Jack Kirby's Son Comments On New Stan Lee Documentary 3 3

[Prince Namor]

Duh. Joe Simon did that. He handled the business end of things. That was what he DID. He facilitated work for other publishers. As far back as when he was an editor at Timely, he was packaging work (either that HE did or from freelancers he'd employ) for Harvey Comics. Similar situation at Crestwood. He made a package deal on the side and got caught using a story that'd been paid for with Crestwood.

OR had he?

When the accountants came in to look at things, it showed that Crestwood owed them $130,000.

They went to court over it, the judge ruled against Crestwood, they threatened to go out of business and file bankruptcy rather than pay it, and ended up settling for a measly $10,000. 

Who got screwed over?

[MasterChief]

On 6/30/2023 at 11:42 AM, Beastfeast said:

This thread has big old school CGC board energy going on. I like it. 

You got that right.

And for some inexplicable reason, this thread reminds me of Stan's (fake?) file copy collection.

[jdandns]

On 7/1/2023 at 6:32 AM, lordbyroncomics said:

Respectfully, why are we thinking or speculating based on vague, collective memories of things said in passing over the years? How is it a misquote when several quotes exist that have Stan explaining that he was "too busy" and even "so it saved me a lot of time so I could look at other things like the cover" etc etc etc etc

I continue to be surprised that so many guys are entering this conversation with speculative bullets instead of real ones. Your first sentence invalidates anything else you wrote since the quotes exist.

Stan got his plots from Kirby. Which is why- careful, we've got more proof for the frantic ones- there exist stories in the 50s' that Kirby did alone that are repeated in Marvel books just a few years later. 

Jerry Bails asked Stan Lee for an example of one of his plots for a fanzine. Stan hurriedly sent him the FF plot which was a Puppet Master story. Stan made an unfortunate error in picking this plot and putting his name on it. Because it's the same story that Jack did in 1951 in Black Magic. So yeah- Stan isn't chatting up anyone on the phone. That's a myth. Stan Goldberg and MR. Ayers both said independently that Stan expected them to plot. Al Jaffee said the same. Romita Sr. said his "plot" would be: "next month- The Rhino"

Come prepared with quotes, not "i think what they said was..." 

 

Wow, so Stan Lee even wrote the stories Jack Kirby drew as far back in 1951? That's crazy!

[Ken Aldred]

On 7/1/2023 at 3:56 PM, jimjum12 said:

for example, the Jimmy Olsen vampire .... to me, that is just another example of some of the half baked spoon that Jack was producing by himself at DC. I didn't even bother buying that junk

I like a lot of Kirby’s Fourth World books, but Jimmy Olsen soon went completely off the rails.

The cover was off-putting enough…

[shadroch]

Kirby does a story solo and it is quickly forgotten. Years later he recycles the story only this time his proofreader weaves it into gold.  Who is the talent here?

[jimjum12]

On 7/1/2023 at 11:58 AM, shadroch said:

On 7/1/2023 at 11:29 AM, jimjum12 said:

You get it. 

Stan made it cool to be a comic geek. I guess Stan was our Fagan, at least some of us. He made it easy for a bunch of nerdy misfits to feel as if they belonged to something cool. GOD BLESS ... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

.... on the other hand, I was DEVASTATED when Kirby left Marvel. 

I was actually devastated when he returned to Marvel.   Stan announced The Return of The King and I'm thinking Marvel signed a deal to produce The Lord Of The Rings.   

It was pretty obvious to me that Kirby wouldn't fit in with the younger writers and artists that dominated Marvel in the mid-1970s. 

Amazing how a change of  "proof readers" can change the final story. 

I was spared from Kirby's return, as I was in my cars and girls phase by then. Jack will always be my hero, but no-one stays at the top. I really wish he'd lived a bit longer ... back then I didn't realize how young 75 is. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[sledgehammer]

On 7/1/2023 at 7:47 PM, jimjum12 said:

I was spared from Kirby's return, as I was in my cars and girls phase by then. Jack will always be my hero, but no-one stays at the top.

For Kirby's big return cover, John Romita needed to make Captain America's face palatable.

We saw why on the cover about 4 months later.

Between Frank Robbins, and Jack Kirby, Captain America's destruction is one of my worst childhood memories.

[jimjum12]

On 7/1/2023 at 9:03 PM, sledgehammer said:

For Kirby's big return cover, John Romita needed to make Captain America's face palatable.

We saw why on the cover about 4 months later.

Between Frank Robbins, and Jack Kirby, Captain America's destruction is one of my worst childhood memories.

.... I think he was frustrated by the direction comics were headed and overcompensated. He had formidable competition for the first time in a while. The 70's were the decade of those who were lovingly referred to as the "young turks", Adams, Starlin, Wrightson, BWS, etc. Jack owned the 60's, although two artists who I felt were very instrumental in fleshing out the style of "The House Of Marvel" were Romita and Buscema ... they really set the tone for the upcoming 70's and get very little kudos for it. The Thomas/Buscema and the Thomas/Adams AVENGERS were some of the best comics I ever read. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Nick Furious]

Someone in this thread mentioned Roy telling Kirby that his dialogue was lousy.  I hope Roy wasn't the first person to tell him that.  His friends weren't doing him any favors by holding back.  Kirby's dialogue was typically lousy.  

[Ken Aldred]

On 7/2/2023 at 2:03 AM, sledgehammer said:

 

Between Frank Robbins, and Jack Kirby, Captain America's destruction is one of my worst childhood memories.

At least Kirby redeemed himself with the brilliant Devil Dinosaur.

On 7/2/2023 at 2:17 AM, jimjum12 said:

.... I think he was frustrated by the direction comics were headed and overcompensated. He had formidable competition for the first time in a while. The 70's were the decade of those who were lovingly referred to as the "young turks", Adams, Starlin, Wrightson, BWS, etc. Jack owned the 60's, 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Robbins was another old school artist with a style looking quite dated even back in the 70s, but that didn't stop him from getting a surprisingly large amount of work at Marvel during this period.

[Steven Valdez]

On 7/2/2023 at 12:03 PM, Ken Aldred said:

At least Kirby redeemed himself with the brilliant Devil Dinosaur.

Robbins was another old school artist with a style looking quite dated even back in the 70s, but that didn't stop him from getting a surprisingly large amount of work at Marvel during this period.

Robbins was universally reviled, except by Roy Thomas it seemed. Imagine if The Invaders had been illustrated by John Buscema instead... or even Sal Buscema.

[Steven Valdez]

On 7/2/2023 at 5:10 AM, MasterChief said:

You got that right.

And for some inexplicable reason, this thread reminds me of Stan's (fake?) file copy collection.

What??? What's that all about then?

[Steven Valdez]

On 7/2/2023 at 9:08 AM, Ken Aldred said:

I like a lot of Kirby’s Fourth World books, but Jimmy Olsen soon went completely off the rails.

The cover was off-putting enough…

Jack Kirby is one of my favourite people in history, so I have no desire to slight the man. But I do wonder about the state of his mental health in the '70s.

[Larryw7]

Yeah, it's a shame that Kirby never came up with brilliant concepts like Stripperella.

[Steven Valdez]

On 7/2/2023 at 3:25 PM, Larryw7 said:

Yeah, it's a shame that Kirby never came up with brilliant concepts like Stripperella.

Well, Jack did have Galaxy Green, so it might be time to stop playing the Stripperella card.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Steven Valdez

[Ken Aldred]

On 7/2/2023 at 6:50 AM, Steven Valdez said:

Well, Jack did have Galaxy Green, so they're even on that score.

Then there’s always his most inspired and sensible character, Paranex, the Fighting Fetus.

[Nick Furious]

On 7/2/2023 at 12:25 AM, Larryw7 said:

Yeah, it's a shame that Kirby never came up with brilliant concepts like Stripperella

 

On 7/2/2023 at 12:50 AM, Steven Valdez said:

Well, Jack did have Galaxy Green, so it might be time to stop playing the Stripperella card.

 

On 7/2/2023 at 4:22 AM, Ken Aldred said:

Then there’s always his most inspired and sensible character, Paranex, the Fighting Fetus

The creators of Superman eventually followed up with Funnyman.  We might be headed down the path of judging an artist by their worst day. 

[Ken Aldred]

On 7/2/2023 at 3:12 PM, Nick Furious said:

 

 

The creators of Superman eventually followed up with Funnyman.  We might be headed down the path of judging an artist by their worst day. 

I’d never do that to a prolific genius like Kirby.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Ken Aldred

[Mmehdy]

Stan was a editor who took the writers fee with a one line lets do Doc Ock....Kirby the creative force, Stan was the promo!

[jdandns]

I mean, most of their comics were pretty bad.