Barbara Gordon AFTER Crisis

[Aman619]

So, Im thinking about how DC is working thru Crisis to stem the darkening of their Universe. Frankly, I think thats a clever storyline gimmick. because comics have evolved darker in the last 20 years. So to devise a crossover story/plot that acknowledges that, AND integrates it into the fictional continuity is actually rather brilliant in concept!

 

But, inasmuch as the REAL reason comics have darkened is due to changes in the real world we live in, and our evolving (and less naive or childish) tastes in fiction and adventure characters that have spread to the formerly child-friendly medium of Comics.... well, I hope DC isnt SERIOUSLY going to create a NICER, cleaner mor innocent do-gooder universe in its place...

 

we shall see.

 

So back to Babs, was (is) KILLING JOKE after Crisis, or before??? Will Babs reappear in 52 as Batgirl? Anyone have an idea? That would be interesting. Oracle has been a great addition to the DC Universe, but ANYONE can be computer savvy and do that job...

 

Another thing. In the early 60s, in Flash 123, DC opened the door to incorporating their past. This led to the JLA crossovers, which in short time became an annually scheduled event. And these crossovers led to the discovery of (or the write's reliance on) MANY similat plots about other Earths "out there". And 20 years later, this Other Earth concept led to Crisis which sought to clean up the universe of the proliferating Earths.

 

My point is tis, telescoping DC continuity now looking back at 60 years of stories, we are NOW in our 2nd CRISIS Cleanup stage! Which clearly sets the stage for MORE Cleanups to come.

 

So maybe we can do a poll as to WHEN we think the next Big DC Cleanup will be (Even though this on ehas only just begun, I know...) ? My sense is they will come quicker and quicker now that the precedent for a "series" of them has been established.....

[rob_react]

So back to Babs, was (is) KILLING JOKE after Crisis, or before???

 

After, hence her presence, in continuity, in the chair.

[Aman619]

so maybe her Batboots will be a'walkin' agin???

[Kevin Boyd]

The rumor is that over the course of the year (52), the treatments that Babs is going to receive in Israel (mentioned briefly as an option in the last Birds of Prey) will be successful and she will emerge as the new Batwoman - star of the title of the same name. Another rumor circulating is that the current creative team from Action Comics (Simone/Byrne/Nelson) will be doing that book.

[Aman619]

so, all memories arent going to wiped clean? And a whole new continuity begins?

[Kevin Boyd]

so, all memories arent going to wiped clean? And a whole new continuity begins?

 

Why do you think that memories are going to be wiped clean at all? Or that there will be a new continuity?

[Timulty]

From what I read. The whole point of this Crisis is bring what DC liked about the Silver Age to table. What that is remains to be seen. I hipe they do brink out Batwoman. Her character sucked but I really dug the costume. A well written and characterized counter part to Bats, is the kinda of female character they need in comics. Of course, if she looks good in tight.......

[uclapeterg]

The rumor is that over the course of the year (52), the treatments that Babs is going to receive in Israel (mentioned briefly as an option in the last Birds of Prey) will be successful and she will emerge as the new Batwoman - star of the title of the same name. Another rumor circulating is that the current creative team from Action Comics (Simone/Byrne/Nelson) will be doing that book.

 

Oh gawd, another book I have to buy?

[jonjesper]

I asked Dan Didio on Newsarama:

Any plans for Barbara Gordon post IC?

 

He answered my other questions, but skipped this one

 

Someone else asked about Batgirl post IC and he responded 'No Comment'

[Timulty]

I asked Dan Didio on Newsarama:

Any plans for Barbara Gordon post IC?

 

He answered my other questions, but skipped this one

 

Someone else asked about Batgirl post IC and he responded 'No Comment'

 

Well, that appears to damning evidence of something going on, isn't it?

[Kevin Boyd]

I really dug the costume.

 

If Barbara Gordon does return to action as Batwoman, I would expect that she will be wearing her traditional duds, not the red and yellow Kathy Kane Batwoman outfit.

[Timulty]

I really dug the costume.

 

If Barbara Gordon does return to action as Batwoman, I would expect that she will be wearing her traditional duds, not the red and yellow Kathy Kane Batwoman outfit.

 

They could pull an update to it. That would be interesting. I would think that there would have to be a difference in costume between Bat-Girl and Bat-Woman.

[Kevin Boyd]

I think the main reason to bring her back is to have that traditional and unforgettable image of Batgirl that everyone remembers active in the DCU again, and Babs has evolved from being a girl to a woman.

[Timulty]

True but I believe that Bat-Woman has been missing for far too long as well. Seem like a Kill 2 Birds With One Stone, type of thing.

[Kevin Boyd]

Sure, I guess.

[Aman619]

so, all memories arent going to wiped clean? And a whole new continuity begins?

 

Why do you think that memories are going to be wiped clean at all? Or that there will be a new continuity?

 

I thought that was the plan... like last time.

Hard to have a new start with new characters and reboots if they all remember tha last ime. Not undoable, but if they change character (less dark) are the same characters changing? And will they KNOW they changed?

[Kevin Boyd]

I thought that was the plan... like last time.

Hard to have a new start with new characters and reboots if they all remember tha last ime. Not undoable, but if they change character (less dark) are the same characters changing? And will they KNOW they changed?

 

Again, who says the characters are being rebooted or restarted? Sure, that was sort of the intent of the original Crisis - and this new Crisis seems to be that someone wants to undo that work and restore some of what was lost. But let's not get the cart ahead of the horse. Revamps and mindwiping implies that someone will be successful in changing time and space and all of that stuff.

 

DC has announced a ONE YEAR LATER break will occur between IC and the relaunched DCU.... not that they are rebooting the DCU from scratch. One year later means one year later from now... not one year later from scratch. 52 bridges that gap.

 

And characters can be made less dark and heroic without mindwipes and going back to the dawn of time. All it takes is someone to suggest that the line in the sand has to be moved back and that the heroes have to struggle to live up to heroic ideal embodied in characters like Superman. Superman himself admits in IC2 that he hasn't been inspiring - maybe it's time for him to live up to his potential and lead - or shrink away and hide as he did in Kingdom Come. I suspect he will do the former - especially with the Earth-2 Superman around. I can see them coming to odds with one another pretty quickly based on E-2 Superman's announcement at the end of IC2.

 

Since Johns is involved, it might be plausible to think that he has found the DCU's equivalent to the "Parallax/yellow impurity" excuse. Something external that has caused Earth-PC to be corrupted. Perhaps it was the influence of the shattered Anti-Monitor's will...? Nevertheless, making it something specific means that it can be excised and defeated without starting over again.

[Mister_Comics]

Barbara will change her name to Kathy Kane, wear a yellow and red costume, and be called BATWOMAN.

 

Just kidding!

 

But the more I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happens.

[shrunkenhead]

 

But, inasmuch as the REAL reason comics have darkened is due to changes in the real world we live in, and our evolving (and less naive or childish) tastes in fiction and adventure characters that have spread to the formerly child-friendly medium of Comics.... well, I hope DC isnt SERIOUSLY going to create a NICER, cleaner mor innocent do-gooder universe in its place...

 

 

I can't see that happening at all. DC has put so much effort into writing carefully crafted, morally complex stories of late. They may switch up their continuity somewhat, but there's no way they're going to tell their writers to revert back to the "bang! pow!" days of comicdom. Much to Ian Levine's eternal dismay, no doubt...

[Aman619]

I thought that was the plan... like last time.

Hard to have a new start with new characters and reboots if they all remember tha last ime. Not undoable, but if they change character (less dark) are the same characters changing? And will they KNOW they changed?

 

Again, who says the characters are being rebooted or restarted? Sure, that was sort of the intent of the original Crisis - and this new Crisis seems to be that someone wants to undo that work and restore some of what was lost. But let's not get the cart ahead of the horse. Revamps and mindwiping implies that someone will be successful in changing time and space and all of that stuff.

 

DC has announced a ONE YEAR LATER break will occur between IC and the relaunched DCU.... not that they are rebooting the DCU from scratch. One year later means one year later from now... not one year later from scratch. 52 bridges that gap.

 

And characters can be made less dark and heroic without mindwipes and going back to the dawn of time. All it takes is someone to suggest that the line in the sand has to be moved back and that the heroes have to struggle to live up to heroic ideal embodied in characters like Superman. Superman himself admits in IC2 that he hasn't been inspiring - maybe it's time for him to live up to his potential and lead - or shrink away and hide as he did in Kingdom Come. I suspect he will do the former - especially with the Earth-2 Superman around. I can see them coming to odds with one another pretty quickly based on E-2 Superman's announcement at the end of IC2.

 

Since Johns is involved, it might be plausible to think that he has found the DCU's equivalent to the "Parallax/yellow impurity" excuse. Something external that has caused Earth-PC to be corrupted. Perhaps it was the influence of the shattered Anti-Monitor's will...? Nevertheless, making it something specific means that it can be excised and defeated without starting over again.

 

some kind of external cause for the darkening would work nicely....that way the same characters COULD suddenly become less dark plausibly. I dont buy them being "guilted" into becomeing "better heroes" by Superman or anyone else. Just doesnt work like that.

 

heres another question: The Earth 2 Superman is the GA Superman. And the current Superman began in Byrne's post Crisis mini-series. Right?

 

So where does the SA Superman exist? ALl those Weisinger stories in the 60s... Is all of that history/stories considered part of the same Earth 2 Superman? No, right,? because the SA JLA Superman was the Earth 1 version that had all thiose annual crossovers with Earth 2.

 

After 45 years of reading comics, Im still so confused!