Newsstands and Direct Editions (finally) get a video explainer... Version 1.2 8 8

[MAR1979]

On 7/16/2023 at 6:30 PM, valiantman said:

It is not incorrect to say that Action Comics #1 is a newsstand comic.

You are correct,  but again who are you trying to help with your effort; the uneducated or the unscrupulous? 

Edited July 16, 2023 by MAR1979

[valiantman]

On 7/16/2023 at 5:24 PM, MAR1979 said:

June 1979 Marvel and Oct 1980 DC; those were the dates every book in those company line's (except for outliers, then later direct sale only) would have a both a direct sale and a newsstand counterpart. As has been mentioned by 3 in this thread some wrongly hyping, and oftimes with malice, "newsstand" for books that have no direct sale counterparts.

What you are presenting is correct, but it's not telling a vital part of the story as such makes seller misinformation, lies and fraud more likley to succeed. Thus doing more harm that the good you seek to do.

 

P.S. Please don't take feedback personally. I work for a Fortune 20 corporation where counterpoints and constructive criticisms are encouraged as it allows for a "better" resulting product

I don't think the point that is being made is valid enough for me to make the changes suggested.

In other words, your suggestion is "don't put the pepper in there" and I'm the chef. It has pepper.

[Pantodude]

On 7/16/2023 at 6:30 PM, valiantman said:

It is not incorrect to say that Action Comics #1 is a newsstand comic.

Perhaps just refer to those pre-direct books as having been sold on the newsstands, but not as "newsstand editions."  That's really the tricky part?  The reason being that it is the actual "newsstand editions," particularly of the late-1990s and later, that warrant the premium (and hence the interest in the distinction in the first place.)

Edited July 16, 2023 by Pantodude

[valiantman]

On 7/16/2023 at 5:32 PM, Pantodude said:

On 7/16/2023 at 5:30 PM, valiantman said:

It is not incorrect to say that Action Comics #1 is a newsstand comic.

Perhaps just refer to those pre-direct books as having been sold on the newsstands, but not as "newsstand editions."  That's really the tricky part?  

So the "offensive" word is actually "edition"? I have been reading all these comments as the offensive word being "newsstand".

[Pantodude]

On 7/16/2023 at 6:34 PM, valiantman said:

So the "offensive" word is actually "edition"? I have been reading all these comments as the offensive word being "newsstand".

ah, you didn't see my edit essentially clarifying that yes, that is the point!  thanks

[MAR1979]

On 7/16/2023 at 6:32 PM, valiantman said:

I don't think the point that is being made is valid enough for me to make the changes suggested.

In other words, your suggestion is "don't put the pepper in there" and I'm the chef. It has pepper.

Based on this comment, more folks will be ripped off.  Until this thread I had the greatest respect for you, in fact more so for you than for anyone else on this forum! Really thought you were more open minded...:(

Edited July 16, 2023 by MAR1979

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/16/2023 at 11:32 PM, valiantman said:

I don't think the point that is being made is valid enough for me to make the changes suggested.

In other words, your suggestion is "don't put the pepper in there" and I'm the chef. It has pepper.

I'm not talking about condiments or voters. Please stick to comics and comic terms.

[valiantman]

Wow! OK, I've been misinterpreting the criticism. 

While completely avoiding both the word "variant" and the word "variation", the criticism is that the word "edition" implies that a variant or a variation exists.

Huh, what a world.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/16/2023 at 11:35 PM, valiantman said:

Wow! OK, I've been misinterpreting the criticism. 

While completely avoiding both the word "variant" and the word "variation", the criticism is that the word "edition" implies that a variant or a variation exists.

Huh, what a world.

Are you Matt Nelson in disguise? 

[MAR1979]

On 7/16/2023 at 6:35 PM, valiantman said:

Wow! OK, I've been misinterpreting the criticism. 

While completely avoiding both the word "variant" and the word "variation", the criticism is that the word "edition" implies that a variant or a variation exists.

Huh, what a world.

Sadly one must account for modern perceptions. Right or wrong aside it is the world we now live in.

[valiantman]

On 7/16/2023 at 5:35 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

I'm not talking about condiments or voters. Please stick to comics and comic terms.

You HAVE to be able to see my point. Until women could vote, all voters were men. You've suggested that I not point out that all comics were newsstands until direct editions existed. All voters were men, all comics were newsstand, then at future dates, voters became men and women, and comics became newsstand and direct edition. 

To avoid mentioning that comics were only newsstand before the direct editions existed is like avoiding mentioning that voters were only men before women could vote.

"Comics were just comics" = "Voters were just voters"

Edited July 16, 2023 by valiantman

[valiantman]

On 7/16/2023 at 5:35 PM, MAR1979 said:

Until this thread I had the greatest respect for you, in fact more so for you than for anyone else on this forum! Really thought you were more open minded...:(

Wow, one indirect sentence that says your point was noted but not obeyed... and I'm the one who got some respect lost.

Huh, what a world.

[valiantman]

On 7/16/2023 at 5:35 PM, MAR1979 said:

Based on this comment, more folks will be ripped off.

WHO?  Who will be ripped off when only one type of comic book exists? 

It's not possible that someone in the market for Hulk #181 is going to believe they should pay a premium for "Hulk #181 Newsstand" because there is no direct edition Hulk #181.

They're the same people who would be ripped off by someone saying "MINT CONDITION" on clearly damaged copies.  Liars are liars, is it ever possible to make them stop?

Edited July 16, 2023 by valiantman

[MAR1979]

On 7/16/2023 at 6:49 PM, valiantman said:

WHO?  Who will be ripped off when only one type of comic book exists? 

It's not possible that someone in the market for Hulk #181 is going to believe they should pay a premium for "Hulk #181 Newsstand" because there is no direct edition Hulk #181.

They're the same people who would be ripped off by someone saying "MINT CONDITION" on clearly damaged copies.  Liars are liars, is it ever possible to make them stop?

You claim the video is for the uneducated, well that who exactly who need to be educated to truly have any chance to help them.  leaving out key details that may assist them helps only the liars.

Granted not every single piece of info can be presented but after viewing they should know Avengers 181, Hulk 233, Iron Man 120, X-Men 119, Black Panther 14, Red Sonja 13 etc only had a newsstand edition because it was from March 1979. Providing a link to known "Whitman" distributed Marvels would show them Battlestar #1 does have a direct sale.

The simple point that needs to be made to the uneducated is they should not pay more for a pre-June 1979 Marvel Newsstand or a pre-Oct 1980 DC. With that noted it's up to the uneducated to do with it what they may. Failure to mention it leave them ripe for the scamming. Which bring us back to, you are trying to help the uneducated, correct?

BTW: IMHO the more who do get scammed the more who will leave the hobby. Since I ma a buyer only and do not sell comics that is to my benefit, but yet I argue against it, as I feel wrong is wrong and don't want to see greenhorns scammed.

Edited July 16, 2023 by MAR1979

[valiantman]

On 7/16/2023 at 6:04 PM, MAR1979 said:

The simple point that needs to be made to the uneducated is they should not pay more for a pre-June 1979 Marvel Newsstand or a pre-Oct 1980 DC. With that noted it's up to the uneducated to do with it what they may. Failure to mention it leave them ripe for the scamming. Which bring us back to, you are trying to help the uneducated, correct?

I have not mentioned prices or premiums at all in the video.

It makes no sense to suddenly point out "Hey! Be careful not to overpay for books that you don't know enough about to avoid overpaying, because in this particular case, you might overpay for a newsstand when no direct edition exists, but all other instances of you overpaying are because someone is lying to you about something else like condition, which I haven't mentioned either, or because you thought a six minute video would give you all the possible information you'd ever need, but in this particular instance, I want to point out that you're not smart enough to stay away from newsstands when no direct edition exists on pre-June 1979 Marvel or pre-Oct 1980 DC, except for when direct editions do exist prior to June 1979, but you'll need to check those individually because some Marvel direct editions go back to 1977 and were available for sale in late-1976, so I'm not sure why I even mentioned June 1979 except the guy told me to, and his name is MAR1979, so he thinks 1979 is really important, but other than that, he wants me to say that you should not overpay for newsstand just because someone said newsstand when direct edition doesn't exist, yes, you're buying a newsstand, so just don't overpay for it, OK?"

That's a six minute video all by itself.

Plus, there's no way the people you're concerned about will understand that "Oct" is October... so we'll have to have a lesson on month abbreviations. The way you've described them, they're just not smart enough.

Edited July 16, 2023 by valiantman

[valiantman]

This is a forest. Forests have trees of different types, but before other types of trees were introduced, the forest only had one type of tree.

"What about people who might get ripped off because someone doesn't fully explain about that one type of tree? People are going to overpay for that particular tree! Tell them the date it was planted!"

Uh, some guy wants me to tell you that some trees were planted on a date that doesn't apply to other trees, and that what you pay, which I haven't mentioned at all, is something that... I can't do this, but he's my Mom and I can't tell him "no". Please check for part two of this video, a two hour presentation on all the specific exceptions to this information that does work most of the time because you're not smart enough to know it doesn't work 100% of the time despite all the uses of "usually" and "most" throughout the six minute video.

Edited July 16, 2023 by valiantman

[MAR1979]

Prior to June 1979 For Marvel, and prior to October 1980 for DC, Newsstand editions represent almost total print runs.  Beginning June 1979 For Marvel, and beginning October 1980 for DC, Direct sale editions were issued for all books in their lines. Direct Sales editions started in those months as the minority printed, then grew and grew until a decade or so later they would represent the overwhelming bulk of the print runs.

I'm sure above sentence can be made much more succinct, but even as is does not seem like it would take any more than 15 seconds of video.

You have my genuine wish of good luck with your video, even if I'm not sure whether scammer or novices will ultimately benefit most.

Edited July 17, 2023 by MAR1979

[valiantman]

On 7/16/2023 at 7:14 PM, MAR1979 said:

Prior to June 1979 For Marvel, and prior to October 1980 for DC, Newsstand editions represent almost total print runs.  Beginning June 1979 For Marvel, and beginning October 1980 for DC, Direct sale editions were issued for all books in their lines. Direct Sales editions started in those months as the minority printed, then grew and grew until a decade or so later they would represent the overwhelming bulk of the print runs.

I'm sure above sentence can be made much more succinct, but even as is does not seem like it would take any more than 15 seconds of video.

You have my genuine wish of good luck with your video, even if I'm not sure whether scammer or novices will ultimately benefit most.

You have created "demand" for direct editions prior to June 1979 for Marvel and prior to October 1980 for DC, even though direct editions only exist for some titles, and it is unclear which titles may even have direct editions.

You've implied that direct editions are the minority "until a decade or so later" (1989 or later) when we know that direct editions of Wolverine #1 (1982) are the most common version found in any public reference.

Your attempts to deter scammers have created new ways to scam.

[MAR1979]

On 7/16/2023 at 8:26 PM, valiantman said:

You have created "demand" for direct editions prior to June 1979 for Marvel and prior to October 1980 for DC, even though direct editions only exist for some titles, and it is unclear which titles may even have direct editions.

You've implied that direct editions are the minority "until a decade or so later" (1989 or later) when we know that direct editions of Wolverine #1 (1982) are the most common version found in any public reference.

Your attempts to deter scammers have created new ways to scam.

Damn you may very well be right.  Still there needs to be a responsible way to give folks required knowledge rather than fuel a fire. But yeah it may require a rather long document to do so...

I guess we can look forward to hyperbolic cries of "It's a Newsstand Baby!" to be even more common on every selling platform

 

P.S. See the self submitted Nova 1 in my signature, "It's a Newsstand Baby!" and those 2 self submitted 1979 Twilight Zone's with Frank Miller art also in my sig, "They are Newsstands Baby!"

Edited July 17, 2023 by MAR1979

[valiantman]

On 7/16/2023 at 7:31 PM, MAR1979 said:

I guess we can look forward to hyperbolic cries  of "It's a Newsstand Baby!" to be even more common on every selling platform

I think we have enough information just in the form of ebay search results for people to "get the picture" on newsstands.

If someone hyperbolically cries "It's a Newsstand Baby!" on Hulk #181... yeah, every ebay result is a newsstand, baby. Direct editions don't exist.

If someone hyperbolically cries "It's a Newsstand Baby!" on Fantastic Four #181... yeah, but almost every ebay result is a newsstand, baby. Direct editions aren't common.

It's not like the early 1990s, when all it took was one publication saying "THIS IS RARE!" and people went nuts. 

Anyone crying "It's a Newsstand, Baby!" or "It's RARE" or "It's MINT" or "Hard to find" is as believable as the ebay results let them be. Usually, not at all.

Sellers who want to trick buyers exist in every possible hobby and industry.

We can't protect everyone from everything. There are still warnings on Preparation H not to eat it.

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by valiantman