Newsstands and Direct Editions (finally) get a video explainer... Version 1.2 8 8

[valiantman]

After multiple discussions, arguments, and accusations, and after uncountable incorrectly identified books for sale, I made a video.

Don't adjust your speakers, there is no sound (yet).

Six minutes for you... six hours of work for me. I'll weigh your comments/critiques proportional to the total time we've spent on this. 

VERSION 1.0 (the one that many of the first comments referenced)...

https://youtu.be/Iy7058pJ7SQ

VERSION 1.1... for comments from July 17th until there's another version to discuss.

https://youtu.be/hWXv5RCpT9w

VERSION 1.2... for comments from July 18th until there's another version to diss... I mean... discuss.

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by valiantman
Version 1.2 added

[DougC]

Bold of you to trust that I will read a video...

[valiantman]

On 7/15/2023 at 9:58 PM, DougC said:

Bold of you to trust that I will read a video...

There are some pictures. Think of it as a Little Golden Book... a barcode is a little bit like tiger stripes.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 7/15/2023 at 10:01 PM, valiantman said:

There are some pictures. Think of it as a Little Golden Book... a barcode is a little bit like tiger stripes.

I thought it was informative, with no complaints, although idk much to begin with. What I knew was there, it also included the m like price and the diamond, which didn't sink into my memory banks until now.

Hopefully I've got it, by George I've got it!

Edited July 16, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[WolverineX]

On 7/15/2023 at 10:26 PM, valiantman said:

After multiple discussions, arguments, and accusations, and after uncountable incorrectly identified books for sale, I made a video.

Six minutes for you... six hours of work for me. I'll weigh your comments/critiques proportional to the total time we've spent on this. 

 

I thought that was great.  Learned a lot.  Thank you!!

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/16/2023 at 3:26 AM, valiantman said:

there is no sound (yet).

 

[Aman619]

As always your continued efforts on behalf of us fellow collectors are amazing!  Now of course we enter the no good deed goes unpunished phase. Stay strong!

[Lazyboy]

Some mostly minor corrections:

In the beginning, comics were just themselves (no additional versions/editions). A significant majority, but not all, were distributed through the newsstand system.

Comic shop owners ordered from distributors, not publishers.

"The barcode area on the cover would soon become a consistent way to identify newsstand and direct edition comic books." "Barcode lines in the 1980s identify a newsstand edition." Usually, but this is not guaranteed.

Marvel's 'M' box was only in use from Oct 82 - Mar 87, just over 4 years.

Many comics, even from the Big 2, distributed through the direct market during the dual distribution era do not have Newsstand editions.

[Get Marwood & I]

A few minor points from me too:

• Agree with Lazyboy - before variations were introduced, the books were just themselves
• 5.09 - "Marvel and DC continued newsstand editions throughout 2013 and 2017, respectively". Given that the salient point here is the end date it might be better to actually say that e.g. Marvel newsstands ended with cover date December 2013. Someone was asking after that very date in another thread recently so its a good point to add in for Marvel and DC, the ones most viewers will care about. You have that info on the page bulleted 2000s too by the way - it should be 2010s at this point
• I found some sections were moving too fast for me to read them. I wanted your points to settle in the mind but had to keep pausing it to do so (which ruined the Simon & Garfunkel soundtrack )
• The red on black heading makes it look like something out of Dracula 

Nicely done though, Valiantman. I like the visuals. Pictures often tell the story better than words. Pictures supported by snappy, accurate, memorable phrases, even more so 

[MAR1979]

Nice, but no mention of the significance of cover Date June 1979 Marvel book and Oct 1980 DC books.  Without that IMHO it will create a license to lie from sellers advertising Marvel and DC newsstand copies for books that in most cases never had any sort of direct sale markings. In addition prior to the months I mentioned Direct Sale editions are the tiny minority even in high grade.

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by MAR1979

[valiantman]

On 7/16/2023 at 2:39 PM, MAR1979 said:

Nice, but no mention of the significance of cover Date June 1979 Marvel book and Oct 1980 DC books.  Without that IMHO it will create a license to lie from sellers advertising Marvel and DC newsstand copies for books that in most cases never had any sort of direct sale markings. In addition prior to the months I mentioned Direct Sale editions are the tiny minority even in high grade.

 

I don't understand the significance you are placing on those dates. Fantastic Four #179 (shown in the video) is dated February 1977 and has both newsstand and direct editions... over two years before June 1979.

If someone advertises "newsstand" for books which have no direct editions, it should be obvious to anyone in the market for such books that every other copy is identical.

There is no mention of conditions, prices, and even the word "variant" or "variation" does not exist in the video.

The video is intended to get people to 90%+ understanding of the topic quickly, instead of whatever failing grade of understanding many have been clinging to for years.

Edited July 16, 2023 by valiantman

[topofthetotem]

That’s a great video, excellent info.

[valiantman]

I agree that prior to the direct market, every comic book was just a comic book without the need for a "newsstand" designation... but the point is to establish that newsstand came first, and it was the direct market which was the change.

How would someone get a copy of a brand new Golden Age comic? At a newsstand, supplied by a newsstand distributor, right next to magazines and other publications that were removed/returned once the date was past.

What changed for newsstands in the decades that followed?  Nothing.

It's not necessary to describe the 1930s to the 1960s as "newsstand", but it is correct to do so when establishing the history of both newsstands and direct editions.  The history of newsstand comics goes back to the 1930s. The history of direct market comics does not.

Edited July 16, 2023 by valiantman

[Pantodude]

On 7/16/2023 at 4:24 PM, valiantman said:

It's not necessary to describe the 1930s to the 1960s as "newsstand", but it is correct to do so when establishing the history of both newsstands and direct editions. 

Nice vid. Thanks!  I understand your point being the need to emphasize that the phenomen of selling via newsstands predated selling via dedicated shops (direct editions).  But that can be done without calling the 1930s to 1960s versions "newsstand editions," which actually mischaracterizes them.  They were a whole species onto itself....not an "edition," as there was no counterpart from which to distinguish them.  The need to recognize editions necessarily coincided with the emergence of the direct editions.  I've seen sellers on eBay referring to some BA books as "newsstand editions" despite them never having had a "direct" counterpart, in an apparently shady attempt to garner a premium.  So the use of the term "newsstand edition" should be more date-sensitive, if not also issue-specific.   

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/16/2023 at 9:24 PM, valiantman said:

I agree that prior to the direct market, every comic book was just a comic book without the need for a "newsstand" designation... but the point is to establish that newsstand came first, and it was the direct market which was the change.

You can make that point easily enough I think, without resorting to taking a descriptor that didn't exist until after the arrival of the direct market, all the way back to the 1930s. I would describe what happened, not what makes the presentation easier for you.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/16/2023 at 9:58 PM, Pantodude said:

Nice vid. Thanks!  I understand your point being the need to emphasize that the phenomen of selling via newsstands predated selling via dedicated shops (direct editions).  But that can be done without calling the 1930s to 1960s versions "newsstand editions," which actually mischaracterizes them.  They were a whole species onto itself....not an "edition," as there was no counterpart from which to distinguish them.  The need to recognize editions necessarily coincided with the emergence of the direct editions.  I've seen sellers on eBay referring to some BA books as "newsstand editions" despite them never having had a "direct" counterpart, in an apparently shady attempt to garner a premium.  So the use of the term "newsstand edition" should be more date-sensitive, if not also issue-specific.   

Ah, we seem to have just said the same thing.

Something to consider then @valiantman, wouldn't you say?

[valiantman]

On 7/16/2023 at 4:02 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Ah, we seem to have just said the same thing.

Something to consider then @valiantman, wouldn't you say?

The statement for the 1930s to 1960s (and part of the 1970s) is "All comics were newsstand editions"... how does that suggest there was anything else?

It reminds me of saying "All voters were men" prior to the United States allowing women to vote.

You're suggesting that I should just say "all voters were voters" until a particular date, because they had to be men so there's no reason to point it out.

Of course there's a reason to point it out... because it was true... even if other kinds of voters didn't exist until later.

Edited July 16, 2023 by valiantman

[MAR1979]

On 7/16/2023 at 4:03 PM, valiantman said:

I don't understand the significance you are placing on those dates. Fantastic Four #179 (shown in the video) is dated February 1977 and has both newsstand and direct editions... over two years before June 1979.

If someone advertises "newsstand" for books which have no direct editions, it should be obvious to anyone in the market for such books that every other copy is identical.

There is no mention of conditions, prices, and even the word "variant" or "variation" does not exist in the video.

The video is intended to get people to 90%+ understanding of the topic quickly, instead of whatever failing grade of understanding many have been clinging to for years.

June 1979 Marvel and Oct 1980 DC; those were the dates every book in those company line's (except for outliers, then later direct sale only) would have a both a direct sale and a newsstand counterpart. As has been mentioned by 3 in this thread some wrongly hyping, and oftimes with malice, "newsstand" for books that have no direct sale counterparts.

What you are presenting is correct, but it's not telling a vital part of the story as such makes seller misinformation, lies and fraud more likley to succeed. Thus doing more harm than the good you seek to do.

 

P.S. Please don't take feedback personally. I work for a Fortune 20 corporation where counterpoints and constructive criticisms are encouraged as it allows for a "better" resulting product

Edited July 16, 2023 by MAR1979

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/16/2023 at 11:18 PM, valiantman said:

The statement for the 1930s to 1960s (and part of the 1970s) is "All comics were newsstand editions"... how does that suggest there was anything else?

It reminds me of saying "All voters were men" prior to the United States allowing women to vote.

You're suggesting that I should just say "all voters were voters" until a particular date, because they had to be men so there's no reason to point it out.

Of course there's a reason to point it out... because it was true... even if other kinds of voters didn't exist until 

You're making a video to raise the awareness levels of the uneducated. Think about how they will interpret what you are presenting. 

[valiantman]

On 7/16/2023 at 5:30 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

On 7/16/2023 at 5:18 PM, valiantman said:

The statement for the 1930s to 1960s (and part of the 1970s) is "All comics were newsstand editions"... how does that suggest there was anything else?

It reminds me of saying "All voters were men" prior to the United States allowing women to vote.

You're suggesting that I should just say "all voters were voters" until a particular date, because they had to be men so there's no reason to point it out.

Of course there's a reason to point it out... because it was true... even if other kinds of voters didn't exist until 

You're making a video to raise the awareness levels of the uneducated. Think about how they will interpret what you are presenting. 

It is not incorrect to say that Action Comics #1 is a newsstand comic.