CAF Live 5-20-23 2 2

[oldwhy]

On 5/22/2023 at 3:41 PM, vodou said:

There is no traditional liquid “safe” option. Too bad, too sad for those captive to a closed circuit management portfolio.

Could you not simply move to cash or money market funds in your 401k? Are there 401k that don’t allow/offer this option? 

[grapeape]

On 5/22/2023 at 12:17 AM, thethedew said:

Bought one piece only, a MICRONAUTS page, which I was not expecting.  Also; at a reasonable price, which I was also not expecting.

I don't know why I was so surprised, CAL has been pretty good to me the past few years, a DYNAMO JOE page last year.

A few people viewed it before I did but either didn't like it much, or decided to leave it for me.  If the 2nd, thanks for cutting a guy a break!  

Did everyone who viewed a page get a reduced price offer? The guys were talking about that feature where a seller can tag all their viewers with a message, and first to respond wins.

Anyone take advantage of that or were the lowered prices not sufficient?

[Bronty]

On 5/22/2023 at 12:36 PM, grapeape said:

If I were a dealer, I wouldn't bring the same tired, stagnant art to CAL. Do you want to win collectors over? Maybe grow loyalty to your business?

How about introducing reasonably priced, never before seen art to CAL? Do you really need to save your "fresh" inventory for gimmick shows?

I went through the CAL inventory and constantly found myself saying," uggh there it is again."

I liked Dino Mauricio leading the afternoon Sunday show. He pointed out various good buys/ good looking art. Bill Cox and Dan P chimed in. CAL is improving, but I'd really appreciate a focus on honest to goodness freshly presented art, at no more than FMV pricing.

With all due respect, its a bit like hoping for Santa Claus to bring us unicorns for Christmas.    

In this day of auction houses its tough for dealers of vintage material to get fresh inventory.     

For it to be fresh AND reasonably priced is going to be especially tough.    That's nice for the buyer if that can happen, but what's in it for the dealer?   They are trying to maximize returns on what is today significant deployment of capital. 

[RafaVia]

I got those emails. And I did buy 2 pages discounted with a third additional page that the seller discounted for bulksale. Even threw in the shipping overseas! 
 

[BVladimirHarkonnen]

On 5/22/2023 at 12:48 PM, grapeape said:

Did everyone who viewed a page get a reduced price offer? The guys were talking about that feature where a seller can tag all their viewers with a message, and first to respond wins.

Anyone take advantage of that or were the lowered prices not sufficient?

I thought that was just for the Saved pieces, that the seller can send out a message with price reductions. I received a number pretty quickly after saving pieces and one via my initiated direct email response. 

[grapeape]

On 5/22/2023 at 9:53 AM, Bronty said:

With all due respect, its a bit like hoping for Santa Claus to bring us unicorns for Christmas.    

In this day of auction houses its tough for dealers of vintage material to get fresh inventory.     

For it to be fresh AND reasonably priced is going to be especially tough.    That's nice for the buyer if that can happen, but what's in it for the dealer?   They are trying to maximize returns on what is today significant deployment of capital. 

I hear ya Bronty. But I'm not asking them to drop $5k off their prices. I'm just asking for a fresh approach.

I understand the dealers face an inventory crunch. They have to pay more, so they sell higher. But how much return do you get from dead pulp? I was suggesting that what's in it for the dealers is rebuilding loyalty. The pipelines used to run more smoothly. It's not just pricing. It's attitude. Take it or leave it.

I respect many of the dealers I've bought something, or sold something to just about anyone you could name. But today I'm a lone wolf. It's not just prices that are freezing me out. It's a feeling that some guys just don't care about leaving stale bread on the display case. CAL is a terrible place to put $150k plus art. It's more of self promotion, than taking advantage of an opportunity to network and keep collectors interested.

I do hear you. It is a Christmas wish I reckon. Still, it's nice to hope for more.

Grape🎱pe 

 

[Bronty]

I hear you.   A good attitude can make a big difference.    Still, I think many people (not everyone thankfully , but many/most) are as honest and as respectful as the circumstances require.    
 

To put it another way, while auction houses make buying more expensive, they also set a floor for what a dealer can achieve on their piece, at virtually any moment they wish.    If you can consign and get 10k, and you have a deal with HA that results in very reasonable selling fees, what’s the motivation to price it at 10k?  
 

They can get 10k anonymously and with zero hassle.    So any deal outside that venue is going to be a higher number and if the number you want to pay is around 10 plus or minus, they probably aren’t going to have much time for the conversation.    There’s just nothing in it for them.   
 

It seems to me the business model has pretty well devolved to trying to find a few deals at auction and trying to move them for a premium outside of auction.    Selling at FMV or being nice to anybody about it is barely a consideration.    They need a certain number to make it work for them.   

[cstojano]

On 5/22/2023 at 9:48 AM, grapeape said:

Did everyone who viewed a page get a reduced price offer? The guys were talking about that feature where a seller can tag all their viewers with a message, and first to respond wins.

Anyone take advantage of that or were the lowered prices not sufficient?

I received these offers, one piece went for 500 on HA in 2019, offered at 1.5k on CAL, last day email offering 7% off.

Edited May 22, 2023 by cstojano

[Rick2you2]

On 5/22/2023 at 5:32 PM, cstojano said:

I received these offers, one piece went for 500 on HA in 2019, offered at 1.5k on CAL, last day email offering 7% off.

COVID pricing.

But now, we’ve mostly been vaccinated.

[Rick2you2]

On 5/22/2023 at 12:36 PM, grapeape said:

If I were a dealer, I wouldn't bring the same tired, stagnant art to CAL. Do you want to win collectors over? Maybe grow loyalty to your business?

How about introducing reasonably priced, never before seen art to CAL? Do you really need to save your "fresh" inventory for gimmick shows?

I went through the CAL inventory and constantly found myself saying," uggh there it is again."

I liked Dino Mauricio leading the afternoon Sunday show. He pointed out various good buys/ good looking art. Bill Cox and Dan P chimed in. CAL is improving, but I'd really appreciate a focus on honest to goodness freshly presented art, at no more than FMV pricing.

Another view is that this is exactly what a dealer would want to do: show the old tired pieces. The new stuff will attract attention. So, why waste it on the established collectors who go to CAL? Maybe, if presented differently, one will bite. 

[Michael Browning]

On 5/22/2023 at 12:48 PM, grapeape said:

Did everyone who viewed a page get a reduced price offer? The guys were talking about that feature where a seller can tag all their viewers with a message, and first to respond wins.

Anyone take advantage of that or were the lowered prices not sufficient?

I "liked" three pieces and was hoping to get some sort of email offer, but did not. Oh well, their loss. I was ready to buy at least one, maybe two of the pieces.

[Buzzetta]

Was interested in but thought that the GI Joe pages were overpriced based on what I have landed one on auction in the last six months and over the last ten years (gauging for price increases over time).  Just because it is Marvel GI Joe does not mean it commands a $1500 ask.   I could not justify pulling the trigger on either of them knowing that I can still get decent pages for under $1000.

Thought about a couple of things but I did not see anything that was a "must have".

I turn 48 next month and am inching toward retirement.  My coworker said it best on the train recently.  She was talking about her husband wanting to get her a piece of jewelry but she is starting to reframe certain things.  She could wear a five figure ring on her finger or she could put it toward the house extension she wants. 

Still might throw a cheapie offer out this evening.  I took pics of the pieces that remained that I was interested in as well as the sellers in case I changed my mind after the saved art pieces were no longer accessible. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Buzzetta

[RBerman]

On 5/22/2023 at 11:12 AM, grapeape said:

Bill Cox bought a Cockrum X-Men. He seemed very 😃 happy.

I would be too!!

[delekkerste]

No one has ever accused me of being an OA market pumper, so, let me just say that I was pretty impressed that more than 600 pieces were sold in the span of just two days, including dozens of pieces above $5K (it's actually more than just the 47 number; I know of at least 3 more >$5K pieces, including one I bought, that were purchased as a result of CAF Live but were not listed among the totals). 

I really don't know what more people could have expected - not everybody has time to look through 5,000 listings over a weekend (my wife was pretty annoyed that I spent as much time looking as I did). And, while there was certainly a good deal of aspirational pricing, especially at the higher end, there was also a lot of stuff that was priced to move. I bought 3 pieces from one seller (all very close to his cost basis judging from either direct HA sales data or market comps) and a fourth piece from another seller. Other things caught my eye as well, but, even at FMV, I was only ever going to shell out so much dough in one sale.

The only negative to my CAF Live experience is that I placed an order early Saturday for one piece, didn't hear back from the seller, followed up with him a couple hours later, still didn't hear back from him, and then saw the piece was marked SOLD on Sunday and I was never informed about such. My guess is that the seller either preferred to ship within Europe (hinted at in his listings) and waited to see if any offers came in from such, and/or his virtual booth was unattended on Saturday and he just sorted through all the offers he got later on (maybe Sunday morning in Europe). I feel like if you set up one of these virtual booths, you should have the courtesy of letting someone who fills out a Purchase Request form know that they did or didn't get the piece within a few hours. Or at least the same day. Or how about at all - that really shouldn't be too much to ask for.  

Edited May 23, 2023 by delekkerste

[delekkerste]

The one suggestion I would have for Bill is to make it possible to see more than just the 18 or 24 or however many listings per page there were on CAF Live (you can see up to 54 pieces on one page on the regular CAF site), as it was exhausting clicking through the 169 pages of listings for the Saturday drop. On Sunday, I resorted to just searching by art type so all the commissions were excluded, which helped cut down on the search time, but, it would be great to have less pages to click through next time around.  

[cstojano]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:37 AM, delekkerste said:

The one suggestion I would have for Bill is to make it possible to see more than just the 18 or 24 or however many listings per page there were on CAF Live (you can see up to 54 pieces on one page on the regular CAF site), as it was exhausting clicking through the 169 pages of listings for the Saturday drop. On Sunday, I resorted to just searching by art type so all the commissions were excluded, which helped cut down on the search time, but, it would be great to have less pages to click through next time around.  

Yeah I had the same suggestion, or go full Hakes.com with an ALL selection. It's pretty amazing how your brain can fast scroll through images and immediately detect things you are looking for. 

My other thought was to limit booths to something like 5 pieces, perhaps not enough selection but the total number of pieces was quite high to scroll through. I was half tempted to post something at 1 million dollars just to get it to page 1 and hopefully drive traffic to my other listings.

Edited May 23, 2023 by cstojano

[Sideshow Bob]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:55 AM, cstojano said:

Yeah I had the same suggestion, or go full Hakes.com with an ALL selection. It's pretty amazing how your brain can fast scroll through images and immediately detect things you are looking for. 

My other thought was to limit booths to something like 5 pieces, perhaps not enough selection but the total number of pieces was quite high to scroll through. I was half tempted to post something at 1 million dollars just to get it to page 1 and hopefully drive traffic to my other listings.

Everyone knows you never go full Hakes. ComicConnect....200 per page. HA...maybe 100 per page with the popups. ComicLink...ok, do 50 per page. But Hakes? HAKES? Oh no. You never go full Hakes.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Sideshow Bob

[KirbyCollector]

I would love to see the metadata behind CAL... would make for one hell of a talk by Bill

Edited May 23, 2023 by KirbyCollector

[cstojano]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:46 AM, Sideshow Bob said:

Everyone knows you never go full Hakes. ComicConnect....200 per page. HA...maybe 100 per page with the popups. ComicLink...ok, do 50 per page. But Hakes? HAKES? Oh no. You never go full Hakes.

Like I said, my brain can easily scroll through the Harry Truman political pins they seem to auction so many of ;)

Also, then you can control-F the page. 

[Brian Peck]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:37 AM, delekkerste said:

The one suggestion I would have for Bill is to make it possible to see more than just the 18 or 24 or however many listings per page there were on CAF Live (you can see up to 54 pieces on one page on the regular CAF site), as it was exhausting clicking through the 169 pages of listings for the Saturday drop. On Sunday, I resorted to just searching by art type so all the commissions were excluded, which helped cut down on the search time, but, it would be great to have less pages to click through next time around.  

I would like to get rid of the pieces with zero value in searches. That should be an easy thing for Bill to filter.