The official CGC guide to Grading comics question 9.9 0

[dm3]

hi all

I just received my copy and I like the book but have a very basic question.

Like many here, I was interested in learning about the differences between a 9.8, 9.9 and 10.0 relative to CGC grading standards (not overstreet, etc....)

In the area of spine stress, on page 274 it  states that a 9.9 can have one small non-color breaking bend (not crease) in the cover, as well as one non-color breaking spine stress line

This was surprising news to me in terms of CGC grading standards (not overstreet, etc.)

On page 228 on the topic of stress lines it states that a 9.9 can exhibit only a couple of tiny non-color breaking stress lines (and I assume these can only be seen under a high glare raking light, and they mention this. I always use a raking light.)

On the same page it states that a 9.8 can have one or two (it is inferred they are tiny) stress lines that break color.  I have seen many 9.6s that have this.

My question pertains to the 9.9s and 10.0s:

We have all had comics that even under a raking light show no stress lines at all along the spine (and no apparent other defects as well) that get a 9.8 and it is often a mystery which defect(s) knock it down from the  9.9 (or even 10.0) grades.

Does anyone have any comments on this ? I would think that many of my comics as well as others on this forum would be getting at least some 9.9s given the looser than expected grading standards above.

Is it because the modern comics are held to a much higher standard (and if so why not state that)?

Also the same page 228 mentions that these non-color breaking tiny stress lines can be pressed out (which they can), which makes the lack of 9.9s and 10.0s even harder to understand.  Most of us get these pressed out.

 

There is one GA 10.0 comic out there. There is a thread on that comic below.

It is an interesting 2018 thread in which the same question is posed

"Has CGC ever given a useful explanation of what qualifies a 10.0 above a 9.9 or quite frankly why either is better than 9.8?"

It is also interesting that there are 19 9.9s from GA (and perhaps a few more since 2018).

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

The way I understood it, the centering and other manufacturing factors have to be aligned perfectly for above 9.8.

That's afaik

[dm3]

On 10/24/2022 at 11:16 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

The way I understood it, the centering and other manufacturing factors have to be aligned perfectly for above 9.8.

That's afaik

Thanks for your reply.

Ok. That is what I thought. They do mention the cover centering ("The cover must still [as a 10.0] be perfectly cut and well centered....")

In the cover shot examples of 9.9 vs. 9.8 I see a difference but I am not sure if one is worse than the other.

The 9.9: There is much less space between the upper edge and the Marvel Comics Group yellow banner on the top, when comparing to the 9.8.  But ironically the 9.9 Marvel Comics Group banner looks a bit crooked relative to the top edge (less space on right edge vs. left edge) and I would say this is less well centered than the 9.8 example

The 9.9s 25c price is a bit too far into the spine area and the 9.8 actually looks better.

The problems with the 9.9 are listed as "very slight wear top and bottom and one small color breaking stress line mid spine"  Since it has a color breaker that should have excluded this from 9.9 but I assume since there were no other bends or stress lines, they substituted the single color breaker for that.

The problems with the 9.8 are "two very small color breaking stress lines. Very slight wear beginning to show at corner tips."  So the two stress lines threw this copy out of 9.9 which I can understand.

The 10.0 criteria does mention that printing defects will exclude a comic from this grade, so I can understand the lack of 10.0s.

I do think the centering issue on the 9.9 is quite obvious and should have knocked that copy down to 9.8 according to these grading standards.  It is not "perfectly cut" IMHO

The example copy is Incredible Hulk 181.  As you know there a no 10.0s and only 1 9.9 in the census.  (the 10.0 that they picture I assume is photoshopped and it does look perfect)

I suppose this is all a moot point because at these grades things are so subjective....

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by dm3
clarified one of the sentences

[jjfversion1]

9.9's and 10.0's are like winning the lottery. Sometimes you get lucky.

[dm3]

Edited October 24, 2022 by dm3

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 10/24/2022 at 2:21 PM, dm3 said:

I kept looking for a reason that books like "Last Ronin #1" kept up with more 9.9 +

I know it has something to do with the "cover stock", and maybe the edges just present better? I can't say for certain that they just "kept their dimensions" better "after being cut?" idk

It may be crisper or clearer, and I know dimensions matter. I still got 9.8 on all 3 copies that I submitted  I can't catch a break or I've yet to hit above 9.8  on anything!

Edited October 24, 2022 by ADAMANTIUM

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 10/24/2022 at 3:14 PM, jjfversion1 said:

9.9's and 10.0's are like winning the lottery. Sometimes you get lucky.

Basically this.  It doesn’t matter if your book fits the 9.9 criteria.  What matters is whether or not CGC wants to hand out an additional 9.9

[dm3]

On 10/24/2022 at 12:28 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I kept looking for a reason that books like "Last Ronin #1" kept up with more 9.9 +

I know it has something to do with the "cover stock", and maybe the edges just present better? I can't say for certain that they just "kept their dimensions" better "after being cut?" idk

It may be crisper or clearer, and I know dimensions matter. I still got 9.8 on all 3 copies that I submitted  I can't catch a break or I've yet to hit above 9.8  on anything!

The CGC book does state this which fits into your analysis:)

 

"....The print run for this issue [ASM #300] was much higher than Walking Dead #1, of which only 7,000 copies were printed nearly 15 years later.  But because of its thicker cover, high quality printing and newer age, 21 copies have been given 9.9 out of over 3,000 submitted [This compared to ASM with only 10 9.9s out of 20,000 submitted]"

They also mention Batman:Damned #1 in 2018, squarebound, that has over 600 9.9s out of a total of 3,000.  So ratio of 1:5.  

I first noticed this with the Batman Killing Joke squarebound. The squarebounds are always clean and I assume just need to be centered well to get a 9.9

So you are on target, and it is a mystery why you did not get any 9.9s assuming the books are otherwise clean.....

[dm3]

On 10/24/2022 at 12:32 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Basically this.  It doesn’t matter if your book fits the 9.9 criteria.  What matters is whether or not CGC wants to hand out an additional 9.9

[Kevin76]

On 10/24/2022 at 3:43 PM, dm3 said:

The CGC book does state this which fits into your analysis:)

 

"....The print run for this issue [ASM #300] was much higher than Walking Dead #1, of which only 7,000 copies were printed nearly 15 years later.  But because of its thicker cover, high quality printing and newer age, 21 copies have been given 9.9 out of over 3,000 submitted [This compared to ASM with only 10 9.9s out of 20,000 submitted]"

They also mention Batman:Damned #1 in 2018, squarebound, that has over 600 9.9s out of a total of 3,000.  So ratio of 1:5.  

I first noticed this with the Batman Killing Joke squarebound. The squarebounds are always clean and I assume just need to be centered well to get a 9.9

So you are on target, and it is a mystery why you did not get any 9.9s assuming the books are otherwise clean.....

The Killing Joke book is prone to scratches, keeping many of them out of the 9.9/10 grade

[rjpb]

Edited October 24, 2022 by rjpb

[dm3]

On 10/24/2022 at 1:12 PM, Kevin76 said:

The Killing Joke book is prone to scratches, keeping many of them out of the 9.9/10 grade

Great Point. I need to get mine out of the box and take a look. I remember it being very clean but don't remember if it was scratched. 

[Kevin76]

On 10/24/2022 at 4:22 PM, dm3 said:

Great Point. I need to get mine out of the box and take a look. I remember it being very clean but don't remember if it was scratched. 

Look at the back cover under a light, also check all the corners....See any white at all??  Can't get a 9.9/10 if there is any white showing

[dm3]

Yes a few. But worse there is a 1/3" scratch on the front cover.  I would be lucky to get a 9.8 on this.    No chance a 9.9.

[JollyComics]

Those graders are accustomed to 9.6 and if you are not happy with that grade. They are expecting you to send it back for the regrading. That’s how they do. The grading guide is not applied to them. It’s irrelevant.

[dm3]

I see the actual 9.9 has an old label on it and it was sold in 2011 for 150k.  That is over 10 years ago and perhaps the comic would be graded a bit differently now.  I don't know if that book with a color breaking spine tick (stress line at mid-spine)  and slight wear on top and bottom spine corners would get a 9.9.  As the other comment stated it would be a coin toss depending on the grader, etc.....

 

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/2049/

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by dm3

[Tnexus]

I basically assume if you send 100 definite 9.8 copies of a single issue for grading, they'll gift you a 9.9 or two. This is why you'll see store exclusive sellers like JSC get 9.9 copies, but not your average pleeb. If they actually followed the rules, we'd be seeing a lot more 9.9s and 10s. I'm sure the internal rule is too many dilutes the brand.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Tnexus

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 10/24/2022 at 8:39 PM, Tnexus said:

I basically assume if you send 100 definite 9.8 copies of a single issue for grading, they'll gift you a 9.9 or two. This is why you'll see store exclusive sellers like JSC get 9.9 copies, but not your average pleeb. If they actually followed the rules, we'd be seeing a lot more 9.9s and 10s. Too many dilute the brand so to speak.

I've thought that too. Imo, I gave the benefit of the doubt in a the way of so many copies to compare too, but the same principle

These look better than the other 100, so a 9.9!

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by ADAMANTIUM

[dm3]

"I basically assume if you send 100 definite 9.8 copies of a single issue for grading, they'll gift you a 9.9 or two. This is why you'll see store exclusive sellers like JSC get 9.9 copies, but not your average pleeb. If they actually followed the rules, we'd be seeing a lot more 9.9s and 10s. Too many dilute the brand so to speak."

 

 

Now this makes sense ;)     Too bad.  As a part time seller it would be nice to be able to sell raw copies that are actually 9.9s by the rules, but one can't do that because we know they won't get the 9.9.  And a seller that states that they are 9.9s, even if telling the truth, is not selling what the buyer will get, if that makes sense  .....  Making sense out of nonsense?

Edited October 25, 2022 by dm3

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 10/24/2022 at 9:05 PM, dm3 said:

"I basically assume if you send 100 definite 9.8 copies of a single issue for grading, they'll gift you a 9.9 or two. This is why you'll see store exclusive sellers like JSC get 9.9 copies, but not your average pleeb. If they actually followed the rules, we'd be seeing a lot more 9.9s and 10s. Too many dilute the brand so to speak."

 

 

Now this makes sense ;)     Too bad.  As a part time seller it would be nice to be able to sell raw copies that are actually 9.9s by the rules, but one can't do that because we know they won't get the 9.9.  And a seller that states that they are 9.9s, even if telling the truth, is not selling what the buyer will get, if that makes sense  .....  Making sense out of nonsense?

It makes sense enough, no guts no glory kind of deal. Those sellers, with the true nature of probability, are more misleading, imo, than strengthening relationships. I'd skip those all together, it's not like you're getting a refund plus the cost of grading if they come back 9.8

Edited October 25, 2022 by ADAMANTIUM