Leaf Casting ASM 1 trimmed pages or leave the pages alone? 0

[TC33]

So some of the more familiar names are all way back logged.  I need someone decent at leaf casting that can add maybe 1/4-1/8" back to the bottom pages of a grail that had the bottom of the pages trimmed off, they can leaf cast the bottom of the cover also if they want, but I have a pro already going to do the bottom cover art for me, but he is old school rice paper only but still an amazing artist.   Any suggestions?  Of course perhaps that is too much work adding to all 16 pages since the cover just needs moderate/ext work to look 6.0+ range.  Maybe I am better off just leaving the pages so the work does not bump past mod/ext and even with the trimmed bottom of the pages still hope for 4.5-5.0 range?  Another option is just leaf casting the bottom of the first wrap only so it looks nice when you open it up, but then you still notice more how much the rest of the pages are missing?   Essentially, I would like to max appearance and value/return without going full on extensive which is a big hit to the value, so suggestions from a leaf caster & those experienced at restoring & submitting restored books is appreciated.

Edited March 1, 2023 by TC33

[JollyComics]

I see you are using the fund that you won 1st prize from the recent grading contest.

The leaf casting is a good idea to make the book looks appeal but you will get the same PLOD label with either A-1 Slight/Moderate or Moderate with the improved grade.  Maybe you may get PLOD and Conservation label.  https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/4084/

You can call CCS for more details.

[TC33]

On 3/1/2023 at 2:51 PM, JollyComics said:

I see you are using the fund that you won 1st prize from the recent grading contest.

The leaf casting is a good idea to make the book looks appeal but you will get the same PLOD label with either A-1 Slight/Moderate or Moderate with the improved grade.  Maybe you may get PLOD and Conservation label.  https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/4084/

You can call CCS for more details.

I guess if we only did leaf casting & no color touch that it could potentially get a conservation label and it would not even be trimmed anymore since the leaf casting/conservation fixes that, that is an idea to consider.

Edited March 1, 2023 by TC33

[JollyComics]

On 3/1/2023 at 4:21 PM, TC33 said:

I guess if we only did leaf casting & no color touch that it could potentially get a conservation label and it would not even be trimmed anymore since the leaf casting/conservation fixes that, that is an idea to consider.

The trimmed part?  I am not sure about that.  You probably may be the first one.

[Qalyar]

On 3/1/2023 at 4:21 PM, TC33 said:

I guess if we only did leaf casting & no color touch that it could potentially get a conservation label and it would not even be trimmed anymore since the leaf casting/conservation fixes that, that is an idea to consider.

A trimmed book is trimmed forever. You may improve appearance by leaf casting material onto the existing paper stock, but what was trimmed away is gone forever; no matter what you do, this will be a purple label.

That said, because it is a purple label no matter what, I guess there's no harm in making it look prettier if you want to spend the money into it. Regardless, what I would not do is just leaf cast the cover and not the interior pages (assuming you're intending to resubmit to CGC) because that will be rejected from encapsulation due to overhang. Of course, if this is just going in a Mylar, do whatever Spider-floats your Spider-boat.

[TC33]

Why are they sticklers on not encapsulating a book that has overhang on an edge?  I don't see how that damages the book any further?  If going the full resto route, I am afraid leafcasting that small edge on all 16 pages pushes it to extensive.  

[Hero Restoration Resurection]

The minute you plan for moderate, is the moment CGC has already decided extensive. It's like rolling the dice expecting a pair of sixes. Either way, I wish you luck finding someone, I am done casting entire books.

Mike

P.S I am open to training someone now, but like Bill Sorrell, a will not be cheap. Oh, and take a number.

[KCOComics]

You could check with Kenny Sanderson. PM me if you want his info. 

 

I've had Kenny do some leaf casting work, although never to correct for trimming. 

At a minimum, he'll jump on the phone with you and give you fair and honest advice. 

Such a shame that book was trimmed. Looks like a really sharp copy otherwise. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

I would consider restoring the cover but not the interior pages.

[Sauce Dog]

On 3/1/2023 at 6:55 PM, Qalyar said:

A trimmed book is trimmed forever. You may improve appearance by leaf casting material onto the existing paper stock, but what was trimmed away is gone forever; no matter what you do, this will be a purple label.

That said, because it is a purple label no matter what, I guess there's no harm in making it look prettier if you want to spend the money into it. Regardless, what I would not do is just leaf cast the cover and not the interior pages (assuming you're intending to resubmit to CGC) because that will be rejected from encapsulation due to overhang. Of course, if this is just going in a Mylar, do whatever Spider-floats your Spider-boat.

Pretty sure this is demonstrably not true. Leaf casting any missing material, be it from a ripped off chunk or trimmed edge, can result in a conserved label as it is repairing a structural issue (so long as there is no color touch being added afterwards). 

I've seen many purple label GA books shift to conserved labels in such a manner.

edit: reached out to some of the restoration pros I know - confirmed that leaf casting a trimmed book will result in a Conserved label. It doesn't matter the intent or how the original pieces were removed (ripped off by accident / panels clipped out by a kid / or edges trimmed by a scammer), all that matters is it is now fixed and would be labeled as pieces added (or something to that effect, give or take some details depending on who is filling out the notes that day)

Edited March 5, 2023 by Sauce Dog

[Sauce Dog]

On 3/1/2023 at 10:47 PM, KCOComics said:

You could check with Kenny Sanderson. PM me if you want his info. 

 

I've had Kenny do some leaf casting work, although never to correct for trimming. 

At a minimum, he'll jump on the phone with you and give you fair and honest advice. 

Such a shame that book was trimmed. Looks like a really sharp copy otherwise. 

I second this recommendation. Since you are only looking for leaf casting, not full restoration, this might make sense for this book considering how good it looks otherwise. There is a pretty big swing potential, so long as the investment cost for the casting works for you (and I would leaf cast all the pages, not just the cover)


edit: to clarify, conservation makes sense in this case only if you don't have a crazy amount spent already on this issue. If you paid less than $4000 it makes sense, but if you paid more then the window of potential value gain gets much smaller. If you paid $8000 for this, then don't do it.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Sauce Dog

[Qalyar]

On 3/4/2023 at 8:04 AM, Sauce Dog said:

Pretty sure this is demonstrably not true. Leaf casting any missing material, be it from a ripped off chunk or trimmed edge, can result in a conserved label as it is repairing a structural issue (so long as there is no color touch being added afterwards). 

I've seen many purple label GA books shift to conserved labels in such a manner.

Does anyone have an example of this? A book that had trimming "reversed" and received a gray label? I'd like to see how they notated such a book.

[Upgrayedd2]

Go for the restore

[TC33]

On 3/4/2023 at 8:45 AM, Qalyar said:

Does anyone have an example of this? A book that had trimming "reversed" and received a gray label? I'd like to see how they notated such a book.

Never on a conserved book, but I have had trimming reversed on a restored book where its no longer noted on the label other than pieces replaced.  Thus I think it would at least have a shot for a conserved label if you only did leaf casting and nothing else but I have never attempted it.  For foolish Mortal, I can show you ample GPA prices that prove restoration can add significant value to some books like this one that already have issues like trimming etc.  If it were unrestored 1.5/2.0 you would have an excellent point, but its already purple label and it would not take all that much work to drastically improve the grade/appearance on the bottom of that book and the rest of the book is already in high grade/amazing shape, so its a great candidate. 

[JollyComics]

On 3/7/2023 at 4:58 PM, TC33 said:

Never on a conserved book, but I have had trimming reversed on a restored book where its no longer noted on the label other than pieces replaced.  Thus I think it would at least have a shot for a conserved label if you only did leaf casting and nothing else but I have never attempted it.  For foolish Mortal, I can show you ample GPA prices that prove restoration can add significant value to some books like this one that already have issues like trimming etc.  If it were unrestored 1.5/2.0 you would have an excellent point, but its already purple label and it would not take all that much work to drastically improve the grade/appearance on the bottom of that book and the rest of the book is already in high grade/amazing shape, so its a great candidate. 

Have you reached the verdict?

[Sauce Dog]

On 3/7/2023 at 6:23 PM, Foolish Mortal! said:

How does leaf-casting a trimmed book get a Conserved label? You're not conserving anything, and you're not saving the book from any further structural damage 

"In 2016 CGC began recognizing conservation, a sub-category of restoration. While restoration focuses in aesthetic improvement, the goal of conservation is to preserve the structural integrity of the comic while removing all things that are detrimental to its longevity. It includes many of the same enhancements as restoration, such as cleaning, tear seals, spine split seals, reinforcement, piece re-attachment, and staple replacement, but excludes aesthetic enhancements like color touch and piece fill. Because amateur materials and techniques are usually unsightly, irreversible or harmful to a comic book, such as re-glossing, trimming and the use of non-archival glue, only professional applications are considered for a conservation classification."

Not all trimming is created equal, I've seen a few that clearly looked like a dull blade was used (or at least time was not kind to that edge) and caused some small pulling of the fibres at points - those can easily catch and pull over time resulting in damage. Uneven trimming as well can cause damage due to overhang.

I've asked one leaf caster directly about it and he told me in his experience it resulted in Conserved labels.