YouTube video about MyComicShop and ComicLink 9 9

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 11/26/2022 at 10:19 AM, ThothAmon said:

We obviously see things differently. An accepted offer on a comic book, purchased on layaway, is not a “sale” in my opinion until the agreed upon price is fully paid and the book changes hands. To call the date of the final payment the sale date is accurate and not “misleading”. In the real estate scenario it’s when the seller gets his money at the closing, not when the 3rd party mortgagee is paid off.   Ask Elon Musk what the sale date of Twitter was if you have any questions. 

and if the layaway isn't paid off, do they retrofit it as not a sale? That would get everyone in hot water as well. I mean they could "resell to recoup costs" but "they never really sold it to begin with, cause no one got paid. Might be better just not to report a layaway period  

[ADAMANTIUM]

I'll pay $5 for ASM #300, now someone accept my offer!?! so we can report to gpa!?! I'll pay you off in 5 years!!?!

Get me my book  

[shadroch]

In the event MCS pays a consigner and extends time payments, I'd go with the date the check is written to the consigner.

If MCS is selling their own books on time payments, it seems that is between MCS and GPA to come to an understanding. 

The guy in the video claims it takes MCS weeks to ship his books. I'm wondering if he has ever ordered from them. Conan would know, but is too professional to wallow into the mud over it.

[ADAMANTIUM]

I can accept layaway payments all day! "I'll accept a $1 a day for 3 years from now, for ASM #300, report that to gpa to affect the market?!"

but if it affects the price, and now ASM #300 as a result is only worth $100, I'm going to defunct payment, and have already gone on record as a sale that I can't prove happened???

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 11/26/2022 at 10:28 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I can accept layaway payments all day! "I'll accept a $1 a day for 3 years from now, for ASM #300, report that to gpa to affect the market?!"

but if it affects the price, and now ASM #300 as a result is only worth $100, I'm going to defunct payment, and have already gone on record as a sale that I can't prove happened???

 

try that on your taxes and see where it gets you  

[Aman619]

I loved the house analogy.  Until I remembered that the full purchase price DOES change hands at the closing.  After the seller collects from the bank and buyer, it’s just the buyers loan with the bank that is unpaid.  Comics time payments have no third party putting up the funds.

but, really, this has been just an interesting wrinkle to GPA values discovered by accident from the video.  And let’s step back a bit.  The last 6 months we have lived thru the first huge pullback in the comics market.  And therefore, this large 100K sale being dated 6 months later stood out!  In all other times, it would have landed on GPA with many comparable sales, and no harm no foul.  Or looked cheap.  
 

so now that the comics market actually CAN have a prolonged downward trend, it’s like Lake Mead drying up and exposing stuff unseen for decades.  So let’s profit from this moment to tighten it up.  Report time payments sales only after a buyer completes his payments, but use the sale date as when the buyer agreed to purchase the book.  This will be easier for both GPA and dealer to not have to be erasing Uncompleted sales reported at time of agreement to buy.  After all, with GPA, we aren’t seeing every sale that happens, so the data is an incomplete picture at best.  And overall we are fine with reading between the lines.  When a six month old sale is finally posted, with the date the market (the buyer) decided it was a fair deal, it’s just another datapoint to factor into buying decisions.  Late, but accurate and dated and calculated with the other reported sales of the same time period.  No more time payment outliers whose dates suggest a different story.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 11/25/2022 at 10:58 PM, Motor City Rob said:

On 11/25/2022 at 9:49 PM, Domo Arigato said:

I used that extreme because you seem to keep missing the point people are making.  As a side note regarding your objection.....there are currently more than 200,000 unsolved murders in the U.S.....and the FBI estimates there are 25 to 50 active serial killers in the U.S. at any given time.....so hide your Fruity Pebbles. 

The point is, there are other ways to state what you're saying without having an underlying tone of accusation to it.  

I can see why some people might be upset with the way it was being reported.  So, for example, you could simply state that you don't believe there was any intentional deception going on, but you think the way it's been reported is the wrong way to do it, and I think they should do it this way.

It's the additional "as far as we know" type of qualifiers being added to the "misleading" or "deceptive" parts that people are taking exception with.  There has been absolutely no indication at all that this particular scenario was intentional or even forseen when MCS first started reporting to GPA.....since they didn't offer time payments at that point.  They explained their current process in detail and it made perfect sense. 

 

Expand  

Probably unlikely that anyone can word things perfectly to cater to every single person's sensitivity or triggers. If you're offended by something said to you, that's on you and nobody else. Your idea of proper communication isn't necessarily right for everyone either, and maybe you offend people as well. 

In addition, something that makes "perfect sense" to you doesn't mean you're correct and everyone else is wrong for possibly being a little more thoughtful and asking more questions. You're going down the path in dealing in absolutes.

How about we take your record of sales and audit your taxes, since you thing MCS money is so easy to manipulate, and see you you make out your way on your own? (presuming your not an accountant) and see if you do it as well concerning a million dollar company who gives you data from personal sales for free, whom I would also assume has their papers in order?

[blazingbob]

On 11/26/2022 at 11:42 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

How about we take your record of sales and audit your taxes, since you thing MCS money is so easy to manipulate, and see you you make out your way on your own? (presuming your not an accountant) and see if you do it as well concerning a million dollar company who gives you data from personal sales for free, whom I would also assume has their papers in order?

Winner for longest run on sentence.  

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 11/26/2022 at 10:46 AM, blazingbob said:

Winner for longest run on sentence.  

amen  

I have no skin in this game, just wanted to offer perspective that the sale probably would be when internally reported for taxes, that is the only info I'd provide for GPA.

I am neither a tax accountant nor otherwise authority, but I'll bow out, as I seem a little more "louder" than I mean too, lot going on post holidays. 

I'll simmer down  

[Phill the Governor]

On 11/26/2022 at 11:40 AM, Aman619 said:

Report time payments sales only after a buyer completes his payments, but use the sale date as when the buyer agreed to purchase the book.

yeah this doesn't over complicate things.

Sales recorded when the sale happened, period. How it was paid for is completely irrelevant. That it was actually paid for, is relevant and already discussed. Those instances of non-payment/completion are so few and far between the entire landscape of reporting sales should not change to accommodate them.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Phill the Governor

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 11/26/2022 at 10:55 AM, Phill the Governor said:

yeah this doesn't over complicate things.

Sales recorded when the sale happened, period. How it was paid for is completely irrelevant. That it was actually paid for, is relevant and already discussed. Those instances are so few and far between the entire landscape of reporting sales should not change to accommodate them.

But can GPA not put it in until the pay off? Like if I promise to pay it off in 6 months, shouldn't GPA not report it until November, but when they add it it to the report, add it in 6months prior to November. Say in November that it happened in May? That kind of thing?

[Phill the Governor]

On 11/26/2022 at 11:59 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

But can GPA not put it in until the pay off? Like if I promise to pay it off in 6 months, shouldn't GPA not report it until November, but when they add it it to the report, add it in 6months prior to November. Say in November that it happened in May? That kind of thing?

See above discussion.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 11/26/2022 at 11:00 AM, Phill the Governor said:

See above discussion.

right I get it, I just thought since they were separate companies, and not affiliated to own that data etc

 I'll go home hahaha

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 11/26/2022 at 10:57 AM, namisgr said:

Neither.  It is flat-out misleading to post to GPA an alleged sale of a comic book that isn't actually completed, and so is not a sale.

Call it what you will.  Just don’t submit 6 month old data to GPA as new data.  
 

Easy Peasy....

[shadroch]

GPA is now aware of what some think is a problem.  He can issue new guidelines on when he wants a sale like this reported.  If he doesn't handle it the way you like, you can stop using his service.  It's not rocket science.

[shadroch]

GPA is now aware of what some think is a problem.  He can issue new guidelines on when he wants a sale like this reported.  If he doesn't handle it the way you like, you can stop using his service.  It's not rocket science.

[THE_BEYONDER]

[Aman619]

On 11/26/2022 at 11:55 AM, Phill the Governor said:

yeah this doesn't over complicate things.

Sales recorded when the sale happened, period. How it was paid for is completely irrelevant. That it was actually paid for, is relevant and already discussed. Those instances of non-payment/completion are so few and far between the entire landscape of reporting sales should not change to accommodate them.

Few and far between but if the goal is to be as accurate and timely as possible, GPA has to choose which is more important for their product overall.  I think posting data before it’s actually been paid for invites extra work for both dealer and GPA.  And worse, this puts us back to questioning the motives of those reporting to GPA. We absolutely don’t want the possibility of anyone saying their book sold for X and then say it didn’t sell (especially if they made up the sale) By and large, there aren’t that many reporters to GPA and GPA has weeded out the bad actors who gravitated to GPA early on to manipulate the data for their benefit.  Human nature when a new thing comes along.

If I were George, I would opt for later but accurate for time payments. I’d want everything posted to GPA to be a legit sale (based on GPAs trust level in the dealer who send in the data). And not one that might have to be deleted later on if the payments stopped.

I suppose GPA could use a color to signify “reported but not verified, or paid for” or maybe “Time payments pending”. But now GPA has to monitor all these listings and chase dealers to get the final status, etc.  not worth it.

[mjoeyoung]

If you go to the "About GPAnalysis" page on their website, they state that they "saw a need for timely pricing data in the collectables space."  This sale is definitely "out of time," reflecting the market from six months ago.  To take it multiple steps further, if someone had entered into a 5 year payment plan in 2017 for an AF#15, should that resulting sale be entered today?

For this data point to have ANY value it would need to be placed in the proper context, either by annotating it in some way to address the fact that it is the result of time payments, or placing it with like sales from the time period in which the contract was entered into.

[Domo Arigato]

On 11/26/2022 at 8:32 AM, Motor City Rob said:

Yes, seems like we will just keep going in circles. I will continue to say that the way MCS reported was misleading, although there is no concrete proof that they were or were not intentionally trying to deceive, and you will keep quoting me saying you don't like how I word things. In the end, a problem was uncovered, and then fixed. Hopefully we can at least agree on the last part. 

An issue was simply uncovered that raised questions on how a time payment should be reported to GPA.  You think it was reported incorrectly.  That doesn't make your opinion right, and not everyone agrees with you on how it should be reported.  As far as going in circles, I don't mind it, because it tends to expose agendas.  As I inferred before, there is also no concrete proof that you aren't a serial killer either.....so to keep saying things like that is beyond ridiculous.  So, you can keep posting in your accusatory tone about MCS....which you obviously feel the need to do over and over as my last post shows......and I will keep posting about how you're being misleading.