Bad beats... 0

[Dr. Balls]

Not sure how open people are about discussing their bad beats on auction - but this one was a bummer tonight:

I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to GA artwork, so this will be my second loss on a page being the underbidder. What's a real bummer about this one is that I camped out for the end of the auction - which was at $760, I dropped a $1666.66 bid, outbidding it just to $780 and there it sat until someone sniped me with 5 seconds (which is totally fair, I snipe all the time - just not this time since I was sitting in front of the computer). The unfortunate part is that the bidding was between me and one other person, so I had pretty good chances of coming out on top, but alas, it wasn't meant to be.

I'm just glad I made the high bidder eat it to the tune of $1600, because if I hadn't been there tonight, they'd have walked away with it for $780.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Dr. Balls

[alxjhnsn]

Once upon a time, there was an auction arranged by Brad Meltzer to raise money to restore Jerry Siegel's childhood home. In that auction, there was a Legion of Super-Heroes piece by Curt Swan. It was the cover to the second issue of the ICG Legion of Super-Heroes Index.

That was MY Legion by my favorite artist. I had to have it. I watched and waited. I had three kids in college at that point and really couldn't afford to spend a lot of money, but man I wanted it. My wife encouraged me so I over time I bid more than any Swan cover of that vintage had ever sold for. It was clear that I was bidding in real time at the end against someone, but I had no clue. Finally, I bid more than I really was comfortable with (with my wife's approval). IIRC, it was $7000. That was a LOT of money for us.

I lost.

The good news was that the art showed up on the CAF site. It had been bought by David Mandel. I've met David once and really enjoyed the visit, but the similarity of our finances is faint.

I had no chance. If I'd known I was bidding against him, I wouldn't have bothered.

I found out from the CAF post, that David helped with the auction and that Mark Waid had brought this piece and one other as potential donations. David was consulted by Brad and he said this one!

So close...

P.S., I've since collected a few Swan Legion pieces that make me happy enough. None is a flashy, but they are quite nice.
 

Edited October 31, 2023 by alxjhnsn

[Rick2you2]

You didn’t really lose the auction. You preserved your capital for something else. Something else, or better, will come along. Nice piece, by the way.

When I really want something, which is rare, I put in a proxy bid of as much as 7 times what I think it is worth (not that high on expensive pieces). In those cases, I do not get sniped. Usually the worst case scenario is an attempted snipe at about 2-3 times the last bid. And when that happens, I love to see the win by a single bid increment.

[Fischb1]

Sorry you lost out on the piece!

When that happens to me (and it happens once or twice a year between eBay, Heritage etc) I ask myself if I really wanted that piece or was it (my own) hype? Did I even know that piece existed a few days/weeks earlier? In this case, with your GA piece, I'm guessing not, right? In that case, realize there will be many more like that and move on.

The one piece that I absolutely needed to have was the What If 32 cover that showed up on eBay in 2018 or so. It was one of my favorite 2 or 3 comics as a kid and the cover showed up! I waited a week until the end of the auction, and with seconds left I upped the bid from 8k to 14k, and then when outbid, I went to 16k (WAYYYYYY more than I could afford at the time, but I had to have it), and still lost! I was super bummed for weeks. 

Years later it showed up at Heritage (last year). I was determined to get it this time. It sat at 18k (or something like that) going into the live auction. All my friends were confident that if I was willing to go to 30k or so, it would be mine. I was so ready. 30k came and went, and when it sat at 46 or 48k (whichever the increment before 50k is) my buddies told me to just leave it be. I couldn't lose out on it again. It had become a mission. I bid 50 (all in, with bp), and won it. I immediately sold a couple other pages to soften the blow, and have had no regrets at all since. It sits behind me on my wall right now.

So, if it's a piece you just happened upon, let the loss go. There will be many others. If it's a piece you've loved since childhood, GO NUTS!

(https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1868226)

Edited October 30, 2023 by Fischb1

[Lago32]

On 10/30/2023 at 11:35 AM, Fischb1 said:

If it's a piece you've loved since childhood, GO NUTS!

 

And people wonder how/why prices escalate in this hobby the way they do lol.

[Fischb1]

On 10/30/2023 at 12:30 PM, Lago32 said:

And people wonder how/why prices escalate in this hobby the way they do lol.

If I can buy what I love and make the money back by selling off other pieces that I don't love (and that have gone up in value over the years), why not? 

[Lago32]

On 10/30/2023 at 12:32 PM, Fischb1 said:

If I can buy what I love and make the money back by selling off other pieces that I don't love (and that have gone up in value over the years), why not? 

That's fine and I have done it too on a couple of "gotta have it" pieces. But when we do that, in other words when we let nostalgia take control and "go nuts" as you put it, often it leads to bidding to irrational unprecedented levels. And again, that is fine except it invariably leads, and has lead to, exponential price jumps in OA as opportunistic dealers and collectors that hold that type of art will see these "go nuts" results as bar-setting. This results in that OA being that much higher for the rest of us which then triggers countless threads here complaining re rising prices. Again, I have done it but I am very aware of what I contributing to when I do it so I try to be selective where/when I do it. Unfortunately for the hobby, it is happening more and more nowadays as there are more collectors chasing less art = major FOMO = more people "going nuts"

[Fischb1]

On 10/30/2023 at 1:18 PM, Lago32 said:

That's fine and I have done it too on a couple of "gotta have it" pieces. But when we do that, in other words when we let nostalgia take control and "go nuts" as you put it, often it leads to bidding to irrational unprecedented levels. And again, that is fine except it invariably leads, and has lead to, exponential price jumps in OA as opportunistic dealers and collectors that hold that type of art will see these "go nuts" results as bar-setting. This results in that OA being that much higher for the rest of us which then triggers countless threads here complaining re rising prices. Again, I have done it but I am very aware of what I contributing to when I do it so I try to be selective where/when I do it. Unfortunately for the hobby, it is happening more and more nowadays as there are more collectors chasing less art = major FOMO = more people "going nuts"

So, if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is: Don't take my own money and buy what I love because it will lead to prices going up in the hobby? Doesn't it sound silly when rephrased like that?

[Lago32]

On 10/30/2023 at 1:20 PM, Fischb1 said:

So, if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is: Don't take my own money and buy what I love because it will lead to prices going up in the hobby? Doesn't it sound silly when rephrased like that?

It is invariably going to happen given what I said re more collectors and less art, its simple economics. Throw in the nostalgia/go-nuts factor and it turns it up to 11. I am just saying that that mentality and the current hobby economics have lead to the prices we see today, which many collectors consistently gripe about (ie. I am getting priced out of the hobby, etc.). Do whatever you want, I am just saying what it leads and has lead to.

[MAR1979]

On 10/30/2023 at 1:18 PM, Lago32 said:

That's fine and I have done it too on a couple of "gotta have it" pieces. But when we do that, in other words when we let nostalgia take control and "go nuts" as you put it, often it leads to bidding to irrational unprecedented levels. And again, that is fine except it invariably leads, and has lead to, exponential price jumps in OA as opportunistic dealers and collectors that hold that type of art will see these "go nuts" results as bar-setting. This results in that OA being that much higher for the rest of us which then triggers countless threads here complaining re rising prices. Again, I have done it but I am very aware of what I contributing to when I do it so I try to be selective where/when I do it. Unfortunately for the hobby, it is happening more and more nowadays as there are more collectors chasing less art = major FOMO = more people "going nuts"

 

On 10/30/2023 at 1:20 PM, Fischb1 said:

So, if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is: Don't take my own money and buy what I love because it will lead to prices going up in the hobby? Doesn't it sound silly when rephrased like that?

All perils of a one-of-a-kind hobby. Not to mention as published goes mostly controlled by egotistical major dealers who have ~9 figures , yes 9, in OA holdings* thus dont care if they make a sale or not.

 

* does not mean liquid for that amount. nor does it mean they would get that amount if any of them dumped more than small amounts into the hobby in a felled swoop. It all similar to how wealth is estimated for say Gates, Musk, Bezos, etc...Simply substitute OA names like Burkey, Moy, Maloof, Snyder, Donnelly, etc

Edited October 30, 2023 by MAR1979

[vodou]

On 10/30/2023 at 11:35 AM, Fischb1 said:

Years later it showed up at Heritage (last year). I was determined to get it this time. It sat at 18k (or something like that) going into the live auction. All my friends were confident that if I was willing to go to 30k or so, it would be mine. I was so ready. 30k came and went, and when it sat at 46 or 48k (whichever the increment before 50k is) my buddies told me to just leave it be. I couldn't lose out on it again. It had become a mission. I bid 50 (all in, with bp), and won it. I immediately sold a couple other pages to soften the blow, and have had no regrets at all since. It sits behind me on my wall right now.

Too bad you missed it on CAF for 32k. That buyer flipped it immediately to Heritage.

EDIT: my mistake, I’m thinking of What If 29 cover, sorry.

Edited October 30, 2023 by vodou
oopsie

[cloud cloddie]

There are definitely some misses I regret not going harder for over the years, with many not being seen since auction. 
On the opposite end, there are times I’ve gone super hard and was surprised I didn’t win - only to see those pieces quickly turn up on dealer sites. In those situations, I’m glad I didn’t bid higher. Yes, I could’ve made the dealers pay up more, but I also could have won at a ridiculously inflated price. 

[Fischb1]

On 10/30/2023 at 1:49 PM, vodou said:

Too bad you missed it on CAF for 32k. That buyer flipped it immediately to Heritage.

EDIT: my mistake, I’m thinking of What If 29 cover, sorry.

The what if 29 cover was purchased at auction (by someone I know), sold to someone else 3 years later, then flipped on Heritage, and now Bill J owns it. Beautiful cover! but a different book as you said. 

[Dr. Balls]

On 10/30/2023 at 9:35 AM, Fischb1 said:

Sorry you lost out on the piece!

When that happens to me (and it happens once or twice a year between eBay, Heritage etc) I ask myself if I really wanted that piece or was it (my own) hype? Did I even know that piece existed a few days/weeks earlier? In this case, with your GA piece, I'm guessing not, right? In that case, realize there will be many more like that and move on.

Yeah, I have to admit: I hyped myself up pretty rapidly. I think I saw that piece - maybe - 12 hours earlier?  I even told myself: if I hadn't been on Ebay today, I'd never even see this one come and go. Which took out the sting a little bit. Getting bested at the last second is a little like the guy walking away with that girl you were going to buy a drink for, and he turns his head and gives you the ol' wink on the way out the door.

On 10/30/2023 at 9:35 AM, Fischb1 said:

So, if it's a piece you just happened upon, let the loss go. There will be many others. If it's a piece you've loved since childhood, GO NUTS!

I've paid a crazy out-of-the-realm price for a particular piece, but there's only really been one that I've come across that I said "Man, I loved that artwork since I first saw it in 1995" - and I spent about a month and a half really trying to gauge the value, where it might go price-wise, interest, etc - I mean, I really dedicated some time trying to get myself ready for the auction end. I was ready. I had my war chest of expendable income, I was sitting at the computer logged in and ready to go. In the last few minutes of the auction, I hiked the front of my pants up and put in my huge-o-mungo final maximum amount I was willing to spend – and the other bidders basically did this to my bid:

And then I lost it to the tune of about 3X more than what I was geared up to spend.

I learned two lessons that day: 1. If I think it's a pretty significant, emotionally-charged piece: so do lots of other people, and 2. Bring a much bigger stack of cash to make a move on a piece like that.

Because you're right - if it's one of those pieces you have to have: just go nuts. I'd rather have gotten the piece and been yelled at by my wife for an hour for spending the money, than to not have it - and like you said, you sell a few things to soften the blow - but in the end you have it. 

[Fischb1]

On 10/30/2023 at 5:28 PM, Dr. Balls said:

Because you're right - if it's one of those pieces you have to have: just go nuts. I'd rather have gotten the piece and been yelled at by my wife for an hour for spending the money, than to not have it - and like you said, you sell a few things to soften the blow - but in the end you have it. 

Exactly. As long as you're not putting your family at any risk, sometimes it's good to figure it out later and have the piece.

[Michael Browning]

On 10/30/2023 at 1:25 PM, Lago32 said:

It is invariably going to happen given what I said re more collectors and less art, its simple economics. Throw in the nostalgia/go-nuts factor and it turns it up to 11. I am just saying that that mentality and the current hobby economics have lead to the prices we see today, which many collectors consistently gripe about (ie. I am getting priced out of the hobby, etc.). Do whatever you want, I am just saying what it leads and has lead to.

Sorry, and with all due respect, but the editor in me must say this: It’s LED, not “lead.”

Lead is a metal.

Now, back to the great conversation you all are having.

[Michael Browning]

“Unfortunately for the hobby…” I love how so many collectors are so selflessly always looking out for our hobby.

Collectors have always gone big on things they want. It’s how fine art paintings sell for millions of dollars. It’s how comics went from being throw-away entertainment to valuable commodities.

I went big on a cover a few years ago. I sold enough art pre-auction to have 3X what I thought I needed and I bid every penny with one bid. I won the cover at twice what it was supposed to sell for, so I was glad I went big. 

You win some, you lose some. It’s life. But, it sucks to finish second especially when you want something that brings you great pleasure and you lose out because you didn’t go big.
 

[vodou]

On 10/30/2023 at 8:31 PM, Michael Browning said:

But, it sucks to finish second especially when you want something that brings you great pleasure and you lose out because you didn’t go big.

However, unless you have truthful insight into the winner’s bidding strategy, 2nd place never knows what it would really take to be first place. Unless your name is Jim, you are an insider with non-public knowledge and are even party to guaranteeing headline making final numbers, and you are the only bidder over a 100k on so many six and seven figure lots 😚

[The Voord]

On 10/30/2023 at 1:42 AM, Dr. Balls said:

Not sure how open people are about discussing their bad beats on auction - but this one was a bummer tonight:

I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to GA artwork, so this will be my second loss on a page being the underbidder. What's a real bummer about this one is that I camped out for the end of the auction - which was at $760, I dropped a $1666.66 bid, outbidding it just to $780 and there it sat until someone sniped me with 5 seconds (which is totally fair, I snipe all the time - just not this time since I was sitting in front of the computer). The unfortunate part is that the bidding was between me and one other person, so I had pretty good chances of coming out on top, but alas, it wasn't meant to be.

I'm just glad I made the high bidder eat it to the tune of $1600, because if I hadn't been there tonight, they'd have walked away with it for $780.

With me, I figure out an absolutely top bid I'm willing to go to and will place that top bid in the closing moments of the auction.  If I lose (it happens), I then walk away in the knowledge that I tried my level best to secure the art, but it was not meant to be . . . and I have no regrets whatsoever.

[Michael Browning]

On 10/31/2023 at 5:00 AM, vodou said:

However, unless you have truthful insight into the winner’s bidding strategy, 2nd place never knows what it would really take to be first place. Unless your name is Jim, you are an insider with non-public knowledge and are even party to guaranteeing headline making final numbers, and you are the only bidder over a 100k on so many six and seven figure lots 😚

None of that really matters, though, unless you want to sit around and agonize about a loss, thinking “what if I’d only bid another $1,000?”, right? If you don’t go big as you can, that question might always linger in your mind.

Not my mind, though, because I go big when I really want something that badly and I’ve never lost doing that.

Yes, I might jack up prices on all future Ambush Bug, US 1, Team America and Crystar covers, but that’s a natural progression in this very young collecting community of ours for all original art. Like Overstreet always told collectors, your comics increase in value every year. It’s the same with OA.

I will take the blame for setting the bar high on those Ambush Bug covers, so anyone who goes after the next one needs to know I always go big on those and you’d better bid as high as you can to beat me. 😉