To Pedigree or not to Pedigree? 0

[TheBigJ]

Always looking to upgrade a book in my collection (registry set). I've recently discovered a pedigree copy of a book CGC 9.8, which I also have in CGC 9.8 - no pedigree. Sweet! I think to myself as I check out the book further. Book looks good, nice wrap, freshly graded, and OW-White pages. Hmmmm. My book has White pages. The ol' mantra "Buy The Book, not the Grade" comes to mind. Which I adhere to even moreso in the fact I don't even like sig books for the most part because I feel the book has been "damaged/altered" to some degree. To each his own I guess.

I know sig books go for more $$ and get a registry bump as well. I'm not sure what value pedigree adds to either $$ or registry points. Not sure that I care as I feel book is the book, not the pedigree.

I've decided I'm not going to pursue this pedigree. 

Reasonable or crazy? 

Regards

 

[sfcityduck]

Sounds smart.  

The only pedigrees that warrant a price boost are ones that (1) have some significant history associated with them (Okajima, maybe SF or Promise), (2) some real comic book collecting history associated with them (Cosmic Aeroplane and Mile High), or (3) some association that is cool or interesting to comic collectors (Gaines File Copies, Pay Copies, etc.).  Why?  Because a "pedigree" in comic collecting is nothing more than a pre-internet and pre-CGC concept developed to provide buyers with some reassurance that the books they were buying through the mail really would be as nice as they were described.  It was a form of reputational security.  We don't need that any more because you can get high definition pics or already graded comics.  The "pedigree" concept for comics is largely obsolete -- unless there's a good story associated with it. (In the fine art world, a "pedigree" is a different concept - a chain of ownership that can establish a painting is not a forgery or was painted by a particular artist). For most comic pedigrees, especially modern ones, the backstories don't warrant a price increase.  The concept really just means "big collection."  Worse, my best surmise is that for some pedigrees, the backstory is largely confined to kid buys a lot of comics, keeps them without reading them much, decades later a dealer buys them from the kid or his family for pennies on the dollar in an unconscionable transaction, and dealer then hides identity of the OO in order to make sure that no one ever contacts the OO.  That's not an association which makes me want to pay a premium.

As for "registry points," so what?  The very best collections aren't registered and may never be.  

Call me a cynic.  

For an equivalent or lesser price, buy the best book unless there's a super compelling reason not to.

Edited May 24, 2023 by sfcityduck

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Depends on the book.

Depends on the Pedigree.

[Sharonky]

Hello ! 

Your decision not to seek the book copy is entirely reasonable and a matter of personal preference. Collecting comics, especially when it comes to record series, involves individual choices and priorities. While some collectors value a book's pedigree and its potential impact on its value or record points, others prioritize condition, quality, or personal attachment to the book itself.

You have stated that you adhere to the mantra "Buy the book, not the quality," which indicates that you focus on the content and condition of the book rather than external factors such as signatures or pedigrees. In addition, your reluctance to buy signed books because of perceived alteration or damage to the book is consistent with your preference for unaltered copies.

Ultimately, it is important to collect in a way that brings you joy and satisfaction. If the pedigree does not significantly enhance your enjoyment or match your collecting preferences, it is perfectly reasonable to decide not to pursue it. Trust your instincts and continue to build your collection based on what resonates with you.

[MAR1979]

I have pedigrees but would never pay extra for one. Although I guess if I have the dough for a decent Edgar Church I might think different  

Edited May 24, 2023 by MAR1979

[BlowUpTheMoon]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:48 PM, TheBigJ said:

Book looks good, nice wrap, freshly graded, and OW-White pages. Hmmmm. My book has White pages.

I'm guessing it's a Savannah. 

[MAR1979]

On 5/24/2023 at 7:08 PM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

I'm guessing it's a Savannah. 

Or Oakland. From my own raw submitting and general interest over the years my estimate is only 1 maybe 1.5 out of 4 has WP's.   Although I know of many an occasion where re-submitting a book for signature can earn a page quality bump up. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by MAR1979

[Robot Man]

On 5/24/2023 at 4:05 PM, MAR1979 said:

I have pedigrees but would never pay extra for one. Although I guess if I have the dough for a decent Edgar Church I might think different  

Oh, I have happily paid up for a few Okajimas, Larsons, SFs and an Allentown. As well as a couple multiples of guide for a small stack of Church copies from Chuckie back in the late ‘70’s. No regrets on my part…

[southern cross]

I just looked at my TTA pedigrees and 11 of the 28 have white pages. A few of the off-white to white page books are in a older label. These are silver age pedigrees and I bought them at the time because silver age pedigrees were worth the same as a non pedigree in the same grade. So I thought it was a free bonus myself so why I bought them.

The white page books come from the following pedigrees.

Boston, Rocky mountain, Susha news and Twin cities.

There's no bonus to registry points for pedigrees. 

And if the OP isn't trying to put together a run of pedigrees and just likes to get a 9.8. Your 9.8 white page non pedigree sounds like a sweet book and I'd call victory and not look at another copy.

[MAR1979]

Regarding WP and OW/WP  this is something that should be a pretty exact measurement. Yet many submitter's receive WP on books they have measured as being OW/W and OW/W on books that were White.   Optical tech is more than advanced enough to do this determination without having to have to rely on a human's opinion. 

I do not understand is why many collectors who  "Buy the book, Not the Flip (Label)" incongruously take the CGC page quality designation as Gospel. 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by MAR1979

[Robot Man]

On 5/24/2023 at 9:41 PM, southern cross said:

I just looked at my TTA pedigrees and 11 of the 28 have white pages. A few of the off-white to white page books are in a older label. These are silver age pedigrees and I bought them at the time because silver age pedigrees were worth the same as a non pedigree in the same grade. So I thought it was a free bonus myself so why I bought them.

The white page books come from the following pedigrees.

Boston, Rocky mountain, Susha news and Twin cities.

There's no bonus to registry points for pedigrees. 

And if the OP isn't trying to put together a run of pedigrees and just likes to get a 9.8. Your 9.8 white page non pedigree sounds like a sweet book and I'd call victory and not look at another copy.

A 9.8 with white pages just does not get any better pedigree or not. At this point just move on and find other books you need.

By the way, in my opinion, from working in the printing industry all my life, there is no such thing. Newsprint is about the cheapest paper made. Brand new off the roll it isn’t technically white. Off white at best.

The whitest pages I have ever seen were Salidas and Church. (I can only speak to GA) and these are technically not “white”. 

[Lazyboy]

On 5/25/2023 at 9:36 AM, MAR1979 said:

Regarding WP and OW/WP  this is something that should be a pretty exact measurement. Yet many submitter's receive WP on books they have measured as being OW/W and OW/W on books that were White.   Optical tech is more than advanced enough to do this determination without having to have to rely on a human's opinion. 

Okay... but it's Page Quality, not Page Color.

[MAR1979]

On 5/25/2023 at 5:08 PM, Lazyboy said:

Okay... but it's Page Quality, not Page Color.

you are correct. However they only list the color aspect not IMHO more meaningful things for an encased paper comic book like PH numbers   

BTW the page quality review is merely a quick look at the color. CGC is not conducting any truly valuable analysis such measuring acid levels - which of course involves taking a sample which would be bad. Thus I conclude it really should be called paper color and pretty much if newsprint was used then it truly cant be White anyhow.

100% agree with below.

On 5/25/2023 at 10:52 AM, Robot Man said:

By the way, in my opinion, from working in the printing industry all my life, there is no such thing. Newsprint is about the cheapest paper made. Brand new off the roll it isn’t technically white. Off white at best.

The whitest pages I have ever seen were Salidas and Church. (I can only speak to GA) and these are technically not “white”. 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by MAR1979

[LearnedHand]

If the motivation is the current Stockholm syndrome, where the mentality is much more about “ROI” and bragging rights of owing even a lesser copy simply because it’s from a designer collection (rather than a love of the actual material), then yes, absolutely!

Pedigree designation:  feel ensuring the history and identification of any meaningful collection is important, but calling this “pedigree” (rather than, perhaps, provenance) is sort of silly.  Also astonished how Rozanski charging Guide multiples - not because the MH was acknowledged as a so-called pedigree at the time, but because he felt the overall perfect condition of many of the books and related hobby excitement warranted the price - somehow forever fused, in some people’s minds, that “pedigree“ designation (irrespective of grade) is somehow synonymous with warranting a price premium. Greatest marketing campaign in the hobby. 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by LearnedHand