Is this acceptable...? Because it hurts my brain. 3 3

[Andrewandrewandrew]

I recently got a submission back from CGC with some dismal results. Most of the comics I thought would be 9.6- 9.8 received 9.2 and 9.4s and ones I thought I would be lucky to get a 9.0 received a 9.6. I will provide several pictures to show you my point. I mostly wanted to get feed back and ask if waviness in comics will affect the grade (even though I cant see any other issues with the comic) more so than a tear. Because in that same submission an uncleaned, unpressed, tear in the corner comic received a 9.6, and a comic with some waviness received a 9.2. I know that waviness is an issue on my end with my pressing and am currently working that issue out now as I have just started doing my own books. However is this grading accurate and more importantly acceptable? If you think there is something that can be done about this please give me some input because I really don't want to send books off if this is the type of results that come of it. 

[Phill the Governor]

As a collector involved with graded books for well over a decade now I can unequivocally state:

The financially motivated sale of CGC to Blackstone in 2021 has completely impacted the quality of every aspect of CGC's grading- to such a negative degree that..

Long time collector's who have been a CGC Premium member have, for the first time in a long time, decided that there is too great of a risk that CGC will damage or incorrectly grade books and are not renewing their memberships.

The letter from Mark Salzberg is the canary in the coal mine. This is the line that does CGC in: " Blackstone was different. We saw that they recognized our vision and were willing to invest in building a stronger company that adds even more value and vibrancy to the collectibles markets." Considering the reality of how absolutely insane the lack of quality control has been since the acquisition, we are literally being gaslit into being told that the Blackstone purchase was a good thing for CGC and it's customers.

I like collecting a very small amount of Modern or Bronze high grade books. And I can say that 100% of the books I've purchased (already graded 9.8s) not a single one looks like a 9.8 in the case because it was either over-graded or the case itself caused new damaged to the book. There's absolutely no way I'm the only one that thinks this.

Not sure where we go from here, but considering how hard it is to simply buy an already graded high grade book and have it retain it's grade (or even be graded properly to begin with) submitting books with expected high grades is too high a risk. It's not worth it. Even if, somehow, the book was graded properly and not damaged by the case, there is an incredibly high likelihood there will be scratches and scuffs on the inner well/case which will impact the aesthetics.

 

Edit: Just wanted to add (since this has received several likes over the last few days) that Matt Nelson has been absolutely awesome throughout the above. Any time I've had a specific issue, reaching out to him directly has resulted in a fast, courteous response/remedy of the issue. He, as an individual, definitely should be acknowledged.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Phill the Governor

[theCapraAegagrus]

The grading for your submission doesn't look accurate to me, based on the pictures. Pictures don't always tell the whole story, but that definitely shouldn't be a 9.6, IMO.

[joeypost]

The millions of dollars invested into CCG’s system hard at work, for your ultimate disappointment. 

[Phill the Governor]

On 1/17/2023 at 10:28 AM, Andrewandrewandrew said:

 I know that waviness is an issue on my end with my pressing and am currently working that issue out now as I have just started doing my own books.

Woof, I somehow missed this part.

While CGC has their share of blame and problems with grading, new people beginning to learn to press on their own and then being surprised with grades, even a few years into pressing (most of these people have only been pressing for weeks at the least and a year at most) is exhausting.

You shouldn't be surprised by books you're submitting if you're clearly still learning how to press. The learning curve for grading alone is higher than most people think, and most people routinely over estimate their ability to grade, let alone press properly.

Not trying to be mean, but unless you plan on making a career out of working with books, or have an elevated sense of patience (which most of us don't), it takes more time to perfect this than almost anyone is willing to put in. In short, save the grief and just pay someone else that has a good reputation to do it.

 

 

[LowGradeBronze]

I understand your disappointment but to call 9.2 and 9.4 grades dismal is a little strong. Anything 9.0 and above is near mint. That's not a dismal grade. Near Mint. Say it a few times: Near Mint, and see if you're still disappointed to have near mint comics. I wouldn't be! 

[Funnybooks]

ASM 365 in it's current state is not a 9.6..damage during encapsulation or transport?

Lobo at 9.2 seems fair...there is noticeable stress on the wraps and especially along the spine that indicates this copy was handled/read at some point.

[PeterPark]

I have also seen numerous examples of comics looking they were damaged during encapsulation.

Were you disappointed in the grade on the ASM 365? With that lower corner damage, I wouldn't expect a grade that high. That said, I'd also be careful to disclose it if you are looking to sell as the webbing can obscure damage in pictures that people would not be happy with in hand. I don't have a problem with the 9.2 on the Lobo book. It still came back high grade but waviness isn't a non-issue.  A press should've been able to fix that.

[Dr. Balls]

On 1/17/2023 at 3:49 PM, PeterPark said:

A press should've been able to fix that.

I've read that a book pulled out of the press too early will have waviness like that.

Was that Lobo pressed before subbing?

Edited January 17, 2023 by Dr. Balls

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/17/2023 at 6:04 PM, Dr. Balls said:

I've read that a book pulled out of the press too early will have waviness like that.

Was that Lobo pressed before subbing?

“I know that waviness is an issue on my end with my pressing and am currently working that issue out now as I have just started doing my own books.”

OP

[Dr. Balls]

On 1/17/2023 at 4:54 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

“I know that waviness is an issue on my end with my pressing and am currently working that issue out now as I have just started doing my own books.”

OP

Oh duh. Thanks for highlighting that - I missed reading that.

[Lazyboy]

Are you guys all unfamiliar with bindery tears and how CGC grades them? Admittedly, that's a pretty bad one and could possibly have been worsened after grading.

As for the wavy books, CGC should (and does) hit books damaged by newbs who think they know how to press, even if their reasons aren't what they should be.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/17/2023 at 7:51 PM, Lazyboy said:

Are you guys all unfamiliar with bindery tears and how CGC grades them? Admittedly, that's a pretty bad one and could possibly have been worsened after grading.

The CB crease suggests it’s more than a bindery tear.  It looks like the whole corner was bent over

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by THE_BEYONDER

[PeterPark]

On 1/17/2023 at 7:51 PM, Lazyboy said:

Are you guys all unfamiliar with bindery tears and how CGC grades them? Admittedly, that's a pretty bad one and could possibly have been worsened after grading.

As for the wavy books, CGC should (and does) hit books damaged by newbs who think they know how to press, even if their reasons aren't what they should be.

Looked like a corner bend to me. If it's a bindery tear, my understanding is it would not factor into the grade.

[Lazyboy]

On 1/17/2023 at 7:04 PM, PeterPark said:

Looked like a corner bend to me. If it's a bindery tear, my understanding is it would not factor into the grade.

That corner definitely started as a bindery tear. It's certainly possible that CGC someone damaged it at some point, either before or after grading.

[Dr. Balls]

On 1/17/2023 at 6:17 PM, Lazyboy said:

That corner definitely started as a bindery tear. It's certainly possible that CGC someone damaged it at some point, either before or after grading.

I dunno, my understanding is that a bindery tear is a tear (or mushrooming) of the very corner of the paper that (to my best guess) comes from either the paper catching something on the bindery machine while being saddle stitched, or that it is a weak spot in the paper and when folded, the very edge of it splits.

The book above looks like an impact as there is no tearing/mushrooming of the spine at the base of the book like this one:

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

@Andrewandrewandrew

No pre-submission scans?

[joeypost]

On 1/17/2023 at 8:03 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

The CB crease suggests it’s more than a bindery tear.  It looks like the whole corner was bent over

 

 

 

This is a very common issue with this book. Usually top and bottom of the spine. 

[Andrewandrewandrew]

On 1/17/2023 at 2:30 PM, Phill the Governor said:

Woof, I somehow missed this part.

While CGC has their share of blame and problems with grading, new people beginning to learn to press on their own and then being surprised with grades, even a few years into pressing (most of these people have only been pressing for weeks at the least and a year at most) is exhausting.

You shouldn't be surprised by books you're submitting if you're clearly still learning how to press. The learning curve for grading alone is higher than most people think, and most people routinely over estimate their ability to grade, let alone press properly.

Not trying to be mean, but unless you plan on making a career out of working with books, or have an elevated sense of patience (which most of us don't), it takes more time to perfect this than almost anyone is willing to put in. In short, save the grief and just pay someone else that has a good reputation to do it.

 

 

Oh I agree that statement. However was the waviness worse than that tear when it comes to grading? And I have no information to go off of as they didnt include grades notes for the 9.2 and I really dont see many defects with the 9.2 other than light spine stress and slight waviness. 

[Andrewandrewandrew]

On 1/17/2023 at 2:45 PM, LowGradeBronze said:

I understand your disappointment but to call 9.2 and 9.4 grades dismal is a little strong. Anything 9.0 and above is near mint. That's not a dismal grade. Near Mint. Say it a few times: Near Mint, and see if you're still disappointed to have near mint comics. I wouldn't be! 

Oh I agree, I just thought the 9.6 asm would be lucky to get a 9.0 and the lobo was 9.4 and up. I mostly wanted to have a discussion on if waviness should drop the grade more than a tear.