CAF Live 5-20-23 2 2

[Michael Browning]

First and foremost, thanks to Bill Cox for putting on this great event! Bill goes above and beyond with everything he does for the art community and we should all be thanking him.

There's a lot of great art on here, but I haven't bought a single piece. There's one that I kind of thought about, maybe, but I didn't pull the trigger on it.

There's still a lack of Frank Miller art and that makes me believe that everyone that has Miller art is clinging to it. I only saw a few pieces by Miller. I found only one Paul Smith published piece. There were a few Mazzucchellis this year, which is good to see. I'm also not impressed with the Kirby offerings this time around.

I'm looking through the offerings and I am seeing LOTS of aspirational prices and a lot of retread art that's been offered time and time again -- only this time, it's at much higher prices. I see a lot of art that's sold in the last couple of years at auction that's hiked 2X and 3X what it sold for most recently. I like to think I'm in touch with the market, but, wow, a lot of the art for sale is priced at tomorrow's prices today.

I don't think such aspirational pricing is good for the hobby at all, unfortunately. I think it turns off any new collector who might be looking for a piece that fits in their budget, but then they see art with jacked-up prices that they'll never be able to afford and it may make them leave the hobby altogether.

But, hey, charge what you want, because it's your art. I just don't think a lot of it is selling.

One note I did make was that I saw that Anthony Snyder discounted his art offerings this time and that's very nice to see.

What's everyone's thoughts on this edition of CAF Live?

[fsumavila]

there is a lot of really nice art available, including a significant number of pieces I haven't seen offered before. I do see some CRAZY prices, but hey, if its yours, you can ask for whatever you want.  (What is kind of annoying is seeing some retread pieces that have been listed in every single CAF Live, posted again with even higher prices)

**Disclosure: For the first time I posted some art for sale on CAF Live. Sold one page within the first hour, and had inquiries about some others. So already I consider the event a success.**

 

I saw one or two moderately-priced pieces I really like, but I'm not sure I'm ready to pull the trigger. Let's see what pops up tomorrow.

 

Mike

[Michael Browning]

On 5/20/2023 at 4:56 PM, fsumavila said:

there is a lot of really nice art available, including a significant number of pieces I haven't seen offered before. I do see some CRAZY prices, but hey, if its yours, you can ask for whatever you want.  (What is kind of annoying is seeing some retread pieces that have been listed in every single CAF Live, posted again with even higher prices)

**Disclosure: For the first time I posted some art for sale on CAF Live. Sold one page within the first hour, and had inquiries about some others. So already I consider the event a success.**

 

I saw one or two moderately-priced pieces I really like, but I'm not sure I'm ready to pull the trigger. Let's see what pops up tomorrow.

 

Mike

Congrats on the sale! I really do need to try selling in the next CAF Live so I could see how selling some of my art would do.

 

[fsumavila]

On 5/20/2023 at 5:01 PM, Michael Browning said:

Congrats on the sale! I really do need to try selling in the next CAF Live so I could see how selling some of my art would do.

 

you absolutely should try it, especially since you certainly have a much larger and more diverse collection than I do. I imagine you'd find success, unless you get too "aspirational" in your pricing

 

[Michael Browning]

On 5/20/2023 at 5:03 PM, fsumavila said:

you absolutely should try it, especially since you certainly have a much larger and more diverse collection than I do. I imagine you'd find success, unless you get too "aspirational" in your pricing

 

I keep a close eye on the market and probably would try to sell at discounted prices. My problem is that I don't ever want to let anything go nowadays. I'm turning into a comic art hoarder.  

[Benedict Judas Hel]

I perused the art available today and there are a few nice pieces but no “must haves” for me.  I “saved” some and who knows?  Maybe some of the owners of those artworks may want to negotiate more in line with my budget…

[malvin]

On 5/20/2023 at 2:24 PM, Benedict Judas Hel said:

I perused the art available today and there are a few nice pieces but no “must haves” for me.  I “saved” some and who knows?  Maybe some of the owners of those artworks may want to negotiate more in line with my budget…

you can always make an offer. I accept offers on my FS pieces (with a note that I don't accept any offers until the end of the day in case there are people paying full price)

Malvin

[cloud cloddie]

My thoughts are the same as most CAFlive events… lots of deja vu, aspirational pricing, lots of recent recycling. Bought two pages first thing that I hadn’t seen up before. Was happy to get them because it seemed like the server was overloaded at open and wasn’t sure my requests would go through. Just like at normal cons, I avoid the dealers / flippers. 

[Benedict Judas Hel]

On 5/20/2023 at 4:28 PM, malvin said:

you can always make an offer. I accept offers on my FS pieces (with a note that I don't accept any offers until the end of the day in case there are people paying full price)

Malvin

Thanks!  While I am aware that I can make an offer, I still consider myself a novice when it comes to knowing “fair market value” for comic book art.  I just know my personal budgetary limits and would hate to make an offer based on said budget and unintentionally offend the seller with what he/she would consider a “low ball” offer thereby ruining a first impression.  I prefer to let the seller contact me first with his/her new negotiable price and if it is an amount that is closer to my monetary capabilities, then I will definitely engage.  Otherwise, I can thank them for their willingness to negotiate and apologize that it is still out of my price range.  And since, as I said in my initial post, the latter occurs or no sellers try to contact me, then it will not be a painful loss as no artworks were ones that I feel compelled to own.

However, 2 sellers have already reached out to all interested parties who have saved a couple of their pieces.  1 was still way out of budget with their new negotiable price while the other piece (a bit more desirable to me) is being offered by Cool Lines Art and say they are open to offers.  If I’m not mistaken, that is the business operated by the Donnelly Brothers, correct?  I’ve read some not too favorable anecdotes concerning them on this forum concerning their business operations (difficulties deciding on a final price amongst themselves and altering artwork) and would hate to spend my limited resources on negotiating a deal that may not occur.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Benedict Judas Hel

[KirbyCollector]

On 5/20/2023 at 7:57 PM, Benedict Judas Hel said:

the other piece (a bit more desirable to me) is being offered by Cool Lines Art and say they are open to offers.  If I’m not mistaken, that is the business operated by the Donnelly Brothers, correct?

Yes. Just make an offer and see what happens, but don't be surprised if they want quite a bit over FMV.

[The Voord]

On 5/20/2023 at 10:28 PM, malvin said:

you can always make an offer. I accept offers on my FS pieces (with a note that I don't accept any offers until the end of the day in case there are people paying full price)

Malvin

Yeah, that happened to me on a Magic the Gathering painting I offered at one of the previous events.  I had a dealer offer me a price that was actually below what I paid for the art (she was looking to re-sell to one of her clients), so I declined and not long afterwards a collector came along and offered full asking price.  Shortly afterwards, the dealer came back wanting to meet my price on the 'sold' art.  

[The Voord]

On 5/20/2023 at 9:21 PM, Michael Browning said:

What's everyone's thoughts on this edition of CAF Live?

I haven't bothered participating this year.  The only art I'd be willing to sell is stuff I've offered before that didn't sell.

There's not actually a lot of art out there that I'm now actively pursuing, so don't feel too inclined to have a look-see . . . though I may check things out later on today (Sunday) just to confirm my suspicion none of my 'wants' are there.  Generally, prices seem to be wishful-thinking . . . and not just by the dealers!

Edited May 21, 2023 by The Voord

[Rick2you2]

Some of the high end pieces, as others have said, were too steep to justify, but there were some nice pages in the sub-$1,000 to be had. No purchases this time, and once again, a few old “friends” were offered —pieces that never seem to sell for years yet are still offered again at the previously unpurchased amounts. Does anyone who goes to these not already know their pricing from CAT or CAF (regular)?

[Michael Browning]

On 5/21/2023 at 5:11 AM, The Voord said:

I haven't bothered participating this year.  The only art I'd be willing to sell is stuff I've offered before that didn't sell.

There's not actually a lot of art out there that I'm now actively pursuing, so don't feel too inclined to have a look-see . . . though I may check things out later on today (Sunday) just to confirm my suspicion none of my 'wants' are there.  Generally, prices seem to be wishful-thinking . . . and not just by the dealers!

I intend each year to finally set up and sell, but I usually don’t pay enough attention to know it’s coming up and I also don’t sell a lot of art nowadays. I think I’ve sold one piece in the last two years and that was a couple weeks ago when a collector reached out and asked to buy a cover I had. He offered double what I’d paid and really wanted it - and I didn’t love the art - so I sold it to him. I have numerous portfolios of art I could pull from, but I just never do it. If I did, though, I’d try to give bargains instead of trying to make my fortune on one piece, like so many of the sellers do.

[Dayzen]

Looking at the Sold listings, seems like Cockrum X-Men pieces were the big winners with three of the top 10 being his.
 

The Massafera FF 48 and Vader covers are amazing. 
 

overall, I’ve sold one piece and looking forward to Sunday’s drop. 

 

 

 

[Dr. Balls]

Ehhh, nevermind.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Dr. Balls

[KirbyCollector]

On 5/21/2023 at 7:50 AM, Dayzen said:

Looking at the Sold listings, seems like Cockrum X-Men pieces were the big winners with three of the top 10 being his.
 

The Massafera FF 48 and Vader covers are amazing. 
 

overall, I’ve sold one piece and looking forward to Sunday’s drop. 

 

 

 

Only 17 sales above $5000 makes me wonder how deep the pool is for higher priced art. For those if you who have been around a long time, what's your estimate on the # of buyers able to afford 5K, 10K, 20K, 50K and 100K+? I would say it halves with each step up -- so 400, 200, 100, 50 and 25. I base this off of activity on CAF, CAL, and the various auctions sites... but as I don't have insight into the "dark pool" of OA collectors, I defer to the more experienced folks here.

[Michael Browning]

Things I looked for that weren't there: Crystar, U.S. 1, Team America, published Bob Layton Hercules pages, Scott McCloud Zot and Bob Budiansky art. Even if I'd found any pages from any of those, I'm sure they would have been at sky-high prices.

On Saturday, there was very little Frank Miller Marvel or DC art, only one published Cerebus page, only one Steve Lightle piece, only one Ploog piece ... art we used to see for sale quite frequently just wasn't there and has been getting scarcer and scarcer with every CAF Live and with every auction.

I do think that means that people are holding onto a lot of their art because they are afraid of leaving money on the table and they know they can't get it back tomorrow for what they sell it for today.

I also believe that too many sellers went for the big cash grabs, rather than selling off some of their cheaper art, and they put people off with prices that were multiples of what the art sold for at auction recently. Sellers want to sell one piece that gives them a profit large enough to buy a car, rather than selling off a bunch of $250-$500 pages. Many of those sellers didn't sell much at all.

 

[Aahz]

There are probably a couple of factors at play.  Externally, if you watch the news (not recommended), it is doom and gloom regarding the economy, and people may just be holding back making a bigger, expendable purchase right now.

Internally to the hobby, the last few years have been a bit of a feeding frenzy.  It could be that collectors that have gotten more involved in the past few years are reassessing their collection and being more (for lack of a better word) thoughtful in what works with their collecting interests ... especially when prices have gone up as much as they have.  Also, the number of opportunities to buy art are more than ever.  There are soooo many places to look, that people may just not see the art.

Last point - the auction houses.  I think the reason the auction houses appear to be doing better than the dealers (according to Bill Cox's last few numbers) is 1) they are getting the newer, better stock and 2) that it feels more like a FMV on a piece.  As a buyer, when you know the dealers are buying there too, you are incentivized to go for the piece.

[Michael Browning]

On 5/21/2023 at 9:45 AM, Aahz said:

Last point - the auction houses.  I think the reason the auction houses appear to be doing better than the dealers (according to Bill Cox's last few numbers) is 1) they are getting the newer, better stock and 2) that it feels more like a FMV on a piece.  As a buyer, when you know the dealers are buying there too, you are incentivized to go for the piece.

I agree, 100%.