Edgar Church Mile high penciled dates on cover. 1 1

[Frisco Larson]

On 8/20/2024 at 8:39 PM, RareHighGrade said:

Agreed.  In countless instances, I've found that there is no comparison between the Church copy and a similarly graded non-pedigree copy.  This is why I will often pay more for a Church copy than for a higher graded non-pedigree copy. 

I sold this copy to a buddy of mine, but I found that I still have this pic. This is an example of how fresh a technically mid-grade copy of a Church book can and usually is! I broke it out and it's just gorgeous!!! It has a small piece off the bottom back cover, (think big bindery chip-ish) which was the biggest reason for the lower grade (with a small water mark at the bottom right corner). I checked and most of the other Excitings around this numbering were 9.4 in grade. Honestly, being able to examine the book raw is probably the thing that sold the book to my friend! We've both had some Church copies before (raw copies too) and when you get a raw one in your hands ... well it makes other circulated comics pale in comparison. I remember John telling me that a few Church Caps in the mid 50s numbering were only mid-grade for one reason or another. They're out there ...

[tth2]

On 8/21/2024 at 12:57 AM, adamstrange said:

The comics and pulps did not sell for peanuts, as can be verified with in the Heritage archives.

Thanks, this was my recollection too, which is why I was confused by Robot Man's comment.

If anything, I recall that there was some serious punishment bidding going on during the floor auction, once various competitors figured out the pricing formula that was being used by a big bidder and started pushing him to his max bid on each lot.

 

[tth2]

Unless he's saying that Heritage bought the books (or the right to the books) from McLaughlin's heirs for peanuts, and then sold them as proprietary inventory.

[adamstrange]

On 8/21/2024 at 12:03 AM, tth2 said:

Unless he's saying that Heritage bought the books (or the right to the books) from McLaughlin's heirs for peanuts, and then sold them as proprietary inventory.

I was told the books were consigned, hence the oddity of Heritage paying for slabbing simply to generate better commissions.

[Robot Man]

On 8/20/2024 at 9:57 AM, adamstrange said:

He died intestate and I'm pretty sure there was more than one heir.  Heritage dealt with the probate judge who didn't understand this "slabbin thing", which is why only a subset of his Church books were slabbed (at Heritage's expense).

The comics and pulps did not sell for peanuts, as can be verified with in the Heritage archives.

Sometimes due to the long time I have been involved in this hobby, things can get a bit muddy. But it was my understanding that at first the sister was selling a lot of stuff to private parties without much understanding to value. Perhaps someone educated her as to the value of using HA.

I know, in addition to an amazing collection of comics, pulp and art, he had a world class collection of first edition books, movie posters and other art. What happened to this material? 

[Robot Man]

On 8/20/2024 at 7:56 PM, Frisco Larson said:

I sold this copy to a buddy of mine, but I found that I still have this pic. This is an example of how fresh a technically mid-grade copy of a Church book can and usually is! I broke it out and it's just gorgeous!!! It has a small piece off the bottom back cover, (think big bindery chip-ish) which was the biggest reason for the lower grade (with a small water mark at the bottom right corner). I checked and most of the other Excitings around this numbering were 9.4 in grade. Honestly, being able to examine the book raw is probably the thing that sold the book to my friend! We've both had some Church copies before (raw copies too) and when you get a raw one in your hands ... well it makes other circulated comics pale in comparison. I remember John telling me that a few Church Caps in the mid 50s numbering were only mid-grade for one reason or another. They're out there ...

Very true. Holding a raw Church in your hands is an amazing experience. The structure, color, gloss and white pages makes you feel like it just came off the press.

When these first came to market, they truly redefined what the term “mint” meant. Chuck wanted multiples of guide because he knew this. Sure, there are comparable copies out there but no other collection across the board compares. You just don’t get this with a slabbed copy. 

[buttock]

On 8/20/2024 at 8:17 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

This Super-Magician copy looks pretty fresh in hand, at least in the slab.

If the story is about Burrell Rowe's books being stored in a shed, those were supposedly the Fiction House runs (and possibly others because those weren't the only ones he owned). 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superhero/super-magician-comics-vol-3-4-mile-high-pedigree-street-and-smith-1944-cgc-fn-55-cream-to-off-white-pages-strange-cove/a/13041-17849.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superhero/super-magician-comics-vol-3-4-mile-high-pedigree-street-and-smith-1944-cgc-fn-55-cream-to-off-white-pages-strange-cove/a/13041-17849.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superhero/super-magician-comics-vol-5-7-mile-high-pedigree-street-and-smith-1946-cgc-vg-45-cream-to-off-white-pages-red-dragon-c/a/13041-17850.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515

For years we were told that the Church FH books were poorly stored in Rowe's garage, then the runs of Jungle and Planet came out nearly complete and were immaculate.  Huge chunks of Jumbo and Fight have been sold, all typical Church quality.  So whoever continues to perpetuate that rumor is flat out lying at this point.  

[buttock]

On 8/20/2024 at 9:50 AM, Robot Man said:

The “cat pee” story is real. I witnessed it first hand on a visit to John McLaughlin’s house. There were piles of unbagged GA books all over the living room floor. There was a pile of Chesslers with an obvious stain on a bunch of them. John had a house full of cats that had full reign of the house. They clawed up the furniture and peed and pooped where they wanted. He didn’t seem to care much. 

 

On 8/20/2024 at 6:24 PM, october said:

I own one of those Cheslers and, while I would love it if the story'd been debunked...yeah...this stain ain't water.

 

Here's Redbeard's argument against the cat pee theory.  He and Dave Smith claim John never had a cat.  

 

Edited August 21 by buttock

[Crowzilla]

On 8/21/2024 at 10:44 AM, Robot Man said:

I know, in addition to an amazing collection of comics, pulp and art, he had a world class collection of first edition books, movie posters and other art. What happened to this material? 

Much of it was sold through Heritage (sometimes identified, sometimes not).  The R47 Dracula three-sheet Heritage sold was from his collection and not identified, while many of his top paintings by Ward, Brundage, Bergey, and the like were all identified as being from his estate.

[MrBedrock]

On 8/21/2024 at 10:53 AM, buttock said:

For years we were told that the Church FH books were poorly stored in Rowe's garage, then the runs of Jungle and Planet came out nearly complete and were immaculate.  Huge chunks of Jumbo and Fight have been sold, all typical Church quality.  So whoever continues to perpetuate that rumor is flat out lying at this point.  

I haven't perpetuated the rumor, but I did start it. A local store owner bought the ends of Burrel's Jungle and Jumbo runs, and well as some Ka-angas from Burrel's son. Supposedly all Church books. I saw them about twenty years ago. They were very brown. The guy still has them.

Edited August 21 by MrBedrock

[MrBedrock]

[sfcityduck]

On 8/21/2024 at 8:55 AM, buttock said:

 

Here's Redbeard's argument against the cat pee theory.  He and Dave Smith claim John never had a cat. 

 

So you're making this a Robot Man v. Redbeard fight? A friend fight? 

I'm going with Robot Man's recollection on this one given that the next post after the one you link has pics of cat pee books and another testimonial by an eyenosewitness to the pee smell.

Edited August 21 by sfcityduck

[buttock]

On 8/21/2024 at 3:36 PM, sfcityduck said:

So you're making this a Robot Man v. Redbeard fight? A friend fight? 

I'm going with Robot Man's recollection on this one given that the next post after the one you link has pics of cat pee books and another testimonial by an eyenosewitness to the pee smell.

No.  I'm just posting what others have said.  No need for a "fight".  I can find petty drama elsewhere. 

[buttock]

On 8/21/2024 at 3:25 PM, MrBedrock said:

I haven't perpetuated the rumor, but I did start it. A local store owner bought the ends of Burrel's Jungle and Jumbo runs, and well as some Ka-angas from Burrel's son. Supposedly all Church books. I saw them about twenty years ago. They were very brown. The guy still has them.

Which ones?  There were some late number Jumbos in heritage recently, and their pedigree validation has been poor lately.  These were the horror issues.  

[AJD]

On 8/22/2024 at 7:25 AM, MrBedrock said:

I haven't perpetuated the rumor, but I did start it. A local store owner bought the ends of Burrel's Jungle and Jumbo runs, and well as some Ka-angas from Burrel's son. Supposedly all Church books. I saw them about twenty years ago. They were very brown. The guy still has them.

I'd always assumed that this book I own was one of the poorly stored FH copies, given the dust shadow down the spine. Then I found another Wings 98 in the Heritage archive, also labelled by CGC as a Church copy. Was there a duplicate? Has one of the books (likely mine) been mis-attributed?

[tth2]

On 8/22/2024 at 5:54 AM, buttock said:

On 8/22/2024 at 5:36 AM, sfcityduck said:

So you're making this a Robot Man v. Redbeard fight? A friend fight? 

I'm going with Robot Man's recollection on this one given that the next post after the one you link has pics of cat pee books and another testimonial by an eyenosewitness to the pee smell.

No.  I'm just posting what others have said.  No need for a "fight".  I can find petty drama elsewhere. 

To me, it's like listening to a bunch of old guys at the local American Legion or VFW clubhouse discussing/debating things from many decades ago.  They may fervently believe what they're saying, and you can learn a lot and be entertained, but I wouldn't bet the mortgage in reliance on their memories being perfect.

Edited August 22 by tth2

[Robot Man]

On 8/21/2024 at 9:20 PM, AJD said:

I'd always assumed that this book I own was one of the poorly stored FH copies, given the dust shadow down the spine. Then I found another Wings 98 in the Heritage archive, also labelled by CGC as a Church copy. Was there a duplicate? Has one of the books (likely mine) been mis-attributed?

Either one is mis-attributed or there were more than one copy of some in the collection. See my post a few back on my Jumbo. I can attest I bought it myself from Chuck at Casual Con. No idea why there is another copy with a Church designation on the census. 

[buttock]

On 8/21/2024 at 10:52 PM, tth2 said:

To me, it's like listening to a bunch of old guys at the local American Legion or VFW clubhouse discussing/debating things from many decades ago.  They may fervently believe what they're saying, and you can learn a lot and be entertained, but I wouldn't bet the mortgage in reliance on their memories being perfect.

Yeah.  Hard to reconcile.  That's why I think we stick to the facts that we can verify. 

1. SOME (not all) MH Cheslers have stains. 

2. SOME (not all) MH Super Magicians were stored poorly.  

3. SOME (a few, not all) late number (not all) Jumbo/Jungle/Ka'angas (not all Fiction House) were stored poorly. 

[buttock]

On 8/22/2024 at 8:56 AM, Robot Man said:

Either one is mis-attributed or there were more than one copy of some in the collection. See my post a few back on my Jumbo. I can attest I bought it myself from Chuck at Casual Con. No idea why there is another copy with a Church designation on the census. 

That also doesn't jive with the books that were showed to Mr. Bedrock.  Did you pick only that one out Bob, do you remember if the others were available?  I've always heard that one of the stipulations for Rowe fronting Chuck the money for the collection was that he got to keep all the FH books.  By the 50s there were rarely codes on the books, so it would be hard to identify without a chain of custody like you have.  

[Robot Man]

On 8/21/2024 at 2:36 PM, sfcityduck said:

So you're making this a Robot Man v. Redbeard fight? A friend fight? 

I'm going with Robot Man's recollection on this one given that the next post after the one you link has pics of cat pee books and another testimonial by an eyenosewitness to the pee smell.

Me and Redbeard fight?  we have been buddies longer than some of you have been alive and still are friends now. Neither one of us have any skin in the game. After 50 years or so, sometimes things get a little cloudy.

Fact is, there are some otherwise beautiful Chesslers with some kind of a stain. 

Maybe Edgar had a cat?