PM, KirbyTown said:

 

What I'm confused about is what happened to the 10.

 

3rd Printing.

[LowGradeBronze]

This link helps clear up how to spot a first print: The double page splash across pages 10 & 11 for the S Clay Wilson story A Few Mates, that was reduced to a single page (p11) in second and later prints: (However, you'd need to see inside so how the auction house determined it was a second print is still a mystery.)

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/snatch-comics-scarce-first-print-165766651

Edited August 18, 2022 by LowGradeBronze

[Gaard]

The only reasonable explanation, that I can see, is if it was sent to the auction house raw and then they sent it in to be graded. That would've given them the opportunity to check the insides.

Unless there's a way to tell by looking at the cover, this is the only reasonable explanation.

[revat]

On 8/18/2022 at 1:51 AM, Gaard said:

The only reasonable explanation, that I can see, is if it was sent to the auction house raw and then they sent it in to be graded. That would've given them the opportunity to check the insides.

Unless there's a way to tell by looking at the cover, this is the only reasonable explanation.

In which case the auction house should have listed it on the form as second print.  Then if Cgc missed it on the slab, the auction house should have contacted Cgc right away and sent it back to be fixed.  
 

In this case, I’d ask for copies of the auction house’s original Cgc paperwork.

[valiantman]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:11 PM, KirbyTown said:

Snatch issues are a cluster, but they should list the reprint number if it wasn't the original.

What I'm confused about is what happened to the 10.

Do you know why this doesn't show on the census or on your site @valiantman? It's old school CGC, so I don't know if that matters:

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/0050668008/

The year of the comic is 1900 on the certlookup.  That's what CGC did (and still does) when they don't know the specific year a book was printed.

It's listed as a Third Printing (scroll down) on the CGC Census: https://www.cgccomics.com/census/grades_standard.asp?title=Snatch+Comics&issue=1&publisher=Apex+Novelties&year=1900&issuedate=No Date

[KirbyTown]

On 8/17/2022 at 10:37 PM, jokiing said:

3rd Printing.

On 8/18/2022 at 9:24 AM, valiantman said:

The year of the comic is 1900 on the certlookup.  That's what CGC did (and still does) when they don't know the specific year a book was printed.

It's listed as a Third Printing (scroll down) on the CGC Census: https://www.cgccomics.com/census/grades_standard.asp?title=Snatch+Comics&issue=1&publisher=Apex+Novelties&year=1900&issuedate=No Date

I may have been unclear when I said "should list the reprint number"; that was in reply to OP as to say that if the label doesn't show it as a reprint then it's probably a first.

I know that the 10 is a third, and I do see it now on the Census (thanks!), but when I pull up Snatch on cgcdata.com through a title search I'm not seeing a record. Perhaps it's there but not coming up in a search for the word? Maybe I'm blind?

edit: I was able to find a link to the entry, though the page won't pull up for me when I click. I found the link at the bottom of the list of "Oldest CGC 9.9 and CGC 10.0 Books in the CGC Census Data".

Let me know if you get a result when you click the entry, I just seem to time out. Maybe this has all just been a technical hiccup that has to with 1900 or similar, but thanks for your help and I apologize for the confusion.

http://cgcdata.com/cgc/cgc99/

Edited August 18, 2022 by KirbyTown

[valiantman]

@KirbyTown there's probably a bug in the CGCdata.com software related to books with 1900 as the year of publication. The book is never from 1900, so the software is sorting them at the end of the lists. It's better to list them last than first, since the book isn't older than the oldest actual comics (1930s). As a result, the book says "1900" but the software is "pretending" the book is from the year 2099 so that it will be listed last.

Here are all of the Snatch #1 comics... http://cgcdata.com/cgc/search/title/:Snatch:/desc/no/issue/1/comicyearstart/1960/label/all/orderby/year/variants/yes/

I don't know why it won't isolate that issue, but it's likely got something to do with the 1900 year (which is obviously false).

Edited August 18, 2022 by valiantman

[valiantman]

On 8/18/2022 at 5:42 PM, valiantman said:

@KirbyTown there's probably a bug in the CGCdata.com software related to books with 1900 as the year of publication. The book is never from 1900, so the software is sorting them at the end of the lists. It's better to list them last than first, since the book isn't older than the oldest actual comics (1930s). As a result, the book says "1900" but the software is "pretending" the book is from the year 2099 so that it will be listed last.

Here are all of the Snatch #1 comics... http://cgcdata.com/cgc/search/title/:Snatch:/desc/no/issue/1/comicyearstart/1960/label/all/orderby/year/variants/yes/

I don't know why it won't isolate that issue, but it's likely got something to do with the 1900 year (which is obviously false).

I found the bug, it should work now: http://www.cgcdata.com/cgc/search/comicid/22014/

[KirbyTown]

On 8/18/2022 at 5:42 PM, valiantman said:

@KirbyTown there's probably a bug in the CGCdata.com software related to books with 1900 as the year of publication. The book is never from 1900, so the software is sorting them at the end of the lists. It's better to list them last than first, since the book isn't older than the oldest actual comics (1930s). As a result, the book says "1900" but the software is "pretending" the book is from the year 2099 so that it will be listed last.

Here are all of the Snatch #1 comics... http://cgcdata.com/cgc/search/title/:Snatch:/desc/no/issue/1/comicyearstart/1960/label/all/orderby/year/variants/yes/

I don't know why it won't isolate that issue, but it's likely got something to do with the 1900 year (which is obviously false).

On 8/18/2022 at 7:04 PM, valiantman said:

I found the bug, it should work now: http://www.cgcdata.com/cgc/search/comicid/22014/

1900 was just a heck of a year.

Thanks for all you do! Sorry that I keep unintentionally bringing up stuff related to your software; it's an extremely helpful website and I have no complaints! 😀

Edited August 19, 2022 by KirbyTown