Barbara Gordon AFTER Crisis

[Kevin Boyd]

some kind of external cause for the darkening would work nicely....that way the same characters COULD suddenly become less dark plausibly. I dont buy them being "guilted" into becomeing "better heroes" by Superman or anyone else. Just doesnt work like that.

 

heres another question: The Earth 2 Superman is the GA Superman. And the current Superman began in Byrne's post Crisis mini-series. Right?

 

So where does the SA Superman exist? ALl those Weisinger stories in the 60s... Is all of that history/stories considered part of the same Earth 2 Superman? No, right,? because the SA JLA Superman was the Earth 1 version that had all thiose annual crossovers with Earth 2.

 

After 45 years of reading comics, Im still so confused!

 

This is headache territory. "Everything happened" in the multiverse before the Crisis on different earths. Then the surviving 5 worlds were merged together... sort of... and then when they went back to the dawn of time all five timelines became one single timeline - and according to E2 Superman in IC2 - that single timeline was grafted onto what was once known as Earth-1.

 

Earth-2 Superman's history is pretty much what was presented in the DC Comics published up until the time of the Silver Age. I know some people have picked the exact issue where the SA Superman stories began, but I don't know it off-hand. Based on the Archive selection point I would say that SA Superman officially starts in Superman 124 and Action 242 (June/July 1958). At that point the GA E2 Superman has a slightly different history than his SA counterpart. That guy doesn't really show up again until the JLA/JSA crossovers and All-Star 58.

 

I guess you could say that the SA E1 Superman's history ended with Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? But there's no place for that story to really fit, so it can only be considered a great Elseworlds story. (Except that in Superman/Batman's third major storyarc the Superman from the future returns to a reality that bears a striking resemblance to the one the E1 Superman was last seen in - living a life incognito, long after giving up being Superman. See, I told you this was headache territory.)

 

Anyway, all of that was erased in the new DCU - it happened, but didn't, which makes no sense and a lot of sense. The only people that remember the SA Superman now are the four survivors of the original multiverse (E2 Superman, E2 Lois, E3 Alex Luthor, EP Superboy).

 

The new timeline had one Superman (EPC Superman), and his history is the Byrne initiated post-Crisis history. The early parts of his history were detailed in Man of Steel - but when the regular Superman comics picked up the month afterwards Superman had supposedly been active for many years between MoS6 and Superman 1, etc. and during that "in-between time" (trying to think of a good term is difficult - "the post-Crisis revised Pre-Crisis time") he had fought in the revised Crisis - which Superman vaguely remembers as being a short fight with the Anti-Monitor and his shadow demons (sort of COIE 11&12). So, as detailed in various Superman comics over the years, various bits and pieces of the SA E1 Superman's history were sort of fit in to places of the EPC Superman's pre-revised-Crisis history where Superman intersected with other characters in the DCU who also had their histories revised. Such as the early Justice League of America appearances.

 

And in the new timeline, the EPC Superman and the Justice League had annual get-togethers with the retired JSA-ers. There was no "crossing of worlds". They just got together and had barbeques or teamed up to fight each others' villains. And in the new timeline Superman was never a member of the JSA, nor do the JSA remember the E2 Superman ever being a member.

 

Now excuse me I have to dunk my head in cold water.

[Aman619]

Kevin, I really appreciate the attempt--- But you lost me at hello!

 

You know, I dont really mind all the continuity crises I have to try to wrap my mind around.... but its frustrating when I cant place th epieces together...

[awe4one]

I really wish they leave Barbara Gordon alone. The Killing Joke, and Gordon's eventual fate, was a milestone moment for DC in my opinion. While I like the Batgirl persona, I'd much rather DC doesn't give her the ability to walk again. They've done wonders with the character post-shooting. Giving her the ability to continue in superhero mode is unnecessary and diminishes what occurred in Moore's story...

 

Jim

[shrunkenhead]

I really wish they leave Barbara Gordon alone. The Killing Joke, and Gordon's eventual fate, was a milestone moment for DC in my opinion. While I like the Batgirl persona, I'd much rather DC doesn't give her the ability to walk again. They've done wonders with the character post-shooting. Giving her the ability to continue in superhero mode is unnecessary and diminishes what occurred in Moore's story...

 

 

I totally agree, but I think the recent Batgirl: Year One mini did too well for DC to do the right thing and leave this story alone. Ah well...

[Kevin Boyd]

I'm not saying I'm for the return of Barbara Gordon as a costumed hero in the DCU, but we've seen far more of the image of Babs as Batgirl since she was crippled than we ever did before the Killing Joke made her wheelchair-bound. She was very prominant in the Batman cartoon show and related merchandising, and DC has made a fair amount of coin selling posters, prints and toys with her image as well... not to mention mini-series, one-shots, crossovers (Zero Hour), elseworlds, flashback issues, etc.

 

When people think of Batgirl they don't think of the current full-masked black vinyl Batgirl, they think of the traditional image of the Barbara Gordon Batgirl with a cowl and red hair.

 

For the powers that be that seems to be a logical choice - 15 years of Barbara Gordon in a wheelchair is enough. And we know a Barbara Gordon as Batgirl/woman series will sell well initially - look at Loeb and Churchill's Supergirl orders and that should be enough to tell you that there's renewed interest in these characters in their more traditional aspects (Kara the Supergirl from Krypton instead of a shape-changing protoplasm from another dimension, and Barbara Gordon as Batgirl instead of some unrelated girl in black vinyl).

[uclapeterg]

What will happen to Birds of Prey?

[Kevin Boyd]

A completely new team.

[shrunkenhead]

I'm not saying I'm for the return of Barbara Gordon as a costumed hero in the DCU, but we've seen far more of the image of Babs as Batgirl since she was crippled than we ever did before the Killing Joke made her wheelchair-bound.

 

That's true, but as far as readers are concerned, I think that's because putting Batgirl in a wheelchair made flashbacks more interesting. It gave the stories a sense of tragedy, pathos, etc. Not that I am a Star Wars fan by any stretch, but it's like watching young Annakin (sp?) zip around the galaxy as a happy-go-lucky kid, knowing what's in store for him at the end of the journey. Take her out of the chair, and the character becomes just another gal in tights, like we don't have enough of them already.

 

Story-wise, it's a huge mistake, I feel. Sales-wise, bringing batgirl back is very smart. So I guess the question is, which one will win? Hmmm...

[Aman619]

yeah. Much as Id like to see poor Babs be Batgirl again, after a year or so odds are her title will be on life support. So DC willl have cashed in for awhile, but b eleft with another floating character who USED to have her own book, an dunless they replace Oracle, minus a pretty good character, and maybe team, in Birds of Prey.

 

But Id bet on DC taking the short route to bigger sales. Wouldnt you???

[Pirate]

byrne would make me not buy it, he used to be so good and now i can't look at it