Can someone explain this ComicConnect Auction “coincidence” 5 5

[lou_fine]

On 10/21/2023 at 4:42 PM, Phicks said:

This one.  I bid $401 and SOMEHOW that came out to be the final price.   The $461.15 shown represents “fees”.

 

https://www.comicconnect.com/item/1010444https://www.comicconnect.com/item/1010444?tzf=1

 

On 10/21/2023 at 4:45 PM, Phicks said:

And the day before I bid $133 for another book.  Fortunately, my final winning bid was only $132:

 

https://https://www.comicconnect.com/item/987408www.comicconnect.com/item/987408

Just curious here, but what were the previous prior bids on these two lots here before they got run up to your max bid.  

Did both of these books end up selling for record GPA prices or were you hoping to get a steal of a deal and set your max bids at lower than GPA average or GoCollect FMV and another bidder simply tossed in another bid that was "substantially" higher than the previous bid, but also below GPA average of FMV hoping to get a steal at the last second just like you, and as a result, just happen to trigger your max bid?  

 

On 10/21/2023 at 9:32 PM, Lightning55 said:

A general example would be an item that you have a max bid of $120 sitting at $60.

Although this is only a general example, to see a book only double and at such a low dollar value indicates a book that is not much in demand, especially if it finished up at below GPA average or GoCollect FMV.  Maybe it's just the books that I am following or interested in, but they usually go up by much much more than double at the end of the auctions and these are for books in the thousands of dollars and not for ones that barely cracks 3-figures.  

Edited October 22, 2023 by lou_fine

[Nick Furious]

On 10/21/2023 at 6:42 PM, Phicks said:

This one.  I bid $401 and SOMEHOW that came out to be the final price.   The $461.15 shown represents “fees”.

 

https://www.comicconnect.com/item/1010444https://www.comicconnect.com/item/1010444?tzf=1

 

On 10/21/2023 at 6:45 PM, Phicks said:

And the day before I bid $133 for another book.  Fortunately, my final winning bid was only $132:

 

https://https://www.comicconnect.com/item/987408www.comicconnect.com/item/987408

When you bid a number like $401 or $133, there is typically a reason for not using a round number.  In my experience it's because I'm anticipating that someone else's max bid will be the round number of $130 or $400.  Someone on the other side of the equation is probably wondering how you are so good at anticipating other max bids in advance and beating out other bidders by such small margins.   

[lou_fine]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:15 AM, Nick Furious said:

 

When you bid a number like $401 or $133, there is typically a reason for not using a round number.  In my experience it's because I'm anticipating that someone else's max bid will be the round number of $130 or $400.  Someone on the other side of the equation is probably wondering how you are so good at anticipating other max bids in advance and beating out other bidders by such small margins.   

This is EXACTLY why I never use round numbers in my bids and always go just a bit above a standard round number.  

Almost always works to give me the PENDING high value bid, only to be blown right out of the water by some crazed bidding at the end.    

[Artboy99]

as has been mentioned here is what is happening:

Your bid of $401 the person who is the under-bidder has bid close to your maximum bid so the auction system automatically increases your bid amount because you have bid higher than the under-bidder. What is the auction increment? This is different for each book and is determined by the auctioneer. Example the bid increment is $25.00, you have bid $401, and another person bids $380 the system will automatically increase your bid amount to your maximum.

The other thing that is going on: You know the value that the book is likely to sell for, and so do many other auction participants hence the bids are all around that figure. You cleverly bid an odd figure of $401 as you have made the assumption that the book should sell for a maximum price of $400.00 and when everyone else bids close to the assumed sell value your maximum is achieved.

Almost all of my auction wins on that site are for very close to or at my maximum due to these circumstances.

[skypinkblu]

I started sniping on eBay many years ago because of shill bidding. I had never even heard of shill bidding when I learned about bidding there. In the good old days, Stu would find shill bidders all the time and report them on the chatboard.

People had fake names, friends names, neighbors etc.  I had no idea what sniping was, but a friend taught me about 3 seconds ...and even sometimes less, an action that would prevent my putting in an early bid and getting bid up. I used to sit at the computer counting.

Then they masked all the names...it was very hard to determine who was cheating and accepting cheats unless the people were dumb enough to make small incremental bids and it was obvious.

Now I pretty much just bid what I'm willing to pay, UNLESS I have the time to sit in at the end and bid live.

I laughed at the "cleverly bidding $401" I actually add more than $1, it rarely works;) 

Oh and on eBay, I sometimes use Esnipe, but that doesn't work on many other platforms.

Edited October 22, 2023 by skypinkblu

[Gaard]

On 10/22/2023 at 12:27 PM, skypinkblu said:

I started sniping on eBay many years ago because of shill bidding. I had never even heard of shill bidding when I learned about bidding there. In the good old days, Stu would find shill bidders all the time and report them on the chatboard.

People had fake names, friends names, neighbors etc.  I had no idea what sniping was, but a friend taught me about 3 seconds ...and even sometimes less, an action that would prevent my putting in an early bid and getting bid up. I used to sit at the computer counting.

Then they masked all the names...it was very hard to determine who was cheating and accepting cheats unless the people were dumb enough to make small incremental bids and it was obvious.

Now I pretty much just bid what I'm willing to pay, UNLESS I have the time to sit in at the end and bid live.

I laughed at the "cleverly bidding $401" I actually add more than $1, it rarely works;) 

Oh and on eBay, I sometimes use Esnipe, but that doesn't work on many other platforms.

100%

I never bid on an Ebay auction without using Gixen.  https://www.gixen.com/main/index.php

I also never bid (except tracking bids) on a CL auction that gets over past what I consider to be my bedtime ... if I'm not awake when the auction gets over, I don't bid on it. Even though I can't say for certain any shenanigans are going on, I seem to pay my max bid more often on auctions where I bid early and let it sit ... just peace of mind.

I've never won a book on CC or Heritage.

And as far as the $401-type bidding ... I'm pretty sure everyone and their brother does that.

[Artboy99]

On 10/22/2023 at 10:27 AM, skypinkblu said:

I started sniping on eBay many years ago because of shill bidding. I had never even heard of shill bidding when I learned about bidding there. In the good old days, Stu would find shill bidders all the time and report them on the chatboard.

People had fake names, friends names, neighbors etc.  I had no idea what sniping was, but a friend taught me about 3 seconds ...and even sometimes less, an action that would prevent my putting in an early bid and getting bid up. I used to sit at the computer counting.

Then they masked all the names...it was very hard to determine who was cheating and accepting cheats unless the people were dumb enough to make small incremental bids and it was obvious.

Now I pretty much just bid what I'm willing to pay, UNLESS I have the time to sit in at the end and bid live.

I laughed at the "cleverly bidding $401" I actually add more than $1, it rarely works;) 

Oh and on eBay, I sometimes use Esnipe, but that doesn't work on many other platforms.

did you detect my sarcasm? Great!

[mikenyc]

On 10/22/2023 at 11:45 AM, Artboy99 said:

as has been mentioned here is what is happening:

Your bid of $401 the person who is the under-bidder has bid close to your maximum bid so the auction system automatically increases your bid amount because you have bid higher than the under-bidder. What is the auction increment? This is different for each book and is determined by the auctioneer. Example the bid increment is $25.00, you have bid $401, and another person bids $380 the system will automatically increase your bid amount to your maximum.

The other thing that is going on: You know the value that the book is likely to sell for, and so do many other auction participants hence the bids are all around that figure. You cleverly bid an odd figure of $401 as you have made the assumption that the book should sell for a maximum price of $400.00 and when everyone else bids close to the assumed sell value your maximum is achieved.

Almost all of my auction wins on that site are for very close to or at my maximum due to these circumstances.

So this may very well be what occurred. I was watching every single auction until the end. The final book I won had the same bid amount for the previous week, $229. My max bid was $300. With 2 minutes and 50 something seconds left the price went from $229 to $300. The clock reset and the auction closed after the 3 minutes. This scenario happened with my other books as well. 
 

Ebay, Heritage, ComicLink, MyComicShop all of these auctions, that I have bought many books from, allow the bidder to at least follow the bid increases. 
 

I didn’t make a topic saying I was ripped off, I wanted to hear if my experience was an anomaly or if others experienced the same. 
 

I am personally unhappy with the way in which the auctions transpired. I love the books and placed the bids, albeit with a buzz, and I’m happy to have them. I will just never use that site again after my experience. 

[mikenyc]

On 10/22/2023 at 1:08 AM, skypinkblu said:

Maybe don't drink and bid;) err...drive?

Nice to see you here, hope you at least loved the books you won!

I've had max bids win just about everywhere, CC is one place I don't always win....that dumb 3 minute thingy gives people time to think about really wanting the book I wanted.

I hope that you and the family have been well!! 
It’s nice to see a few of the old guard are still around. 

[skypinkblu]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:25 PM, mikenyc said:

I hope that you and the family have been well!! 
It’s nice to see a few of the old guard are still around. 

Everyone is good, thanks...and YOU have been missed...

[Lightning55]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:21 PM, mikenyc said:

So this may very well be what occurred. I was watching every single auction until the end. The final book I won had the same bid amount for the previous week, $229. My max bid was $300. With 2 minutes and 50 something seconds left the price went from $229 to $300. The clock reset and the auction closed after the 3 minutes. This scenario happened with my other books as well.

That last part is what is suspicious. Almost every auction crept up to your last bid, which was, as you said, a fairly wild bid, well over comparables, and then stopped short of your max, leaving you holding the bag. Every one. Not one went past, even by chance. Super suspicious.

Almost seems like they can see what you bid. Hmmm.

[Artboy99]

On 10/22/2023 at 6:32 PM, Lightning55 said:

That last part is what is suspicious. Almost every auction crept up to your last bid, which was, as you said, a fairly wild bid, well over comparables, and then stopped short of your max, leaving you holding the bag. Every one. Not one went past, even by chance. Super suspicious.

Almost seems like they can see what you bid. Hmmm.

I agree. 

[lou_fine]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:21 PM, mikenyc said:

So this may very well be what occurred. I was watching every single auction until the end.

If you are watching every single auction live,why in the world would you be setting a max bid instead of simply bidding real time at the end?  

[lou_fine]

On 10/22/2023 at 7:12 AM, alexgross.com said:

perhaps some of you think the former employee on here who alleged that metro shills most or all of cc's stuff was just disgrunled. ok.

Never realized that Halperin was farming out his services to CC as I thought that would be double dipping and also a conflict of interest.  

Word on the street is that Halperin has the fastest fingers in the world when it comes to surfing his keyboard and bidding on books.  

Edited October 23, 2023 by lou_fine

[Brer247i]

On 10/21/2023 at 9:32 PM, Lightning55 said:

I'm not going to provide specific info, for a number of reasons, especially since it's not an issue that applies to me (yet). I'm just providing data from my own experiences, and I'm sure mine are not so unique. 

A general example would be an item that you have a max bid of $120 sitting at $60. Then right in the last seconds, a single bidder leaves the herd and bids $117, triggering your max bid. You win the auction, and you're glad you were  brave enough to bid $120, or you would have lost.

That scenario can be legit, but it doesn't happen that way very often. Like I said, quite rarely, only 1 or 2 % of the time, by my experience. At least half the time I get outbid, sometimes 90% of the time. The rest that I win are not so tight.

To have the majority of my wins hit the max would be a huge red flag for me. Instead of thinking I was lucky to win a close auction, a bunch of them occurring would give me the opposite feeling. Something's up.

It can be easy to approximate someone else's max bid once you've figured out how each auction house's incremental bidding works, the rough value of the book(s), and account for human behavior. I have won plenty of auctions from Ebay, CC, CL and HA. As an example, during a recent auction, I won three books. I won the first two (non-keys) with my max bid. The third (major modern key) was $200 below my max bid. Lucky to be sure. I'm sure my experiences aren't unique either. Coincidences until proven otherwise.