What comic cover is considered the "first" Homage cover. 2 2

[gadzukes]

On 1/17/2023 at 10:29 AM, Ken Aldred said:

Never knew that. Even after 50 years you can still learn something.

The ironic thing is that Avengers 57 is a cover that has had SO many covers created as an Homage to it, and yet IT is an Homage itself.

Edited January 19, 2023 by gadzukes

[B2D327]

On 1/17/2023 at 9:32 AM, gadzukes said:

What comic cover is considered the first "Homage" cover?

I'm not talking a blatant steal, I'm talking an actual homage by an artist in referencing a prior artist's work to honor it and not to steal from it.

I know there's lots of Homage covers in the Bronze age and I'm sure there's at least a few from the Silver age (Avengers 57 comes to mind where the cover image is an homage to the first drawing of the Golden age Vision in MMC 13).

Are there any examples of homage covers in the Golden age?

Inspiration maybe? 

[theCapraAegagrus]

Am I understanding correctly? A "swipe" is simply an homage without accrediting the artist that inspired the new art?

I always understood an homage to be something that was clearly inspired by specific art, such as when Spawn covers are directly-inspired by other covers. If the ad copy says, "Homage to Dark Knight Triumphant", does that make it an homage?

[gadzukes]

On 1/19/2023 at 11:16 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Am I understanding correctly? A "swipe" is simply an homage without accrediting the artist that inspired the new art?

I always understood an homage to be something that was clearly inspired by specific art, such as when Spawn covers are directly-inspired by other covers. If the ad copy says, "Homage to Dark Knight Triumphant", does that make it an homage?

I see a swipe/steal as more of a lazy artist trying to meet a deadline.

I see an Homage as inspired by another artist, and possibly honoring a previous piece of work, but I don't think any ad copy needs to be noted if its obvious.

There's simply no doubt that this Mary Jane cover is an Homage to Avengers 57.  No extra ad copy is needed.

Edited January 19, 2023 by gadzukes

[gadzukes]

But this Swipe by Bob Kane for Detective 27 is NOT an Homage.... Bob Kane couldn't draw so he swiped everything

[Poekaymon]

On 1/19/2023 at 11:37 AM, gadzukes said:

There's simply no doubt that this Mary Jane cover is an Homage to Avengers 57.  No extra ad copy is needed.

Double homage even.

[OtherEric]

Earliest combo I'm aware of that was clearly a deliberate homage, not swipe.  The Superman cover was snagged online because I don't want to go dig for my copy:

 

 

[gadzukes]

On 1/19/2023 at 1:09 PM, OtherEric said:

Earliest combo I'm aware of that was clearly a deliberate homage, not swipe.  The Superman cover was snagged online because I don't want to go dig for my copy:

 

 

Yes!  I think "Deliberate" is a word to attach to the definition.  

[Poekaymon]

I always felt like it was a question of recognition.  I really only think something is a homage if it affirmatively states it or 2) if it's so recognizable that no statement is necessary (Action 15, H181/340, etc).  Short of that, swipe.   Especially if you're taking some obscure interior panel, or secondary element on a page or cover, I really don't see how that can be anything other than a swipe, even if you try to pass it off as a "homage" after the fact.  For example, in this thread, the Action 8 seems quite swipey to me (though it's possible that it was an obvious homage at the time to more cultured people, and those same people bought funny books, but I sort of doubt it).  Most of the other GA examples seem pretty swipey too.  I realize it's tempting to call them homages now because the source material is easily recognizable to the experts on this board, serious collectors who are armed with the sum of human knowledge at their fingertips thanks to the internet, but would most people have recognized them as clear homages in 1950?  What was the circulation and visibility of the source material? Would bet a lot of swipes became "homages" over time due to the rise in popularity of the swiper or the after-the-fact popularity of the source material.   

[Juno Beach]

On 1/19/2023 at 8:37 AM, gadzukes said:

I see a swipe/steal as more of a lazy artist trying to meet a deadline.

I see an Homage as inspired by another artist, and possibly honoring a previous piece of work, but I don't think any ad copy needs to be noted if its obvious.

There's simply no doubt that this Mary Jane cover is an Homage to Avengers 57.  No extra ad copy is needed.

Perhaps, but Allred acknowledges John Buscema in the sig. That should be the bare minimum for a homage.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Juno Beach
add

[D2]

On 1/19/2023 at 1:09 PM, OtherEric said:

Earliest combo I'm aware of that was clearly a deliberate homage, not swipe.  The Superman cover was snagged online because I don't want to go dig for my copy:

 

 

This feels like the clearest and safest example of an homage, not a swipe, so far. 

[gadzukes]

On 1/19/2023 at 10:17 PM, Juno Beach said:

Perhaps, but Allred acknowledges John Buscema in the sig. That should be the bare minimum for a homage.

I didn't even see that.  It makes it even better.

 

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 1/19/2023 at 11:43 AM, gadzukes said:

But this Swipe by Bob Kane for Detective 27 is NOT an Homage.... Bob Kane couldn't draw so he swiped everything

Never seen this before!  Where did that "Flash" character image come from -- a comic book?  Cover or interior panel?

[OtherEric]

On 1/21/2023 at 8:59 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Never seen this before!  Where did that "Flash" character image come from -- a comic book?  Cover or interior panel?

From the Flash Gordon comic strip, I believe.

[october]

On 1/17/2023 at 9:45 PM, jazawlacki said:

I have a scholarly essay soon to be published about homage, swipes, and parody covers. Oldest homage I could find was Action Comics #8 (Jan 1939) homage to N.C. Wyeth's painting for James Fennimore Cooper's The Last of the Mohicans (1919). But I'm sure there are older!

As far as homage, swipe, and parody, there is very little evidence for hard definitions. This can be best seen in the Jim Rugg controversy for Red Room. Some saw it as "parody" and disrespectful, others saw it as "homage" and didn't mind.

 

 

Interesting question on what the earliest/first swipe is. Action 8 is the earliest I know of, though it wouldn't surprise me if some of the Adventures from '38 had paintings as their source material.

A lot of swipes from 1940, as artists used pulp covers as inspiration. Here's an early favorite from my collection.

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by october

[LowGradeBronze]

On 1/19/2023 at 4:09 AM, jazawlacki said:

 

So, the strange thing is that we comic heads think it's cheap or easy when artists rip off of other artists. It could be Greg Land "practicing" in a way, could be "parodying" the popularity of another, or could be trying to legitimize the comic by borrowing from another, more popular/well known comic.

Or they could just be lazy.

There's certainly commercial value in making reference to an iconic cover image that would likely boost sales that month. Draw in some lapsed comic readers too, who relate to/remember the original. 

[Point Five]

On 1/19/2023 at 10:25 AM, gadzukes said:

I'm trying to differentiate between all the Swipes, which I don't see as "Homage", with a cover that's an intentional Homage.

Even Action 8..... seems like more of a "swipe to meet a deadline" than an homage.  Although... most "swiped" art gets changed a bit to try to disguise the swipe, and Guardineer's cover swipe is not changed... so maybe it is an homage.

I guess it's tough to know for sure in some cases.  

Ahh you're right, the conversation drifted into swipes and I was addressing that. My bad.

On homages, the Adventure 247/Superman 147 (1958/1961) is a great find and I can't think of one earlier. If an earlier one exists, it might be more likely to be an homage to a fine art piece rather than a comic cover... because (kind of tying back to my earlier comments) the artists of comic covers in the 1930s-50s were largely anonymous to their readers, and it would have felt like a big stretch to assume knowledge of a previous cover. Again, comic books were thought of as disposable entertainment, that could be picked up, read in any order and discarded. Even continued stories didn't really catch on until the Marvels of the 1960s. 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Point Five

[justadude]

On 1/22/2023 at 9:31 AM, LowGradeBronze said:

There's certainly commercial value in making reference to an iconic cover image that would likely boost sales that month. Draw in some lapsed comic readers too, who relate to/remember the original. 

Absolutely. I think market forces are the main driver now, which ties it to McFarlane as the father of the new kind of homage. His covers are so popular artists today can STILL cash in on his designs through homages.

To add to the swipe/homage debate, guessing an artist's intention is usually a fool's errand. Writing "After" "Thanks" etc. just gives us a clue to their intention which is often inscrutable. We have no idea what those artists thought of the works they were "swiping" or "homaging." The conversation could have been "Wow, that's a great form. I hope I can do some justice to X's line work." Or "Dang, I really need to get this done in four hours. Bob, hand me that comic." We'll never know which means it's just up to the individual collector.

Edited January 23, 2023 by jazawlacki