Low/Mid Grade Major Keys or High Grade Minor Keys? 1 1

[Professor K]

Hi Everyone, A little thing I've been pondering for a while is, well basically what I wrote in the title. Basically a "What do you like better" thread.

Regarding mainly "major" Silver Age keys in low to mid grade (say 1.0 to 4.0 or 5.0 in some cases) as opposed to"minor" keys of the same main character in high grade (say 8.0 to 9.2 as higher than that they skyrocket in price). Doesn't have to be that specific but in the same price ranges.

Golden Age and Bronze Age opinions/examples are fine too , but with Bronze 9.4 to 9.8 would apply for high grade depending on the book.

So for example take Fantasic Four #1. A decent looking 2.0 to 3.0 can be procured for around 14,000 to 20,00 around now. But how about an 8.0 to 9.4 FF # 2,3,6,12 ect. for about the same price instead? Amazing Spider-Man: A very low grade AF 15 can be had for under 20K usually. A 3.0 to 4.0 ASM #1 can be rustled in for 10 to 15K. But how about an 8.0 or higher ASM 2, 3, 4, or any of the 1st early villain appearances instead? 

There are many more examples but hopefully you get what I mean. I realize every book has a different significance and in some cases the 1st app is the only real key issue. Any thoughts are welcome. Consider if these high grade minor keys which have low pop numbers in the census will "catch up" to the big keys that most of which have hundreds or more copies out there in low grade. Plus personal preferance. Would you rather have a kind of beat up copy of that 1st appearance or a sweet, nearly flawless (or flawless) copy of an early appearance which in the current market are in the about same price range? Also the hunt. Big keys in low grade are not too hard to come by as opposed to that high grade beauty you've been waiting for.

Just wondering. Thanks

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Professor K

[thehumantorch]

A very personal decision.  I prefer the first appearance of an important character over a minor key.  Grade isn’t a big deal to me.  I have been transitioning to GA for many years so keys have been replaced by rare and classic GA

[KirbyJack]

I would go low grade biggie. Then when you buy a low grade minor key, they match!

[Professor K]

On 11/5/2022 at 4:51 PM, thehumantorch said:

A very personal decision.  I prefer the first appearance of an important character over a minor key.  Grade isn’t a big deal to me.  I have been transitioning to GA for many years so keys have been replaced by rare and classic GA

Yes you're right it is very personal. Not in a private way of course. But yeah. Funny you mention GA because I suppose that's what got me thinking about this. I watched those yootoob videos a few times, the Future Past Vintage Collectables channel. I'm not even sure the name of the man who hosts it but he makes some good shows. I watched the videos with Mr Bedrock and those high grade GA's he brought on. They just look so beautiful in those conditions. Many aren't even "keys" and most aren't 1st apps but man are they pleasant to look at. There are enough out there for most to get one in lower grades if they really want. But when you get to that high grade stuff you don't just need money but luck and serious patience. But mostly money 

I know you can't really compare most of those with anything Silver Age. Most GA's only have less than 100. or even much less. in the census and maybe just a handful in very high grade. But it got me thinking about some of the early 60's Marvel's. Most have at least a thousand and much more in the census but when you get to around the top 5% there aren't many.  I wonder if as time goes by people will desire to own them more and more, as opposed to the 1st apps in low grade.  For example a 9.4 ASM #2 as opposed to a 3.5 or 4.0 AF 15. About the same price but one has about 7 in the census and the other a few hundred. And the high grade one is just soo sweet to look at. 

I guess I could have titled this "The Future of Really High Grade Silver Age Stuff".

On 11/5/2022 at 7:06 PM, KirbyJack said:

I would go low grade biggie. Then when you buy a low grade minor key, they match!

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Professor K
spelling correction

[alexgross.com]

i personally find almost all 2.0 copies and lower to be appalingly ugly, no offense to those who own them. there's usually tape, discoloration, major tears, etc. it's really 3.0 where some books start to look decent. so, for me, if i had to choose between an asm1 in 2.0 or an asm3 in 7.0 or 7.5 it's no contest. i'd go with the first doc ock, or sandman, or vulture, etc in fine or very fine condition. 

[MattTheDuck]

After coming back to collecting 2-ish years ago, I've been almost (but not quite) exclusively buying 8.5 (VF+) or above books, key or not.  Most of the Silver Age books I picked up in the early/mid 70s have problems of various kinds (mostly typical "this was read/loved") and I may not have anything that would grade above 5.0.  I don't have any tape, but I have plenty of CB creasing, spine ticks, small tears, coupon cuts and so on.  I don't need any more of that and sure don't want to pay a lot for it.  It's one thing to pay $1.20 for a VG+ FF #50, it's another to pay $400 for one.

Now, I also agree regarding price - most of what I "need" is the first 20 issues of the main titles I collect and we're talking about real money there, so I have picked up some of these high-end books in somewhat lower grade.  The fact that most of what I'm buying is raw helps on this as well.

[LDarkseid1]

Or to take it a step further, super super high grade CGC 12.0 drek non keys?

Edited November 6, 2022 by LDarkseid1

[Aman619]

if starting buying today, you'd have to factor in the past 2 years.   What was most surprising to me what not ten big sunup in 9.8s etc but prices 2.0s the 6.0s were selling for. Having been around a while, many of us count wipe our noses with 3.0 keys...but with so many buyers today, and priced out of HG, these copies have skyrocketed.  But that was yesterday. Now the questions is their future all used up already? will they regain those high levels?  Or will many of the covid era buyers not buy back in again, or will the over saturation of the MCU in popular culture ebb.  If that shift happens, the scarcer and higher grade issues may be a safer bet.  A reversion to the old days: fewer well-heeled buyers seeking quality.  But, Maybe Im just stating the same old pessimism we always get around here, right?

[Sauce Dog]

On 11/5/2022 at 8:32 PM, alexgross.com said:

i personally find almost all 2.0 copies and lower to be appalingly ugly, no offense to those who own them. there's usually tape, discoloration, major tears, etc. it's really 3.0 where some books start to look decent. so, for me, if i had to choose between an asm1 in 2.0 or an asm3 in 7.0 or 7.5 it's no contest. i'd go with the first doc ock, or sandman, or vulture, etc in fine or very fine condition. 

The trick is to nab all those 2.0 books that only graded that way due to a detached cover. My favourite grade/defect combo to buy

[KCOComics]

I'm a low grade mega key guy, personally. Though I often drool when I see some of the high grade collectors on here post pictures. 

When I was a growing up, my brother and I would diligently study the Wizard price guides. Long before we ever saw a copy of ASM1 or X-Men 1, we were discussing it and they seemed like a distant dream....so just owning those types of books, even in low grade was really important to me. 

[Professor K]

On 11/6/2022 at 8:38 PM, Aman619 said:

if starting buying today, you'd have to factor in the past 2 years.   What was most surprising to me what not ten big sunup in 9.8s etc but prices 2.0s the 6.0s were selling for. Having been around a while, many of us count wipe our noses with 3.0 keys...but with so many buyers today, and priced out of HG, these copies have skyrocketed.  But that was yesterday. Now the questions is their future all used up already? will they regain those high levels?  Or will many of the covid era buyers not buy back in again, or will the over saturation of the MCU in popular culture ebb.  If that shift happens, the scarcer and higher grade issues may be a safer bet.  A reversion to the old days: fewer well-heeled buyers seeking quality.  But, Maybe Im just stating the same old pessimism we always get around here, right?

Yes! That is pretty much what I was wondering I suppose. Well explained. I like how you gave two possibilities as to what may be. 

On 11/6/2022 at 11:51 PM, KCOComics said:

I'm a low grade mega key guy, personally. Though I often drool when I see some of the high grade collectors on here post pictures. 

When I was a growing up, my brother and I would diligently study the Wizard price guides. Long before we ever saw a copy of ASM1 or X-Men 1, we were discussing it and they seemed like a distant dream....so just owning those types of books, even in low grade was really important to me. 

Hey KC, I know what you mean. I remember thinking I'll never be able to own books like Silver Silver 1, Hulk 1, Iron Man 1, ect. And that was before CGC and e bay and when they were so much less $.

I'm a little bit of both I think. Hulk #1 for example is by far the coolest most awesome'est cover in the series. But I really can't spend the kind of money a 4.0 or better goes for on one. (Also I don't really want anything worth more than around 15 - 20K, too many eggs in one basket for me). With Hulk 1 the right 2.0 or 3.0 is very welcome. 

But with Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, (and some DC's),  there are so many great looking covers and important issues in their early days. I think I'd rather go with sweet under 10% of the pop high grade copies of some early "minor" keys over a beat up looking AF 15 or a so so ASM 1. 

[KCOComics]

On 11/7/2022 at 3:57 PM, Professor K said:

Yes! That is pretty much what I was wondering I suppose. Well explained. I like how you gave two possibilities as to what may be. 

Hey KC, I know what you mean. I remember thinking I'll never be able to own books like Silver Silver 1, Hulk 1, Iron Man 1, ect. And that was before CGC and e bay and when they were so much less $.

I'm a little bit of both I think. Hulk #1 for example is by far the coolest most awesome'est cover in the series. But I really can't spend the kind of money a 4.0 or better goes for on one. (Also I don't really want anything worth more than around 15 - 20K, too many eggs in one basket for me). With Hulk 1 the right 2.0 or 3.0 is very welcome. 

But with Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, (and some DC's),  there are so many great looking covers and important issues in their early days. I think I'd rather go with sweet under 10% of the pop high grade copies of some early "minor" keys over a beat up looking AF 15 or a so so ASM 1. 

You and I might be competing for the Hulk 1 in 2.0 to 3.0. I agree,  it is the coolest cover of the SA in my humble opinion.  

I think i could come around on spiderman 1 vs some of the other Spiderman titles.  I've never prioritized Spiderman 1 because it wasn't his first appearance and it was a pricey book. So if I was going to spend 5 figures on a Spidey book,  it was going to be AF15. 

Now,  given the choice between Spiderman 1 in low grade or Spidey 14 in high grade, I might pick the 14. It would be really cool to own that book in a 8.0+  

I would still take the ratty AF15 over any other spidey title for the same $$ (which is why I own a 0.5 copy today lol) 

[KCOComics]

On 11/7/2022 at 3:57 PM, Professor K said:

Yes! That is pretty much what I was wondering I suppose. Well explained. I like how you gave two possibilities as to what may be. 

Hey KC, I know what you mean. I remember thinking I'll never be able to own books like Silver Silver 1, Hulk 1, Iron Man 1, ect. And that was before CGC and e bay and when they were so much less $.

I'm a little bit of both I think. Hulk #1 for example is by far the coolest most awesome'est cover in the series. But I really can't spend the kind of money a 4.0 or better goes for on one. (Also I don't really want anything worth more than around 15 - 20K, too many eggs in one basket for me). With Hulk 1 the right 2.0 or 3.0 is very welcome. 

But with Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, (and some DC's),  there are so many great looking covers and important issues in their early days. I think I'd rather go with sweet under 10% of the pop high grade copies of some early "minor" keys over a beat up looking AF 15 or a so so ASM 1. 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by KCOComics
Duplicate message

[Professor K]

On 11/7/2022 at 4:44 PM, KCOComics said:

You and I might be competing for the Hulk 1 in 2.0 to 3.0. I agree,  it is the coolest cover of the SA in my humble opinion.  

I think i could come around on spiderman 1 vs some of the other Spiderman titles.  I've never prioritized Spiderman 1 because it wasn't his first appearance and it was a pricey book. So if I was going to spend 5 figures on a Spidey book,  it was going to be AF15. 

Now,  given the choice between Spiderman 1 in low grade or Spidey 14 in high grade, I might pick the 14. It would be really cool to own that book in a 8.0+  

I would still take the ratty AF15 over any other spidey title for the same $$ (which is why I own a 0.5 copy today lol) 

We're on the same page on all that. I'm selling a .5 AF 15 on CL now, as you know. Sold an asm #2 5.5 and got a good price, even higher than the 6.0 HA just sold. And I'm selling a asm #3 6.5 in the next CL auction. My plan is/was to get a 2.0 AF 15 with the proceeds but the recent 24k HA sale looks like It ain't slowing down any. I might go with an 8.0/8.5 asm 3 and 14 instead. To me those two are the best issues in the series.  I'm also not a big fan of asm #1. After that it's Hulk #1 time, I'll let you know if I'm bidding on one so we don't destroy each other and I'll bow out.

[alexgross.com]

On 11/7/2022 at 1:44 PM, KCOComics said:

Now,  given the choice between Spiderman 1 in low grade or Spidey 14 in high grade, I might pick the 14. It would be really cool to own that book in a 8.0+  

 

i couldn't agree more. i still don't have an asm1, but i have this:

[Professor K]

On 11/7/2022 at 11:08 PM, alexgross.com said:

i couldn't agree more. i still don't have an asm1, but i have this:

Yeah look at that......Sweet. And that's an exceptionally nice 8.0. 

[Beardown]

"Low grade is better than NO grade" rings true for me but I generally love 4.0-6.0 silver age and tend to get in that range whenever possible 🤑.

[PeterPark]

I can't swim in the deep end, price-wise (I happen to be an excellent swimmer, water-wise) so low grade is the only way I can play the game. That said, I have managed to get almost all the important silver age keys, instead of just a handful of high grade beauties. Higher grade is essentially always better, but I like to leave a convention with a pile, rather than the one thing that took all my money...