"Why Collect Foreign Comics?" panel debut from HotKey Comics at MC3 Sunday May 21st 4 4

[HotKey]

I had the honor and pleasure of presenting my panel, "Why Collect Foreign Comics?" at MC3 over the weekend for the first time! I had a lot of fun and already am talking to other cons to bring this to more places as well. Give it a watch and let me know what you think! All feedback welcome, thanks and I hope you enjoy it!

Why collect foreign comics?

[Ken Aldred]

I’m a British collector and I’ve always liked foreign comics. Two of my favourites are a couple of obscure foreign publishers called Marvel and DC.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Ken Aldred

[rakehell]

Ok. Less than two minutes in and I'm already getting worked up. 

UK pence price variants are NOT foreign editions, specifically because they were part of the original US print run AND they have a US cents indicia. The inside pages of these books are exactly the same as the regular cents books because they were all part of the same run. They were not printed separately for UK distribution. A small portion was skimmed from the run to go inside the variant covers, which were also part of the original print run, but with a single alteration. The only difference is the price point on the cover (and only on the cover). 

Sorry. I'll calm down in a minute. I think I need a cookie or something.

Looking forward to the other 47 minutes! 

[Ken Aldred]

On 5/24/2023 at 11:49 AM, rakehell said:

Ok. Less than two minutes in and I'm already getting worked up. 

UK pence price variants are NOT foreign editions, specifically because they were part of the original US print run AND they have a US cents indicia. The inside pages of these books are exactly the same as the regular cents books because they were all part of the same run. They were not printed separately for UK distribution. A small portion was skimmed from the run to go inside the variant covers, which were also part of the original print run, but with a single alteration. The only difference is the price point on the cover (and only on the cover). 

Sorry. I'll calm down in a minute. I think I need a cookie or something.

Looking forward to the other 47 minutes! 

There’s also the story I’ve heard that the pence copies were run off first and so tend to have better colours than a lot of the cent copies toward the end of that initial printing.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Ken Aldred

[HotKey]

Yeah I know everyone will not necessarily agree with everything I state, especially the first part lol, but all I can say is that it seems to be the growing consensus among foreign collectors I buy and sell from, with a few exceptions. I just stand by my passport statement and I'm always up for good discussions around stuff like this with foreign editions 

I'm presenting it again the end of June and I'm in different stages of talks with several other conventions to present it, so I am always up for trying to tweak it and improve it!

[rakehell]

On 5/24/2023 at 12:28 PM, HotKey said:

Yeah I know everyone will not necessarily agree with everything I state

It's ok. I've been to my safe place & I'm calm again. 

I've watched the rest & I have to say I appreciate your enthusiasm & I agree with almost everything else in your discussion. Also, I'm grateful for the attention you're giving to this particular warren-ful of rabbit holes. Well done, sir.

From a personal perspective, I find comics with original foreign content at least as interesting as foreign editions of Marvel/DC/Charlton/etc. You never know what kind of weirdness you'll find. As an example, have a look at the Brazilian Golden Age Conan stories.

There's an entry on here about them somewhere...

Again, good discussion, though the volume was a bit patchy. 

[rakehell]

On 5/24/2023 at 12:19 PM, Ken Aldred said:

There’s also the story I’ve heard that the pence copies were run off first and so tend to have better colours than a lot of the cent copies toward the end of that initial printing.

I've heard that too, but I'm skeptical. I doubt they'd be able to maintain that as a full-time procedure. I'm sure it happened a fair amount of the time, but I bet it also didn't happen an equal amount of the time. 

[FoggyNelson]

Foreign comics are cool , an compared th the original, they are cheap‼️👍

[steve566]

Very few in the foreign comic community that I know consider pence variants foreign editions... They along with Canadian and Australian PV's are great to collect with foreign editions but they are simply price variants.. nothing else.. The books are the exact same except for the price, same cover, same language, same ads. 

[HotKey]

On 5/25/2023 at 2:58 PM, steve566 said:

Very few in the foreign comic community that I know consider pence variants foreign editions... They along with Canadian and Australian PV's are great to collect with foreign editions but they are simply price variants.. nothing else.. The books are the exact same except for the price, same cover, same language, same ads. 

I did have a more in depth explanation on this in the panel, but it felt like it may come across as speaking against a group of people within foreign comics, so I took it out, but I'll do my best to replicate it here. I want to stress I'm not trying to speak bad about any of the history in foreign comics, these are just my observations, but I know it can come across in a negative way, despite it not being my intention or belief.

So we can all agree foreign editions have changed a lot the last few years, especially with the amount of people who collect them.

For a long time, the foreign comic community was much smaller and very close for the most part, and over the course of the last 20 years that group had many discussions and debates around foreigns and various classifications and terms including on these forums, including pence and other price variants, and largely decided that they were not foreign editions, and that was mostly the accepted consensus at the time because of how small the group was and how much influence was wielded by them and their opinions. I think a fair estimation of the size of this group is around 100 people. 

Today, I think its fair to say at least 1,000 people are collecting foreign editions, if not more. What that has done is bring in 10x the amount of opinions, and most of these newer collectors seem to be approaching the foreign comic classification issue with a much simpler approach, not really seeming to care to get into the nuances that were more prominent in the earlier  discussions. These are largely the collectors that I am interacting with on IG, WhatNot, Mercari and in person at conventions, as most of the foreign collectors who have been around already have their own contacts in other countries.

The discussions I have with these newer collectors to foreign comics, and the ones I hear about, are pretty much what I try to present in the panel. I know some of the collectors who have been around a while disagree, but you also have to realize that what was once the accepted majority opinion of the community has quickly become a minority opinion, simply because of how many new people are in the community now and these newer collectors not agreeing with some of the previous conclusions the original group had come to. Just like Hulk 180 & 181, there will always be debate around this one though. 

 

 

[valiantman]

Because the majority of collectors don't know the difference between foreign editions and foreign price variants, I think the safest thing to do in educating the masses is to clarify which editions with non-U.S.-pricing are reprints and which are originals.

Much like U.S. comics, and books, and sportscards, etc., the difference between an ORIGINAL (same date as the U.S. version) and a REPRINT (later date) is far more important than whether a book is considered a "foreign edition" or a "foreign price variant".

Adding to the confusion are the collectors/dealers who (wrongly) insisted that EVERY non-U.S. version of a U.S. comic is automatically a reprint of some kind, when I was first learning from those "experts" 35+ years ago.

Edited May 26, 2023 by valiantman

[valiantman]

There's a huge difference to collectors between:

"We didn't know if they would sell very well in another market, but we printed a few at the same time."

and

"We knew it was a good seller, so we got it reprinted for other countries a few months (or years) later."

Edited May 26, 2023 by valiantman

[GermanFan]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:52 PM, FoggyNelson said:

Foreign comics are cool , an compared th the original, they are cheap‼️👍

Some are cheap. But many are escalating pricewise. For instance the UK Locker Planet Comics from the 50s, or the Arnold ECs Hof 1 and TftC 1. 

[HotKey]

On 5/26/2023 at 1:52 AM, valiantman said:

 

Much like U.S. comics, and books, and sportscards, etc., the difference between an ORIGINAL (same date as the U.S. version) and a REPRINT (later date) is far more important than whether a book is considered a "foreign edition" or a "foreign price variant".

 

I disagree with this position. I believe the date in other countries is irrelevant for classification. Just like other books and literature, when it is printed for the first time in that country, regardless of what other countries have done prior, and regardless of exactly when it is printed, that is the first edition for that country.

There are even a few rare examples where a foreign edition actually predates the American 1st appearances. Are you going to call the American comics reprints in those situations?

[Lazyboy]

On 5/25/2023 at 1:58 PM, steve566 said:

Very few in the foreign comic community that I know consider pence variants foreign editions... They along with Canadian and Australian PV's are great to collect with foreign editions but they are simply price variants.. nothing else.. The books are the exact same except for the price, same cover, same language, same ads. 

No, they aren't.

[Lazyboy]

On 5/26/2023 at 6:39 AM, Fraggy said:

They're not editions, they're reprints 

Foreign licensed reprints, made by some other publisher in some other country.

[Lazyboy]

On 5/25/2023 at 9:50 PM, HotKey said:

I did have a more in depth explanation on this in the panel, but it felt like it may come across as speaking against a group of people within foreign comics, so I took it out, but I'll do my best to replicate it here. I want to stress I'm not trying to speak bad about any of the history in foreign comics, these are just my observations, but I know it can come across in a negative way, despite it not being my intention or belief.

So we can all agree foreign editions have changed a lot the last few years, especially with the amount of people who collect them.

For a long time, the foreign comic community was much smaller and very close for the most part, and over the course of the last 20 years that group had many discussions and debates around foreigns and various classifications and terms including on these forums, including pence and other price variants, and largely decided that they were not foreign editions, and that was mostly the accepted consensus at the time because of how small the group was and how much influence was wielded by them and their opinions. I think a fair estimation of the size of this group is around 100 people. 

Today, I think its fair to say at least 1,000 people are collecting foreign editions, if not more. What that has done is bring in 10x the amount of opinions, and most of these newer collectors seem to be approaching the foreign comic classification issue with a much simpler approach, not really seeming to care to get into the nuances that were more prominent in the earlier  discussions. These are largely the collectors that I am interacting with on IG, WhatNot, Mercari and in person at conventions, as most of the foreign collectors who have been around already have their own contacts in other countries.

The discussions I have with these newer collectors to foreign comics, and the ones I hear about, are pretty much what I try to present in the panel. I know some of the collectors who have been around a while disagree, but you also have to realize that what was once the accepted majority opinion of the community has quickly become a minority opinion, simply because of how many new people are in the community now and these newer collectors not agreeing with some of the previous conclusions the original group had come to. Just like Hulk 180 & 181, there will always be debate around this one though. 

 

 

Nobody cares how a tiny, self-interested group tries to redefine things they like or things that are kind of similar to things they like.

[valiantman]

On 5/26/2023 at 6:13 AM, HotKey said:

On 5/26/2023 at 12:52 AM, valiantman said:

 

Much like U.S. comics, and books, and sportscards, etc., the difference between an ORIGINAL (same date as the U.S. version) and a REPRINT (later date) is far more important than whether a book is considered a "foreign edition" or a "foreign price variant".

 

I disagree with this position. I believe the date in other countries is irrelevant for classification.

So, you think that a 1997 reprint of Amazing Fantasy #15 on its 35th U.S. anniversary in Imaginaristan (the first foreign edition in Imaginaristan) should be as important to foreign edition collectors as the 1962 Amazing Fantasy #15 pence?

[HotKey]

On 5/26/2023 at 10:23 AM, valiantman said:

So, you think that a 1997 reprint of Amazing Fantasy #15 on its 35th U.S. anniversary in Imaginaristan (the first foreign edition in Imaginaristan) should be as important to foreign edition collectors as the 1962 Amazing Fantasy #15 pence?

Not as important obviously, but not viewed as a reprint either, much like the recent Russian influx of popular covers the last few years. Nobody is chasing the ASM 300 one like the Philippines one, but most are still viewing it for what it is, the 1st edition/printing of the ASM 300 cover in Russia.

[valiantman]

On 5/26/2023 at 9:49 AM, HotKey said:

Not as important obviously, but not viewed as a reprint either, much like the recent Russian influx of popular covers the last few years. Nobody is chasing the ASM 300 one like the Philippines one, but most are still viewing it for what it is, the 1st edition/printing of the ASM 300 cover in Russia.

Gotcha. I think that's a type of "why collect foreign comics" that doesn't appeal to me, which is why I've been confused.

Since books have been collected for hundreds of years, the basis of comic book collecting is found in "first edition" book collecting. The first time Generic-Superhero-Person (from 1930s to present) appears anywhere in a story (not an advertisement) is important because the first time Frankenstein's monster "appears" (is written) anywhere in a story was so important two hundred years ago.

Being "closer to the beginning" is my primary goal as a comic collector (after asking whether I care about the subject at all), and generally "closer to the beginning" is the primary goal of all book collectors. When the book was printed is far more important than where, with the difference between "first" and "second" completely based on the time and not place.

In other words, my questions as a collector are prioritized as:

1) WHO - do I care about the character/subject?

2) WHEN - how close is it to the beginning/origin of the subject?

3) WHAT - is it a thing that I collect (book vs. card vs. toy vs. advertisement)?

I don't ask "WHERE" unless the first 3 priorities are satisfied.

However, when the answers are 1) YES, 2) EARLIEST, and 3) YES, then foreign items can become equal to domestic for this collector, and the top answers to WHY are 1) Because I care, 2) It's the earliest, and 3) I collect them.

Edited May 26, 2023 by valiantman