Relevance of Grade when collecting 1 1

[aabruzzese]

How much importance do you guys put on the Grade of the book when collecting, I am debating if I want to try and get 
all my keys in 9.8 over the long haul as opposed to buying 9.0 -> 9.6 copies to complete the set. 

I am going to start looking at how to get higher grade books at smart values and offload the lesser one's when I do make a purchase.

At the moment I have 6 copies of Peter Parker Spectacular #1 all of them are 8.5 to 9.2 at best, so it is alluring to look for a 9.8 and 
call it a day.   What are your thoughts ?

 

[MAR1979]

No one size fits all

[seanfingh]

When I was really deep into collecting Bronze Age #1s I would always buy 9.6 instead of 9.8. It saved a ton of money on the front end, but it also cost a ton of appreciation on the back end.  Many times I looked back at books that I bought for say $70 because I didn't want to pay $150-200 for a 9.8. When I went to sell them, the 9.8 would have sold for 300-400 and the 9.6 was $100. So it would have been a better play to spend more in order to make more.  I doubt that things are same in these post-COVID doldrums, but my experience was often that the extra money not only would have created more pride of ownership, but also would have been a better investment.

[Jesse-Lee]

On 8/4/2023 at 9:31 AM, aabruzzese said:

How much importance do you guys put on the Grade of the book when collecting, I am debating if I want to try and get 
all my keys in 9.8 over the long haul as opposed to buying 9.0 -> 9.6 copies to complete the set. 

I am going to start looking at how to get higher grade books at smart values and offload the lesser one's when I do make a purchase.

At the moment I have 6 copies of Peter Parker Spectacular #1 all of them are 8.5 to 9.2 at best, so it is alluring to look for a 9.8 and 
call it a day.   What are your thoughts ?

 

This is how I've always felt about it, especially when talking about graded books - I've written this in the past, but I'll quote it here:

Quote

Some lower grades on certain books have seen a higher percentage return than the same book in a 9.8,and it allows you to diversify your investment across multiple books. You could spend $1,000 on one 9.8 book and see a 20% return, or spend $1,000 across 3 9.2 books and see a cumulative 40% return for example. It can be book dependent of course, but there's solid evidence for it. And if you have one 9.8 that dips, your whole investment dips, but if you have 3 9.2 and one dips, the other two could potentially cover your losses.

If I had unlimited funds, I'd go for the highest grade possible in every book. But since I don't, I buy the books I like in grades I can afford and am happy with. For example, I have a 4.0 Detective 359, a 6.5 Batman 232, a 7.5 Batman 234, a 6.5 Batman 251, etc. For me, I'd rather have those 4 books in the grades I have them in, vs. one of those books in a much higher grade for the same total cost.

[Jesse-Lee]

On 8/4/2023 at 1:44 PM, seanfingh said:

When I was really deep into collecting Bronze Age #1s I would always buy 9.6 instead of 9.8. It saved a ton of money on the front end, but it also cost a ton of appreciation on the back end.  Many times I looked back at books that I bought for say $70 because I didn't want to pay $150-200 for a 9.8. When I went to sell them, the 9.8 would have sold for 300-400 and the 9.6 was $100. So it would have been a better play to spend more in order to make more.  I doubt that things are same in these post-COVID doldrums, but my experience was often that the extra money not only would have created more pride of ownership, but also would have been a better investment.

Ha, this just illustrates @MAR1979's point that "no one size fits all," because you and I commented almost the exact opposite sentiments at almost the exact same time! It just proves that there can be a lot of personal approaches to collecting.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Jesse-Lee

[seanfingh]

On 8/4/2023 at 2:47 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

Ha, this just illustrates @MAR1979's point that "no one size fits all," because you and I commented almost the exact opposite sentiments at almost the exact same time! It just proves that there's can be a lot of personal approaches to collecting!

Well, I think part of it is also that we are kind of talking about different types of books.  I think that your comment is spot on when you say You could spend $1,000 on one 9.8 book and see a 20% return, or spend $1,000 across 3 9.2 books and see a cumulative 40% return for example.  That is an analysis of books like keys or mini-keys, particularly when you are buying before price spikes.

I am talking about books like Super-Friends #1 or Joker #1 or Marvel Two-In-One #1 - books that have not much else going for them other than that they are #1s from Marvel or DC.

So in addition to your quite accurate "no one size fits all," I think that there are different points of inflection based upon where we are in the business cycle (hot vs. not) type of book and tons of other potential variables.  

 

[LowGradeBronze]

It's a question that's sizzling under the surface in so many threads on these boards, so it's good that you've come out and asked it straight. For me, on a strictly limited budget, it's all about the aesthetics. I have lovely looking 3.0s and some not so attractive 6.0s so if a book has the right gloss, been stored nicely but a little bit of wear I'll often take that over something with sharp corners and ink transfer, to take two random examples. 

I feel the chasing down of 9.8s is a very narrow path to follow, but then some of the arguments stated above are quite compelling, so I can see the sense in certain cases. Especially if an opportunity presents right now.

Edited August 4, 2023 by LowGradeBronze

[seanfingh]

On 8/4/2023 at 4:03 PM, LowGradeBronze said:

It's a question that's sizzling under the surface in so many threads on these boards, so it's good that you've come out and asked it straight. For me, on a strictly limited budget, it's all about the aesthetics. I have lovely looking 3.0s and some not so attractive 6.0s so if a book has the right gloss, been stored nicely but a little bit of wear I'll often take that over something with sharp corners and ink transfer, to take two random examples. 

I feel the chasing down of 9.8s is a very narrow path to follow, but then some of the arguments stated above are quite compelling, so I can see the sense in certain cases. Especially if an opportunity presents right now.

Same logic as to why I chose 9.6.  Some 9.6 look comparable to 9.8 and some even look superior, so a beautiful book for 40% of the 9.8 cost always resonated with me.

[MAR1979]

On 8/4/2023 at 4:16 PM, seanfingh said:

Same logic as to why I chose 9.6.  Some 9.6 look comparable to 9.8 and some even look superior, so a beautiful book for 40% of the 9.8 cost always resonated with me.

As they say in trading cards; "Buy the card, not the flip"  Flip means label in the slab.

I've many 9.6's that present much nicer than 9.8's specifically on my self submitted stuff.

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by MAR1979

[aabruzzese]

On 8/4/2023 at 1:16 PM, seanfingh said:

Same logic as to why I chose 9.6.  Some 9.6 look comparable to 9.8 and some even look superior, so a beautiful book for 40% of the 9.8 cost always resonated with me.

See that is what I feel too, but in the end a 9.8 is more of a "prestige" element since a 9.6 presemts probably just as well as a 9.8 

I am not looking at it from a "I am going to sell" the books outright but maybe in 5 or 10 years depending on what happens with the
hobby it could become an option.  I figure the thing to do is to wait for a great deal and just buy it when it presents itself.

I see some 9.8 books on Ebay auctions at really good prices and many with 0 bids on top of that. 

 

[tth2]

On 8/5/2023 at 2:44 AM, seanfingh said:

When I was really deep into collecting Bronze Age #1s I would always buy 9.6 instead of 9.8. It saved a ton of money on the front end, but it also cost a ton of appreciation on the back end.  Many times I looked back at books that I bought for say $70 because I didn't want to pay $150-200 for a 9.8. When I went to sell them, the 9.8 would have sold for 300-400 and the 9.6 was $100. So it would have been a better play to spend more in order to make more. 

Bingo.

[tth2]

When it comes to collecting BA, it's not just the grade.  Getting most BA books in 9.6 or 9.8 is not particularly hard.  But most of them have a big fat white stripe down the spine, or are misaligned, or are cut off at the top or at the bottom, or all of the above. 

What's really hard is getting BA books in high grade with excellent QP. 

[LowGradeBronze]

On 8/4/2023 at 10:07 PM, aabruzzese said:

I see some 9.8 books on Ebay auctions at really good prices and many with 0 bids on top of that. 

 

If the first bid price isn't too high I'll often put in a bid. Don't expect to win many of those but you always get lucky eventually!

[aabruzzese]

On 8/5/2023 at 12:23 PM, LowGradeBronze said:

If the first bid price isn't too high I'll often put in a bid. Don't expect to win many of those but you always get lucky eventually!

The thing that kills me and give so much credence to the ASM is so much better than PPSSM is that you have 72 pages at 120 items per page of ASM until you reach the same prices as the first pages of PPSSM.   LOL it goes to show which series wears the pants. 

 

[Naelbis]

Since I don't have unlimited money to throw around and I am generally not buying anything for the "investment value", I try and find a good balance between grade, price and availability. That generally puts me in the 8.5-9.2 range when it comes to Bronze books unless we are talking the high dollar "keys" like Hulk 181. Something like that would push me down into the 5.5-6.5 range. I like high grades as much as anyone but I would rather have a lower grade copy than no copy. 

[aabruzzese]

On 8/6/2023 at 5:41 PM, Naelbis said:

Since I don't have unlimited money to throw around and I am generally not buying anything for the "investment value", I try and find a good balance between grade, price and availability. That generally puts me in the 8.5-9.2 range when it comes to Bronze books unless we are talking the high dollar "keys" like Hulk 181. Something like that would push me down into the 5.5-6.5 range. I like high grades as much as anyone but I would rather have a lower grade copy than no copy. 

I just snagged an ASM #344 slabbed at 9.6 for like 70$ on Ebay, either the world is collapsing, or the 9.6 iceberg is melting. 

 

[Dick Pontoon]

Prices have been returning to pre-pandemic levels (and normalcy) for quite a while. The GPA 90 day average is $61, with numerous other sales in the $50 range and even some in the $40s. There's over 1500 9.6s in the census and over 1200 9.8s.

[aabruzzese]

On 8/7/2023 at 2:14 PM, MR. Pontoon said:

Prices have been returning to pre-pandemic levels (and normalcy) for quite a while. The GPA 90 day average is $61, with numerous other sales in the $50 range and even some in the $40s. There's over 1500 9.6s in the census and over 1200 9.8s.

I know, but how do you have a margin at these prices when throwing in the cost of CGC to whatever the raw book cost to start with. 
I bought a Peter Parker Spectacular Spider-Man #1 1976 at 9.6 for 120$ which is not too bad since I could not find a reliable 
raw copy that stood up to an up-close review.  I just need to find a few more key issues before I send in a batch to CGC for grading.

[tth2]

On 8/8/2023 at 8:31 AM, aabruzzese said:

I know, but how do you have a margin at these prices when throwing in the cost of CGC to whatever the raw book cost to start with. 

I've always been puzzled by the economics of slabbing CA and Modern books, because the profit margins for non-keys just don't seem to be big enough to be worth it.  I can only guess that they are mass submissions with the aim of getting 9.8s, and anything that comes back with a grade of less than 9.8 is just considered to be a cost of doing business.

[FlyingDonut]

On 8/4/2023 at 10:26 PM, tth2 said:

When it comes to collecting BA, it's not just the grade.  Getting most BA books in 9.6 or 9.8 is not particularly hard.  But most of them have a big fat white stripe down the spine, or are misaligned, or are cut off at the top or at the bottom, or all of the above. 

What's really hard is getting BA books in high grade with excellent QP. 

And white pages.