Comparing Grading Tools 1 1

[Mokiguy]

This is only my second post here at the CGC forums, so I'm not even sure if asking this is allowed or adding websites to this post, or if this is the appropriate forum, but I'm sure someone will set me straight if I'm off base on any or all the things I just mentioned.

I grade my own comics for my own collection and my own database. Not to sell, though someday I might, but for now I am just enjoying collecting, grading and cataloguing what I have. I'm still fairly new at this and have been trying to hone my grading skills, and searching on line I ran across a few grading tools/sites/programs, and was wondering if any of you are familiar with these, and if you have or are using any of these,  what your opinion is comparing one to the other. Do you like one over the other? Do you think one is more accurate than the other? Or do you think any or all grading tools are just a bunch of hooey.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Here are the three programs I have tried out ...... the first and second appear to be based on the same set of criteria, the third is completely different:

https://www.comicbookgradingtool.com/

https://comicbookrealm.com/example-based-grading

https://spotongrading.com/

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Mokiguy

[The Lions Den]

On 3/12/2023 at 1:11 PM, Mokiguy said:

This is only my second post here at the CGC forums, so I'm not even sure if asking this is allowed or adding websites to this post, or if this is the appropriate forum, but I'm sure someone will set me straight if I'm off base on any or all the things I just mentioned.

I grade my own comics for my own collection and my own database. Not to sell, though someday I might, but for now I am just enjoying collecting, grading and cataloguing what I have. I'm still fairly new at this and have been trying to hone my grading skills, and searching on line I ran across a few grading tools/sites/programs, and was wondering if any of you are familiar with these, and if you have or are using any of these,  what your opinion is comparing one to the other. Do you like one over the other? Do you think one is more accurate than the other? Or do you think any or all grading tools are just a bunch of hooey.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Here are the three programs I have tried out ...... the first and second appear to be based on the same set of criteria, the third is completely different:

https://www.comicbookgradingtool.com/

https://comicbookrealm.com/example-based-grading

https://spotongrading.com/

 

Have you considered buying the CGC guide to grading comics? 

[Mokiguy]

Quote

Have you considered buying the CGC guide to grading comics? 

I've considered it, but up to now I have been using the Overstreet guide.

[The Lions Den]

On 3/12/2023 at 5:09 PM, Mokiguy said:

I've considered it, but up to now I have been using the Overstreet guide.

That's a good place to start, but the CGC guide has a wealth of information about current grading standards... 

[KCOComics]

Use the spare a grade section here.

I learned a lot about grading from reading people's opinions and see what they look for.  

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

I've only ever used OSPG, and CGC's descriptions, as references for grading.

[Axe Elf]

On 3/12/2023 at 12:11 PM, Mokiguy said:

This is only my second post here at the CGC forums, so I'm not even sure if asking this is allowed or adding websites to this post, or if this is the appropriate forum, but I'm sure someone will set me straight if I'm off base on any or all the things I just mentioned.

I grade my own comics for my own collection and my own database. Not to sell, though someday I might, but for now I am just enjoying collecting, grading and cataloguing what I have. I'm still fairly new at this and have been trying to hone my grading skills, and searching on line I ran across a few grading tools/sites/programs, and was wondering if any of you are familiar with these, and if you have or are using any of these,  what your opinion is comparing one to the other. Do you like one over the other? Do you think one is more accurate than the other? Or do you think any or all grading tools are just a bunch of hooey.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Here are the three programs I have tried out ...... the first and second appear to be based on the same set of criteria, the third is completely different:

https://www.comicbookgradingtool.com/

https://comicbookrealm.com/example-based-grading

https://spotongrading.com/

 

It sounds like you are where I was a year ago--starting from zero knowledge about comics and grading.

I've used the example-based grading site myself, and it's pretty solid; its weakness is that it can sometimes be hard to fit your book's actual defects into the categories they use (spine crease or spine stress?  Are two or three long non-color-breaking creases the same as one?  etc.).  I like the other site you listed that uses the same criteria, though, now that I've seen it--the example-based grading site forces you to go through all the steps in order, and you can't go back to any previous step to edit your response; you just have to start over if you make a mistake.  So the other one looks a little easier to use, but I have no experience with it.  If it does indeed grade the same as the example-based grading site, it is probably pretty solid also.

I have no experience with the SpotOnGrading app.

I also found these sites useful in accelerating my learning curve, because they not only provide descriptions of the various grades, but pictures of graded examples to which you can compare your book:

Nostomania

Comichaus

Artful Investments

I've also referred to the guide at Heritage Auctions, but without pics, the descriptions are of limited use.

Using just the instruction from these online sites, in six months I had learned enough about grading to finish in the top half of my second-ever grading contest (held quarterly or so in the Grading forum).  Hopefully you will reap a similar harvest.

P.S.  The site I've had the worst results with is Mile High Comics.  There is some useful information there, but I've also run into some instances where they seem to treat defects wildly differently from CGC--CGC is way more lenient on "Marvel chipping," for instance, which for Mile High could never exceed a 3.0, but CGC often assigns higher grades to books with Marvel chipping.  So I'd be careful with that one, at least in terms of mimicking CGC grading standards.

[Mokiguy]

Quote

I've used the example-based grading site myself, and it's pretty solid; its weakness is that it can sometimes be hard to fit your book's actual defects into the categories they use (spine crease or spine stress?  Are two or three long non-color-breaking creases the same as one?  etc.).

The biggest problem I have is the terminology that not only these tools use but Overstreet or CGC or other TPG's or some of these other sites you mentioned like Nostomania and others. Words like subtle, or minuscule, or tiny or negligible or moderate. When describing a tear as is negligible, does that mean 1/6th of an inch or 1/8th of an inch or 2 1/16th inch tears. Or are two of those now minuscule or tiny, and then are 3 moderate? It seems that it's so damn subjective because I'm sure that one persons tiny is another persons minuscule. One persons major is another persons moderate etc.

[Axe Elf]

On 3/13/2023 at 1:31 PM, Mokiguy said:

The biggest problem I have is the terminology that not only these tools use but Overstreet or CGC or other TPG's or some of these other sites you mentioned like Nostomania and others. Words like subtle, or minuscule, or tiny or negligible or moderate. When describing a tear as is negligible, does that mean 1/6th of an inch or 1/8th of an inch or 2 1/16th inch tears. Or are two of those now minuscule or tiny, and then are 3 moderate? It seems that it's so damn subjective because I'm sure that one persons tiny is another persons minuscule. One persons major is another persons moderate etc.

To some extent, but a lot of the tools listed are more specific than that--giving options for a <3mm tear, a 5mm tear, a 10mm crease, a 40 mm crease, etc.  The gray area for me is if there are two or three 5mm tears, that's obviously worse than 1--but how much?

A lot of the descriptive tools use words like "mild" and "moderate" in regards to soiling, cover wear, etc., and some of that can be hard to gauge--but in general, if it's "mild" it's not that noticeable, and if it's "moderate" it's apparent.  If it goes so far as "severe" then it really detracts from the book's appeal.

I actually don't think I've seen words like "subtle" or "miniscule" or even "negligible" in any grading guides I've seen.  If something was negligible, it could be neglected, right?  Those sound more like eeBay descriptors than grading guidelines.

I've also seen some books that are just covered in little dents that you don't even really notice until you reflect some light off of it, so that's another thing the tools don't help much with--having a LOT of something that would be relatively minor on its own.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Axe Elf

[Mokiguy]

Quote

I actually don't think I've seen words like "subtle" or "miniscule" or even "negligible" in any grading guides I've seen.  If something was negligible, it could be neglected, right?  Those sound more like eeBay descriptors than grading guidelines.

Well I think you may just have overlooked some of these words, but they are there and just how do you quantify some of them? For instance right here at the CGC grading scale guide for a 9.8 it says .......... "A nearly perfect collectible with negligible handling or manufacturing defects".

Out of the Overstreet grading guide 6th edition 2021 for a 9.6 it says ...... "BINDERY DEFECTS - Only subtle bindery or printing defects are allowed.

In the Nostomania grading guide it says under sections for the grades 9.9, 9.8, and 9.6 that only "subtle" bindery or printing flaws are allowed.

And as I'm typing this I can't remember where minuscule came from, but I saw it in some guide as well. If I remember or find it I'll post that as well.

So anyway, those words are there and how can you determine what they mean since each person seems to have a different opinion about what they mean

[Axe Elf]

On 3/14/2023 at 9:36 AM, Mokiguy said:

Well I think you may just have overlooked some of these words, but they are there and just how do you quantify some of them? For instance right here at the CGC grading scale guide for a 9.8 it says .......... "A nearly perfect collectible with negligible handling or manufacturing defects".

Out of the Overstreet grading guide 6th edition 2021 for a 9.6 it says ...... "BINDERY DEFECTS - Only subtle bindery or printing defects are allowed.

In the Nostomania grading guide it says under sections for the grades 9.9, 9.8, and 9.6 that only "subtle" bindery or printing flaws are allowed.

And as I'm typing this I can't remember where minuscule came from, but I saw it in some guide as well. If I remember or find it I'll post that as well.

So anyway, those words are there and how can you determine what they mean since each person seems to have a different opinion about what they mean

Ok, I technically stand corrected about the words appearing in the general grade descriptions, but I meant in terms of specific defects; I've never heard of a "negligible" corner crease or a "subtle" spine tear.  When they get to talking about actual defects, they are usually mild, moderate, or extensive/severe, or actually quantified in terms of a 5mm tear, a 40mm crease, etc.

[marvelmaniac]

Welcome To The Boards!!!

Grading has so many "Gray" areas and terms used such as were mentioned above or words such as slight, small, minor, minimal, etc. and these words are all similar, they may have the same meaning or may be interpreted differently by different folks, this makes grading and agreeing on a grade very difficult at best.

Here is an example of confusion, from Heritage and probably Overstreet...FN 6.0

6.0 FINE (FN):  Back to Top
An above-average copy that shows minor wear but is still relatively flat and clean with no significant creasing or other serious defects. Some accumulation of minor bindery/printing defects is allowed. Minor cover wear apparent, with minor to moderate creases

"No Significant Creasing", "With Minor to Moderate Creases" how do you interpret that, what is the difference between Moderate and Significant, isn't that open to individual interpretation since there are no black and white definitions in the grading guide, such as if it is this length is minor or this length makes it moderate, etc.

I have always used Overstreet and Heritage Auctions grading standards so I am somewhat consistent on the books I grade, I have nothing against CGC or CGC graded books, however, from what I have seen/read on this site CGC has been inconsistent in their grading and they tend to change their view on certain books depending on the book and the market, however, it is CGC grading and their standards that most dealers use these days.

https://comics.ha.com/tutorial/comics-grading.s?show=comicdefinitions

Just find a grading tool you are comfortable with and use it to learn the terminology and how to grade, then you will be able to compare the other grading guides/tools out there.

Grade a couple of your books, write down the defects you see and the grade you determined the book to be, then post clear pics of the book (Front and rear covers, inside cover(s) with the splash page and centerfold, clear pics of the staples, spine and corners) then post the pics in the https://boards.cgccomics.com/forum/42-hey-buddy-can-you-spare-a-grade/ , do not post the defects/grade you have written down, this way you will see what others say without your hints/clues to see how accurate you are.

The grading standards listed on this site are far outdated, however, the glossary is great.

http://www.teako170.com/grade.html

[Mokiguy]

On 3/14/2023 at 9:27 AM, Axe Elf said:

Ok, I technically stand corrected about the words appearing in the general grade descriptions, but I meant in terms of specific defects; I've never heard of a "negligible" corner crease or a "subtle" spine tear.  When they get to talking about actual defects, they are usually mild, moderate, or extensive/severe, or actually quantified in terms of a 5mm tear, a 40mm crease, etc.

OK, I wasn't trying to be the "Oh Yea, I'll just one up you then sort of guy ....... I just meant that the words are there and and I see little difference between subtle and minor, or moderate and negligible. All those words are open to interpretation. Nowhere in any grading guide or grading tool have I seen it clearly stated  that two 1/8" tics limit the grade to this. or 6 1/4" tics limit it to that.  I get it that you can describe a tear or a crease in millimeters, but soiling or spine roll or sun shadow or stress marks or a number of other things are all open to interpretation. It would seem, and I'm speaking as a novice, that most things could be quantified if the powers that be wanted to, but then would would be the need for TPG services. 

Perhaps the meanings will make more sense as one grows in grading skills. I think I'm not too bad already, but it's those fuzzy areas that can't be counted in millimeters or in amounts that are problematic.

[Mokiguy]

On 3/14/2023 at 9:32 AM, marvelmaniac said:

Welcome To The Boards!!!

Grading has so many "Gray" areas and terms used such as were mentioned above or words such as slight, small, minor, minimal, etc. and these words are all similar, they may have the same meaning or may be interpreted differently by different folks, this makes grading and agreeing on a grade very difficult at best.

Here is an example of confusion, from Heritage and probably Overstreet...FN 6.0

6.0 FINE (FN):  Back to Top
An above-average copy that shows minor wear but is still relatively flat and clean with no significant creasing or other serious defects. Some accumulation of minor bindery/printing defects is allowed. Minor cover wear apparent, with minor to moderate creases

"No Significant Creasing", "With Minor to Moderate Creases" how do you interpret that, what is the difference between Moderate and Significant, isn't that open to individual interpretation since there are no black and white definitions in the grading guide, such as if it is this length is minor or this length makes it moderate, etc.

I have always used Overstreet and Heritage Auctions grading standards so I am somewhat consistent on the books I grade, I have nothing against CGC or CGC graded books, however, from what I have seen/read on this site CGC has been inconsistent in their grading and they tend to change their view on certain books depending on the book and the market, however, it is CGC grading and their standards that most dealers use these days.

https://comics.ha.com/tutorial/comics-grading.s?show=comicdefinitions

Just find a grading tool you are comfortable with and use it to learn the terminology and how to grade, then you will be able to compare the other grading guides/tools out there.

Grade a couple of your books, write down the defects you see and the grade you determined the book to be, then post clear pics of the book (Front and rear covers, inside cover(s) with the splash page and centerfold, clear pics of the staples, spine and corners) then post the pics in the https://boards.cgccomics.com/forum/42-hey-buddy-can-you-spare-a-grade/ , do not post the defects/grade you have written down, this way you will see what others say without your hints/clues to see how accurate you are.

The grading standards listed on this site are far outdated, however, the glossary is great.

http://www.teako170.com/grade.html

I will do that, about taking good pictures of books I've graded and presenting them at the buddy can you spare a grade forum. Thanks for the idea. Somebody else mentioned that early on in this thread but I didn't think it answered my questions so I glazed over it at that time. So thanks to you as well.

[The Lions Den]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:36 AM, Mokiguy said:

Well I think you may just have overlooked some of these words, but they are there and just how do you quantify some of them? For instance right here at the CGC grading scale guide for a 9.8 it says .......... "A nearly perfect collectible with negligible handling or manufacturing defects".

Out of the Overstreet grading guide 6th edition 2021 for a 9.6 it says ...... "BINDERY DEFECTS - Only subtle bindery or printing defects are allowed.

In the Nostomania grading guide it says under sections for the grades 9.9, 9.8, and 9.6 that only "subtle" bindery or printing flaws are allowed.

And as I'm typing this I can't remember where minuscule came from, but I saw it in some guide as well. If I remember or find it I'll post that as well.

So anyway, those words are there and how can you determine what they mean since each person seems to have a different opinion about what they mean

I always like to follow a few simple guidelines when grading books: 

1) Don't overthink it. 

2) If you don't feel comfortable with a given grade, be able to back up why you're not comfortable with it.

3) Remember that even the best graders miss things, and there can be a variety of different grades on a given book without anyone being wrong.

4) Keep in mind that grading isn't an exact science, but there are certain flaws which aren't allowable in certain grades. Don't be so concerned about the terminology---the more books you see, the easier it will become to arrive at an accurate, reasonable grade.   

 

 

[Randall Dowling]

On 3/14/2023 at 2:26 PM, The Lions Den said:

I always like to follow a few simple guidelines when grading books: 

1) Don't overthink it. 

2) If you don't feel comfortable with a given grade, be able to back up why you're not comfortable with it.

3) Remember that even the best graders miss things, and there can be a variety of different grades on a given book without anyone being wrong.

4) Keep in mind that grading isn't an exact science, but there are certain flaws which aren't allowable in certain grades. Don't be so concerned about the terminology---the more books you see, the easier it will become to arrive at an accurate, reasonable grade.  

This is all solid advice.  The last item is particularly good.

[Randall Dowling]

On 3/14/2023 at 3:33 PM, Devil Horns 🤘 said:

In case you guys didn't know, LD worked for CGC 

And he's exceedingly good looking. 

[Axe Elf]

On 3/14/2023 at 4:05 PM, Devil Horns 🤘 said:

I only posted the pics because someone said they had never seen them before.

I've actually never seen ANY Overstreet grading guides, but it's interesting for to me to see now why other people who have been in this longer than I have keep mentioning those terms in grading descriptions, so thanks for the history lesson.

All of my experience has been with publicly available guides on websites within the past year.

[marvelmaniac]

On 3/14/2023 at 4:18 PM, Devil Horns 🤘 said:

Overstreet Grading Guide 2003:

That is extremely useful info, I just checked my Overstreet Grading Guide and there is was, I had absolutely no idea that was in there. What else can I say except...                  Thank You!!!

Edited March 16, 2023 by marvelmaniac