Writers Guild of America (WGA) strike news 2 2

[CAHokie]

On 9/13/2023 at 8:18 PM, MattTheDuck said:

It's the same with Costco branded (Kirkland) products and most of the "house" brands you see at Kroger, Safeway, et al.

Yep, Costco brand is actually some good stuff in disguise.

[Bosco685]

[Dr Zen]

On 9/13/2023 at 7:18 PM, MattTheDuck said:

It's the same with Costco branded (Kirkland) products and most of the "house" brands you see at Kroger, Safeway, et al.

This is true for most (if not all) generic products.

https://thedinnerdaily.com/generic-vs-name-brand-foods-is-there-really-a-difference/

 

[Bosco685]

No money for those silly creative types

 

[drotto]

On 9/19/2023 at 11:01 AM, Bosco685 said:

No money for those silly creative types

 

Granted the theme parks are by far the largest and most profitable division of Disney. In fact they often subsidize other departments.  They can survive without the content creation department (not saying they would thrive without them). No parks would be an instant collapse.

[CAHokie]

On 9/19/2023 at 11:01 AM, Bosco685 said:

No money for those silly creative types

 

0.88% of annual revenue is no small amount for a company like Disney.  I would have guessed 0.05,

[buttock]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:01 AM, Bosco685 said:

No money for those silly creative types

 

That's a bit of a straw man comparison.  One is an investment that will lead to revenue growth.  The other is adding cost to a dwindling revenue stream.  

[drotto]

On 9/19/2023 at 12:28 PM, buttock said:

That's a bit of a straw man comparison.  One is an investment that will lead to revenue growth.  The other is adding cost to a dwindling revenue stream.  

Disney + has lost close to $13 billion since it luanched. That is all about writers and content creation.  

[TupennyConan]

My goodness, think about the harm Disney could cause to its parks with ten years and $60B. 

[Bosco685]

On 9/19/2023 at 12:28 PM, buttock said:

That's a bit of a straw man comparison.  One is an investment that will lead to revenue growth.  The other is adding cost to a dwindling revenue stream.  

I think sometimes you have to trust in what we assume is occurring in the marekt is actually not the case. The Theater Box Office is a recovering market still and the Home Theater Market is huge.

Box Office Mojo conducted a study of ticket-to-box office trends and noted a slow rebound taking place going into 2023.

And Home Entertainment Spend is at a high in recent times. And this is just the Domestic Market. So Disney is going to walk away from a $37 Billion U.S. market for theme parks?

"Overall U.S. consumer spending across digital and physical home entertainment formats in 2022 was more than $36.5 billion, an 11.4 percent increase from the almost $33 billion consumers spent in 2021, driven by a raft of strong franchise properties coming from theaters and television," the Digital Entertainment Group (DEG) wrote in its 2022 report. "Consumers spent $34.5 billion on digital entertainment purchases (EST), rentals (VOD) and subscriptions for the full year, a jump of 14 percent over full year 2021. Spending on subscription streaming rose more than more than 17 percent for full year 2022, topping $30 billion."

Maybe don't attempt to convey a witty comment like 'straw man' if you haven't packaged up the analysis. 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Bosco685

[drotto]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:13 PM, TupennyConan said:

My goodness, think about the harm Disney could cause to its parks with ten years and $60B. 

Honestly, the parks may be in their most difficult position ever.  Universal is coming at them hard, with multiple new attractions, an entire new park, and hot IP's that are brining in big audiences. They are building an entire new park in 2 or 3 years, while Tron and the Guardians rides took like 5 years each to build, and Epcot has been under construction for 4 plus years now.  

 

This is money they almost needed to stay competitive. The Moana  water thing and a Figment meet and greet are going to mean nothing against Nintendo land, more Harry Potter, How to Train your Dragon, Universal Monsters, etc. Really, Disney is going to need a significant expansion of an existing park, or even a 5th gate, to stay on top.

[KingOfRulers]

On 9/19/2023 at 11:01 AM, Bosco685 said:

No money for those silly creative types

 

Anytime I see the usage of the term "fair" nowadays, I cringe. Its use attempts to inject the premise of superior morality for the user of the term, on what would otherwise be a purely mathematical negotiation.

What is "fair"? Fair for Participant A might be 5 while fair for Participant B might be 10. What makes either opinion fair or unfair? Every participant's idea of fair is merely their opinion. That's why the use of the term "fair" has become so ubiquitous.

The term "fair" in practice means that if you don't agree with the user of the term's opinion of what's "fair", then you're immoral and a bad person.

[buttock]

On 9/19/2023 at 12:20 PM, Bosco685 said:

I think sometimes you have to trust in what we assume is occurring in the marekt is actually not the case. The Theater Box Office is a recovering market still and the Home Theater Market is huge.

Box Office Mojo conducted a study of ticket-to-box office trends and noted a slow rebound taking place going into 2023.

And Home Entertainment Spend is at a high in recent times. And this is just the Domestic Market. So Disney is going to walk away from a $37 Billion U.S. market for theme parks?

"Overall U.S. consumer spending across digital and physical home entertainment formats in 2022 was more than $36.5 billion, an 11.4 percent increase from the almost $33 billion consumers spent in 2021, driven by a raft of strong franchise properties coming from theaters and television," the Digital Entertainment Group (DEG) wrote in its 2022 report. "Consumers spent $34.5 billion on digital entertainment purchases (EST), rentals (VOD) and subscriptions for the full year, a jump of 14 percent over full year 2021. Spending on subscription streaming rose more than more than 17 percent for full year 2022, topping $30 billion."

Maybe don't attempt to convey a witty comment like 'straw man' if you haven't packaged up the analysis. 

 

How much has Disney made off of streaming?  They're down billions and they should throw more money into a fixed cost which isn't paying off?  Yes people are spending on streaming, but that doesn't mean it's easy to make money.  How many streaming services have turned a profit?  They're all pruning.  So again, you're creating a straw man by saying that people spending money on streaming is equal to profit by streaming services.  There's your analysis.  

[Bosco685]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:37 PM, buttock said:

How much has Disney made off of streaming?  They're down billions and they should throw more money into a fixed cost which isn't paying off?  Yes people are spending on streaming, but that doesn't mean it's easy to make money.  How many streaming services have turned a profit?  They're all pruning.  So again, you're creating a straw man by saying that people spending money on streaming is equal to profit by streaming services.  There's your analysis.  

It's not a 'straw man' (misrepresented proposition) if the Digital Home Sales market is booming and the Theater Box Office is recovering. Whomever it is that taught you that concept misrepresented the intent. Please go back to them and claim that time back.

[Bosco685]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:36 PM, KingOfRulers said:

Anytime I see the usage of the term "fair" nowadays, I cringe. Its use attempts to inject the premise of superior morality for the user of the term, on what would otherwise be a purely mathematical negotiation.

What is "fair"? Fair for Participant A might be 5 while fair for Participant B might be 10. What makes either opinion fair or unfair? Every participant's idea of fair is merely their opinion. That's why the use of the term "fair" has become so ubiquitous.

The term "fair" in practice means that if you don't agree with the user of the term's opinion of what's "fair", then you're immoral and a bad person.

Or....in taking stock of all the senior executive decisions made by Bob Iger that led to a deep dive into Disney Plus and the $71.3 Billion purchase of Fox Studios was he excessively compensated? Especially since his key decisions drive enterprise goals and success or failure. Yet the creatives feeding the theater, streaming and home entertainment pipeline dealt with established wages no matter the bad decisions made at the top that would trickle down to them.

2022

2021

2020

2019

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Bosco685

[drotto]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:42 PM, Bosco685 said:

It's not a 'straw man' (misrepresented proposition) if the Digital Home Sales market is booming and the Theater Box Office is recovering. Whomever it is that taught you that concept misrepresented the intent. Please go back to them and claim that time back.

I think the streaming issue is actually relatively simple, but I have no clue how to fix it.  Maintaining massive server farms, and all that bandwidth is expensive.  Now add to that original content is more expensive than the streamers imagined.  They thought they could get away with spending a traditional network's 2 or 3 million per episode, but that quickly ballooned to $100 M plus for 8 or 10 episodes.  Then it became very hard to quantify how much those expensive shows really bring in. So expensive content that was likely losing money.

 

They created a catch 22, if they slow down content creation or make cheaper shows, they may lose viewers, if they spend the money, they need to raise subscription rates to justify the spending.  When they charge top much either drop or short sub and bing, then drop. When the streamers actually figure out a way to make money they may have something. 

[KingOfRulers]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:50 PM, Bosco685 said:

Or....in taking stock of all the senior executive decisions made by Bob Iger that led to a deep dive into Disney Plus and the $71.3 Billion purchase of Fox Studios was he excessively compensated? Especially since his key decisions drive enterprise goals and success or failure. Yet the creatives feeding the theater, streaming and home entertainment pipeline dealt with established wages no matter the bad decisions made at the top that would tricklet down to them.

2022

2021

2020

 

 

 

Was Iger "excessively" compensated? Again, another completely subjective matter of opinion.

In my opinion, he was paid too much. But I'm a Disney stockholder. Given the option, I'd prefer paying Iger a hefty bounty of $35k per year plus 10% off any theme park restaurants. I want the best deal possible. Iger also wants the best deal possible for himself. I can't fault him there. That's the name of the game. Doesn't everyone strive for the best deal for themself?

However, I'm not so full of my own opinion that I'd simultaneously suggest that those disagreeing with me are immoral or bad people.

[Bosco685]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:59 PM, drotto said:

I think the streaming issue is actually relatively simple, but I have no clue how to fix it.  Maintaining massive server farms, and all that bandwidth is expensive.  Now add to that original content is more expensive than the streamers imagined.  They thought they could get away with spending a traditional network's 2 or 3 million per episode, but that quickly ballooned to $100 M plus for 8 or 10 episodes.  Then it became very hard to quantify how much those expensive shows really bring in. So expensive content that was likely losing money.

 

They created a catch 22, if they slow down content creation or make cheaper shows, they may lose viewers, if they spend the money, they need to raise subscription rates to justify the spending.  When they charge top much either drop or short sub and bing, then drop. When the streamers actually figure out a way to make money they may have something. 

Like we have seen in the movie business over the years, once a trend starts they rush to catch up with one another. At one point they were rushing into the disc mail and rental business buying up brick-and-mortar chains. Then that dried up as a dying concept.

Streaming was the next "thing to be" that then they hadn't done a deeper dive on monetization. Though Disney was wise with the early premiere fee to figure out one unique approach.

[drotto]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:50 PM, Bosco685 said:

Or....in taking stock of all the senior executive decisions made by Bob Iger that led to a deep dive into Disney Plus and the $71.3 Billion purchase of Fox Studios was he excessively compensated? Especially since his key decisions drive enterprise goals and success or failure. Yet the creatives feeding the theater, streaming and home entertainment pipeline dealt with established wages no matter the bad decisions made at the top that would trickle down to them.

2022

2021

2020

2019

 

 

Two thing are always lost in talking about compensation.

1. CEO's oversee multiple divisions of a larger company. Iger in your example is responsible for Parks, ESPN, Cruise ships, streaming, and content creation. An actor or writer is contracted to do a job, gets payed and moves on.  It is not a long term job it is essentially gig work. Very different work in that respect.

2. CEO's are constantly under scrutiny and responsible for all the decisions being made. The buck stops with them.  Company does bad or loses money, they are gone. Actors and writers get paid up front (yes there are residual deals also).  If a project goes bad they still got paid in full, and have few fiscal risks if it performs poorly. Sure co sistent bad performance may hinder their future prospects, but they are generally not held fully responsible. 

[Bosco685]

On 9/19/2023 at 3:02 PM, KingOfRulers said:

Was Iger "excessively" compensated? Again, another completely subjective matter of opinion.

In my opinion, he was paid too much. But I'm a Disney stockholder. Given the option, I'd prefer paying Iger a hefty bounty of $35k per year plus 10% off any theme park restaurants. I want the best deal possible. Iger also wants the best deal possible for himself. I can't fault him there. That's the name of the game. Doesn't everyone strive for the best deal for themself?

However, I'm not so full of my own opinion that I'd simultaneously suggest that those disagreeing with me are immoral or bad people.

Ahhh, but you may from the way you started the discussion. Just keeping it in check from going as far as to imply "The other side is totally wrong!" And that's to your credit.

Meanwhile, for all the great Iger was able to pull off (including Pixar and Marvel and Lucasfilms), Fox Studios was the stretch that has added to that massive streaming operational budget as all that content was acquired to fill the airwaves.