The battle of Captain America Comics 1 7.0 CC vs Clink 2 2

[lou_fine]

On 3/8/2023 at 9:23 AM, atomised said:

I prefer the clink copy.  It doesn't appear to be heavily photoshopped or the image filters adjusted as some boardies have pointed out on the cc copy.  They also could have easily dropped some saturation filters over the video with Vince.

Well, then how about that "nice looking" non-CVA and non-QES Heritage copy above hat sold at a substantially higher price point of $312K?    

Edited March 8, 2023 by lou_fine

[atomised]

On 3/8/2023 at 9:39 AM, lou_fine said:

Well, then how about that "nice looking" non-CVA and non-QES Heritage copy above hat sold at a substantially higher price point of $312K?    

I think 2021 and 2022 can be referred to as the "comic book boom" with most prices across the board starting the dip in mid to late 2022, and likely may be outlier years.  That copy probably was right on the cusp of the decline.  I'm seeing prices reset to above 2020 levels, and significantly below 21-22 for most keys.  Of course, there are many exceptions but it's been fairly steep in terms of these declines we've seen in 2023.

[Professor K]

On 3/8/2023 at 12:36 PM, lou_fine said:

Well, apparently not just ComicLink as bidders can still find bargains within Hertiage's own website itself:    

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/detective-comics-82-dc-1943-cgc-vg-40-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/122305-19343.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Looks like this 35th highest graded copy of 'Tec 82 for a "whopping" $840 on January 29 of this year, while this 17th highest graded copy below sold for the exact same but "not quite so whopping" $840 this past Sunday or a mere 5 short weeks later.  I guess it must have been all of the FOMO driven mania brought about by the Super Bowl football fans:    

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/detective-comics-82-dc-1943-cgc-fn-65-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/122310-11285.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Or is it possible that as @Professor K had alluded to above, potential bidders are possibly aware of other copies coming up and might have refrained from bidding on the 17th highest graded copy when they can pursue one of the real highest graded copies out there such as the one below.  Especially with both the Heritage and CC archives indicating only one higher graded copy ever selling on their platforms, with that one being the highest graded CGC 9.2 Alfred Pennyworth Rockford copy back in 2020.  

https://www.comicconnect.com/item/971895

Looks like only a week to go and we'll find out if the price of this copy gets to only $840 or below, then it really was all abut the FOMO driven rabid Super Bowl football fans driving the price.  And if it gets to say $1,785 or above (i.e. dumb simple arithmetic at 8.5/4.0 * $840 ) then maybe potential bidders do pay attention and are indeed aware of other copies available in the marketplace.    

How do you do that? You put an "@" in front of someones name? Sure even with a not so special book like that above most people look to see if there is another one currently happening or or coming soon. Everyone here surely does, right?. With a big book like Cap 1 no doubt every bidder does....I would hope. Still surprised no one threw in an extra bid or two on the Clink Cap 1. My prediction is the CC copy wil get another 1 or 3 bids but that's all. Doubt it will go much over 250K with bp mostly because of what the CL copy sold for. 

[Professor K]

On 3/8/2023 at 12:39 PM, lou_fine said:

Well, then how about that "nice looking" non-CVA and non-QES Heritage copy above hat sold at a substantially higher price point of $312K?    

Because no one cares much about those labels when bidding. It's a little bonus that's all. Might be good for an extra bid or two here and there. 

[Professor K]

On 3/8/2023 at 12:23 PM, atomised said:

I prefer the clink copy.  It doesn't appear to be heavily photoshopped or the image filters adjusted as some boardies have pointed out on the cc copy.  They also could have easily dropped some saturation filters over the video with Vince.

How would they make the book look better in the video without making Vince look like an Oompa Loompa or a face on an L.B. Cole cover? Does Comicconnect have that much technology? I think they just have good lighting at the office. 

[atomised]

On 3/8/2023 at 12:13 PM, Professor K said:

How would they make the book look better in the video without making Vince look like an Oompa Loompa or a face on an L.B. Cole cover? Does Comicconnect have that much technology? I think they just have good lighting at the office. 

I can only speak from my own experience as a youtube content creator.  I have Adobe Premiere Pro editing software on my desktop.  You go to the effects library and drop a filter on it and adjust the contrast.  No one looks like a oompa loopa and you can't tell.  It's very easy to do.

[lou_fine]

On 3/8/2023 at 12:13 PM, Professor K said:

How would they make the book look better in the video without making Vince look like an Oompa Loompa or a face on an L.B. Cole cover? Does Comicconnect have that much technology? I think they just have good lighting at the office. 

 

On 3/8/2023 at 12:56 PM, atomised said:

I can only speak from my own experience as a youtube content creator.  I have Adobe Premiere Pro editing software on my desktop.  You go to the effects library and drop a filter on it and adjust the contrast.  No one looks like a oompa loopa and you can't tell.  It's very easy to do.

Having absolutely zero knowledge about photo technology myself, I imagine you Photoshop experts can tell us which ones of these scans is more realistic?  

According to quite a few boardies here, this so-called totally enhanced and amped up scan of the 7.0 Cap 1 from CC:  

 

Or this exact same copy as scanned by Heritage with the virtually unreadable CGC logo when it was sold for $228K back in May of 2019:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/captain-america-comics-1-timely-1941-cgc-fn-vf-70-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/7209-91066.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515#

Edited March 8, 2023 by lou_fine

[Dark Knight]

Wow what a difference between the two scans 

[lou_fine]

On 3/8/2023 at 12:04 PM, Professor K said:

Still surprised no one threw in an extra bid or two on the Clink Cap 1. My prediction is the CC copy wil get another 1 or 3 bids but that's all. Doubt it will go much over 250K with bp mostly because of what the CL copy sold for. 

Well, just one more bid will take it over the over the $250K price point and 5 more bids will take it over the $300K milestone threshold level.  

My personal feeling is that if the CL auction model was using either the CC or HA step by step incremental auction format, they most likely would have gotten those extra one or two additional bids thrown in there.  I believe the customer base for these real high dollar value books like Cap 1 and the likes are more old school and conservative in their way of thinking and are adverse to throwing in what would amount to a "blind Hail Mary" type of bid at the last possible second to try and snipe a win on this kind of book.  They would probably much prefer to make a "fully informed bidding decision" whereby they know exactly what the top bid is and exactly what they have to bid to beat it, as opposed to trying to guess if they should throw in a bid of say $251K or $301K at the last possible micro-second to try to snipe the book for their win.    

Now, the younger generation with their more speculative and crypto like mentality don't mind playing these Hail Mary type games and probably actually find it fun to toss in much higher blind bids on readily available hot books like Spidey 300, Batman Adventures 12, and the likes on their go to CL auction platform.  When it comes to a a Cap 1, now that's a completely different story and the type of book that most of them probably could not even dream on owning in the current stage of their life and career. 

[Courageous Cat]

On 3/7/2023 at 3:03 AM, lou_fine said:

Maybe this is a good opportunity to see how grading changes over different time periods or not from a strict visual POV at least .  

The CL 7.0 copy of Cap 1 was graded back in March of 2003 while the CC copy was graded back in March of 2019, while this Heritage copy was graded back in October of 2012:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/captain-america-comics-1-timely-1941-cgc-fn-vf-70-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/40200-83099.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515#

Interesting to note that this seemingly not quite as nice copy (relatively speaking) from a visual POV is the current high mark to date for a CGC 7.0 graded copy at $312K sold back in May of 2022.

Edit:  My bad and a needed correction here as the high water mark for a CGC 7.0 graded copy of Cap 1 was actually set by CC at $339,760.60 (i.e. hammer bid of $295,444) in an Event Auction held back in March of 2022.  

you submit this same book with cgc's new tighter grading standards and this is a 5.0 all day long

[lou_fine]

On 3/9/2023 at 4:01 AM, Courageous Cat said:

you submit this same book with cgc's new tighter grading standards and this is a 5.0 all day long

Don't you realize these are the CGC boards here, and as a matter of courtesy, you should always say to buy the label, NOT the book.  

Now, if these were the CL or CC boards here, if they even had any, you should then be saying............buy the sticker, NOT the label.    

Seriusly though, based upon the serial number, this book was graded back in 2012 which is nortoriously known to be a soft grading time period.  

[CGC Mike]

On 3/8/2023 at 3:04 PM, Professor K said:

How do you do that? You put an "@" in front of someones name?

Hit the @ key, and start typing someone's id.  A dropdown list will appear.  When the correct board member shows up in the dropdown list, click on it.   That will "flag" the board member to the thread.

[MrBedrock]

On 3/8/2023 at 7:19 PM, lou_fine said:

Well, just one more bid will take it over the over the $250K price point and 5 more bids will take it over the $300K milestone threshold level.  

My personal feeling is that if the CL auction model was using either the CC or HA step by step incremental auction format, they most likely would have gotten those extra one or two additional bids thrown in there.  I believe the customer base for these real high dollar value books like Cap 1 and the likes are more old school and conservative in their way of thinking and are adverse to throwing in what would amount to a "blind Hail Mary" type of bid at the last possible second to try and snipe a win on this kind of book.  They would probably much prefer to make a "fully informed bidding decision" whereby they know exactly what the top bid is and exactly what they have to bid to beat it, as opposed to trying to guess if they should throw in a bid of say $251K or $301K at the last possible micro-second to try to snipe the book for their win.    

Now, the younger generation with their more speculative and crypto like mentality don't mind playing these Hail Mary type games and probably actually find it fun to toss in much higher blind bids on readily available hot books like Spidey 300, Batman Adventures 12, and the likes on their go to CL auction platform.  When it comes to a a Cap 1, now that's a completely different story and the type of book that most of them probably could not even dream on owning in the current stage of their life and career. 

And what do you base all of these hair-brained assumptions on?

Edited March 9, 2023 by MrBedrock

[lou_fine]

On 3/9/2023 at 1:10 PM, MrBedrock said:

And what do you base all of these hair-brained assumptions on?

Not much since I am losing more and more of my hair and apparently my sense as I am getting up there in age.  

Then again, I do see you as the exception to the general rule in terms of a long time collector still more than willing to spend big monies on top end books in this current hot GA marketplace, as clearly evident by many of the books which you have won and posted to share with us here.  

Edited March 9, 2023 by lou_fine

[MrBedrock]

On 3/9/2023 at 3:44 PM, lou_fine said:

Not much since I am losing more and more of my hair and apparently my sense as I am getting up there in age.  

Then again, I do see you as the exception to the general rule in terms of a long time collector still more than willing to spend big monies on top end books in this current hot GA marketplace, as clearly evident by many of the books which you have won and posted to share with us here.  

Thanks for the kind words, but I am still curious on what you base your assumptions made above? They go counter to everything I experience as a dealer, but I don't run auctions.

[adamstrange]

On 3/9/2023 at 5:09 PM, MrBedrock said:

but I don't run auctions.

 

You would make an entertaining auctioneer.

 

[batman_fan]

On 3/9/2023 at 2:10 PM, MrBedrock said:

And what do you base all of these hair-brained assumptions on?

You must be new to the boards 

[Professor K]

On 3/9/2023 at 1:27 PM, lou_fine said:

 

 

On 3/9/2023 at 4:10 PM, MrBedrock said:

And what do you base all of these hair-brained assumptions on?

 I see his point. I think it's true at times. Heritage and CC, you know exactly how much you will be dishing out for the book if your bid wins. With Comiclink you really have no choice if you really want the book to bid high and hope no one else did the same. I can see that being a reason to just not bid at all. Stinks when you see that one jerk cost you hundreds or thousands extra with 1 second to go.  It's just more comfortabe to know exactly what you will spend with each bid you make if you win.  With Clink it's like playing poker with just one bet per hand before you see your cards. 

But it could also be a positive thing for bidders. Something caused no one to bid over 200k on the Clink Cap 1 and I don't think it was the appearance of the book. And the winner may have had a 300k bid in. So they got lucky, but more often than not that jerk shows up at the last second. 

Also Clink doesn't create bidding fever like the other two do so that could sometimes effect the hammer. People who are strong willed, who can't handle losing, have really deep pockets, low self control, desperate. or drunk can create higher prices so much more on HA and CC. Two people like that going for the same book........forgetaboutit. Just theory's that's all. 

On 3/9/2023 at 1:47 PM, CGC Mike said:

Hit the @ key, and start typing someone's id.  A dropdown list will appear.  When the correct board member shows up in the dropdown list, click on it.   That will "flag" the board member to the thread.

Thanks Mike!

Edited March 10, 2023 by Professor K
spelling correction

[sartrexpress]

On 3/7/2023 at 12:15 AM, sagii said:

This was my first Cap 1 .. solid book

[lou_fine]

On 3/9/2023 at 2:09 PM, MrBedrock said:

Thanks for the kind words, but I am still curious on what you base your assumptions made above? They go counter to everything I experience as a dealer, but I don't run auctions.

Well, probably really more a case of to each their own, but like I had stated right off the bat, it's just my personal feeling which means that it's certainly opened up to dispute from others.  

I just personally tend to believe the majority of old school longer term collectors are probably more risk adverse as compared to the newer CGC generation of collectors who probably don't mind taking a bit bit of risk and might actually find some fun in doing it, while some others would avoid it by choosing not to particpate at all.  Sure, I know that from a rational POV, bidders are simply supposed to put in their maximum amount that they are willing to spend on a particular book.  But my sense of human nature tells me although they might not mind to spend another $50K or $100K on a particular book, they don't want to "voluntarily" throw that number out their on their own, unless they are actually forced to and that's where step by step incremental bidding comes in.  

Then again, like you said, it might just be a hair-brained assumption on my part here.