Does OA exist for the initial Hulk run? 1-6 1 1

[Bronty]

On 8/14/2023 at 1:37 PM, Lee B. said:

And even more:

Avengers #23 (1965):  http://comicartads.com/content/avengers-23-cover

Avengers #34 (1966):  http://comicartads.com/content/avengers-34-cover

Avengers #36 (1967):  http://comicartads.com/content/avengers-36-cover

Fantastic Four #40 (1965):  http://comicartads.com/content/fantastic-four-40-cover

Rawhide Kid #54 (1966):  http://comicartads.com/content/rawhide-kid-54-cover

Ok, I'll stop now.

Please don't!

[Bronty]

On 8/14/2023 at 1:37 PM, Lee B. said:

And even more:

Avengers #23 (1965):  http://comicartads.com/content/avengers-23-cover

Avengers #34 (1966):  http://comicartads.com/content/avengers-34-cover

Avengers #36 (1967):  http://comicartads.com/content/avengers-36-cover

Fantastic Four #40 (1965):  http://comicartads.com/content/fantastic-four-40-cover

Rawhide Kid #54 (1966):  http://comicartads.com/content/rawhide-kid-54-cover

Ok, I'll stop now.

Added all of yours except the FFF (pre hero), rawhide kid (not hero) and avengers 34,36 (already on the list).  

Thanks Lee!

[Blastaar]

Forgive my ignorance, what was destroyed due to what I believe was water damage in one of the old Marvel buildings? Or was that DC? I remember hearing about that but didn’t know the specifics.  

[Randall Dowling]

On 8/14/2023 at 6:50 PM, Blastaar said:

Forgive my ignorance, what was destroyed due to what I believe was water damage in one of the old Marvel buildings? Or was that DC? I remember hearing about that but didn’t know the specifics.  

The mystery surrounding what happened to all of that OA at Marvel persists to this day.  I've read numerous accounts from people that worked there at the time and can glean no clear understanding of it's disposition.

[Blastaar]

On 8/14/2023 at 9:17 PM, Randall Dowling said:

The mystery surrounding what happened to all of that OA at Marvel persists to this day.  I've read numerous accounts from people that worked there at the time and can glean no clear understanding of its disposition.

I could see the truth being as simple as spring cleaning around the office/storage and tossing handfuls into a dumpster.  

[Xatari]

The more common story is it was walked out the back door by a certain employee.

[tth2]

On 8/15/2023 at 1:37 AM, Lee B. said:

Fantastic Four #40 (1965):  http://comicartads.com/content/fantastic-four-40-cover

 

Signed right in the image ... by Stan Lee.  

[DeadpoolJr.]

Are we talking about earliest that has a picture that can be found or earliest that apparently is known to exist with being seeing it? If it's earliest that's known to exist but not have scans online wouldn't that be the ASM 1 cover with the story about how it and some other art was stolen by some apparent addicts from Marvel's offsite storage facility with them trying to sell it at a comic shop and then disappearing? 

[rsonenthal]

I think covers, which I believe were returned separately, are different stories than interiors.

[glendgold]

On 8/15/2023 at 7:26 AM, rsonenthal said:

I think covers, which I believe were returned separately, are different stories than interiors.

This is correct. Covers were printed at a different plant and were returned to Marvel every three months in a separate envelope. Irene V mentions that when the closet shelves got overstuffed, some envelopes of -- something -- were sent off to landfill. What constitutes "something" is a question we've been wondering about for decades, but given that almost no covers have shown up from before May 1965, it's likely that covers went to the great beyond. Which pains me to say.  EDIT: The 1965 covers that have shown up such as FF 40, ST 137, Avengers 16, Journey Annual 1, etc tend to be from within 3 months of each other, so a working theory is that one particular envelope got saved. As per comments above, there are some pre-'65 covers but not the ST 89 mentioned earlier - that's a 1994 recreation. And there are rumors of others, but I'm not sure it's meaningful to report, as they're about as reliable as UFO sightings.

@Blastaar - the Hulk 1 cover existed long enough to make this piece of production art in 1966 for Tales to Astonish 59.  Pages from Hulk 3, 4, 5 and 6 have shown up frequently, but 1 and 2 haven't popped up in public, at least. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by glendgold
Accuracy, attempted smartness

[Bronty]

On 8/15/2023 at 1:55 PM, glendgold said:

This is correct. Covers were printed at a different plant and were returned to Marvel every three months in a separate envelope. Irene V mentions that when the closet shelves got overstuffed, some envelopes of -- something -- were sent off to landfill. What constitutes "something" is a question we've been wondering about for decades, but given that almost no covers have shown up from before May 1965, it's likely that covers went to the great beyond. Which pains me to say.  EDIT: The 1965 covers that have shown up such as FF 40, ST 137, Avengers 16, Journey Annual 1, etc tend to be from within 3 months of each other, so a working theory is that one particular envelope got saved. As per comments above, there are some pre-'65 covers but not the ST 89 mentioned earlier - that's a 1994 recreation. And there are rumors of others, but I'm not sure it's meaningful to report, as they're about as reliable as UFO sightings.

@Blastaar - the Hulk 1 cover existed long enough to make this piece of production art in 1966 for Tales to Astonish 59.  Pages from Hulk 3, 4, 5 and 6 have shown up frequently, but 1 and 2 haven't popped up in public, at least. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Glen.   ST89 cover seemed too good to be true.   Great tidbit about hulk 1 also

[Kirby Codex]

Would it be wrong to mention the FF Kirby ad from Hulk #1 that surfaced many moons ago?

[pemart1966]

Back to the original question...I once owned 2 pages for the Gladiator From Space story...

[1classics]

On 8/14/2023 at 9:10 PM, DeadpoolJr. said:

Are we talking about earliest that has a picture that can be found or earliest that apparently is known to exist with being seeing it? If it's earliest that's known to exist but not have scans online wouldn't that be the ASM 1 cover with the story about how it and some other art was stolen by some apparent addicts from Marvel's offsite storage facility with them trying to sell it at a comic shop and then disappearing? 

Greetings all, just to add my  on this fascinating topic…

The story goes the complete interiors to ASM 1 and X1 was sold for something like $2k each in the park by the druggies, but never heard the covers. 

As for the original question, there’s likely no Hulk 1 or 2 interior art out there. All the top dawgs in the biz have never heard of or encountered pages from the first 2 issues.

Hulk 3 as advertised by clink is the earliest Hulk art to exist at this time. Interestingly enough, FF’s earliest known interiors is also from issue #3, though months earlier in late ‘61. FF & Hulk were the first two hero related art books to hit, even Spidey and Thor came a few months after Hulk, so there’s something to be said for 1961 / early ‘62 art surviving or lack thereof. Also, according to Vartinoff, FF3 and Hulk 3 were the earliest in the vault, (see attached) which I believe she began cataloging in 1975, though concluded her results in 1980.

Needless to say I’m chiming in since I’ve done countless hours of research on the topic and I find it most interesting. We’ll never truly know what happened with all the art early on or even later as others mentioned above, but it’s still a fascinating topic.

After 60+ years now from the earliest Marvel Age art existing and record breaking results, you would imagine if these covers or earlier interior pages are out there, one or more would’ve surfaced. Unless something miraculously appears like AF15 gifted to the LOC, it’s likely vanished decades ago when they were thought to be worthless and only taking up space in the marvel office. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by 1classics
Grammar

[Kirby Codex]

An interior page to Hulk #1 appeared on the market about 15 to 20 years ago.

It was the internal all-art 1/2 to 2/3 Fantastic Four ad drawn by Kirby and inked by Klein.

I don't know how visible to the hobby it was, but I was definitely offered the piece (I had scans of it, but I think they are long gone).

It changed hands a few times and then went into a black hole.

The other pieces coming through that contact were CRAZY, so you can take from that what you will.

[1classics]

On 8/18/2023 at 11:55 PM, Kirby Codex said:

An interior page to Hulk #1 appeared on the market about 15 to 20 years ago.

It was the internal all-art 1/2 to 2/3 Fantastic Four ad drawn by Kirby and inked by Klein.

I don't know how visible to the hobby it was, but I was definitely offered the piece (I had scans of it, but I think they are long gone).

It changed hands a few times and then went into a black hole.

The other pieces coming through that contact were CRAZY, so you can take from that what you will.

Thanks for the feedback. It must be this ad page below, which would’ve been done shortly after the interior pages (V724), Hulk 1 was an entirely different production number under V708. As you’re probably aware it gets pretty technical with the job numbers, but it looks like this ad was a filler and used later in the month or following month before print, with not as many titles in early ‘62. Therefore as much as this was printed in Hulk 1, it’s not part of the Hulk story and does not contain Hulk whatsoever. Either way, I think we can all agree this art would go for a tremendous amount if it ever came to market.

Bechara, Moy, Burkey, etc. and the older historians who went on record from as early as the late 60’s early 70’s hotel conventions all have never come across a Hulk 1 interior to my knowledge or at least that’s what been said. According to Tom Kraft, Kirby Museum curator, he hasn’t come across a scan or heard of one from the story either. But who knows what’s sitting in someone’s attic or some crazy black hole collection, just doubtful at this point. 

I’m a realist, we have to believe what we see in this world not what we hear, so unless a proven scan comes up, we have to go off what we know exists, not just rumors. And I get that the rumors are insane, from FF1 cover in Europe to a Cap 1 cover in the wild, which is all possible but extremely doubtful. Again, this is great information above about the ad art, thanks again for sharing!

 

[glendgold]

That ad sold at auction - I also have seen it in person at San Diego. It was owned for a while by a long-time (and very cool) collector. Always thought it was inked by Brodsky instead of Klein but I could well be wrong. 

[1classics]

On 8/19/2023 at 10:50 AM, glendgold said:

That ad sold at auction - I also have seen it in person at San Diego. It was owned for a while by a long-time (and very cool) collector. Always thought it was inked by Brodsky instead of Klein but I could well be wrong. 

I think you’re right about Brodsky. The early thoughts were always Klein, but more recently the consensus is more than likely Brodsky inks early on. I found the ad from The Kirby archives, interesting it was later used for a newer FF1 cover. Perhaps the AF ad was a stat as most of the house ads were stat at this time. 

https://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/effect/2018/08/08/ff-house-ad/

[The Voord]

Metropolis has (or had) the cover art to  TTA # 67.  I also seem to recall the Bothers D having the TTA # 70 cover.

[cloud cloddie]

On 8/20/2023 at 7:21 AM, The Voord said:

Bothers D